[Blade Runner]

I've been watching quite a bit of shoot interviews over the years and Cornette has never shyed away from taking shots at Vince Russo, crediting him for contributing to the downfall of professional wrestling and killing the sport by presenting a salacious product. He always seems to have a strong hatred for Vince on a personal level to the point where it's become somewhat of a joke

Obviously Russo's vision for WWF in late 1996 wasn't shared by Cornette, and Cornette was apparently demoted from the writing team when McMahon favored Russo's vision over Cornette's traditional way of booking wrestling. Fast forward 2 years later and Russo's vision proved to be successful -- the WWF reached record high ratings which must've added insult to injury on Cornette. He's apparently bitter at Russo for other things and partly blames him for the death of Owen Hart

My question is this -- when looking at it objectively, who do you think is in the wrong and who's in the right? Russo rarely ever takes jabs at Cornette but he's said many times that he doesn't understand where the anymosity comes from. So what conclusions have you guys come up with?

I love listening to Cornette rant, but somehow I sympathise with Russo more and the numbers don't lie -- at WWF's peak, it was Russo and Ferrera writing the shows every week




edit: wrong section, wanted to post this in Classic

 

[304418]

I think that Cornette's animosity towards Russo stems from Russo’s approach to wrestling as a whole and that Cornette lost his job in both WWE and TNA because of Russo, according to him and a few others.

To answer the question:

Neither are really wrong. They’re both a product of their times; Cornette when wrestling was “real,” and Russo when ratings were the most important things that mattered. Both are knowledgeable about the business and are right on a lot of things, but I also think that wrestling has evolved in the last few years and has passed them both by. Their respective approaches to wrestling are currently being done better by other people and promotions in a more modern way.

 

[CretinHop138]

Same bullshit from different directions, wrestling needs new voices and new ideas, not from the same vets who think they know how to run a show or promotion.

 

[Even Flow]

Moved to Classic Wrestling.

 

[Jupiter Jack Daniels]

Same bullshit from different directions, wrestling needs new voices and new ideas, not from the same vets who think they know how to run a show or promotion.

But in the context of their heat, Russo was the new voice, with new ideas. Cornette relied on how things used to be and interpreted that into how they should be.

Their feud isn't over anything recent. For the most part, it's based on something that happened nearly 20 years ago, something Cornette has never let go.





On topic and even though I don't particularly care for either, I always felt Russo was in the right.

Cornette's comments on various aspects of the business over the years presents him as someone that doesn't care about the state of the business, as long as it's done a certain way. His method was to continue presenting this as real competition, with believable qualities, despite society heading in a direction where that's impossible. To Russo's credit, he embraced it.

Wrestling (WWF, specifically) was in a downward spiral prior to Russo. And like Cornette, he opted for a reality based product but online Cornette, a product based on a reality beyond wrestling. The pop culture references, the idea to do anything for the sake of selling tickets. But more importantly, a product with stories & characters that weren't outdated or too complex for fans to understand. Russo was smart enough to accept that Wrestler A vs. Wrestler B meant nothing without the compelling stories that would compliment and sell it. For better or worse, he changed the business.

Cornette was scared of change because that meant minds like him would no longer have a place in the business and be viewed as nothing more than "old-timers" who just don't get the new generation. And with Cornette's views on life, in general, it's clear that he doesn't get the new generation. If he had it his way, wrestling would be restricted to the demographic that still pays to see him at these conventions in the backwoods of North Carolina. And considering how much those events draw, it's safe to say that the business would practically be dead.

Both men have their flaws and Cornette's biggest is thinking what worked in the 70s & 80s would work forever. Comments about how the business isn't drawing because the boys are happily married and stopped fucking the rats. Cornette was definitely more committed to the business than Russo but too committed to allow the business to grow and change with society.

 

[KO Bossy]

My question is this -- when looking at it objectively, who do you think is in the wrong and who's in the right? Russo rarely ever takes jabs at Cornette but he's said many times that he doesn't understand where the anymosity comes from. So what conclusions have you guys come up with?

Its really not a matter of right and wrong, so much as it is polar opposite viewpoints on how to run a wrestling company and book wrestling.

Cornette favored the much more classic approach. He valued work rate, promo cutting ability, longer matches and a focus on actual wrestling that established it almost like a real sport. Russo, on the other hand, devalued actual wrestling in favor of crash television. Matches went about 2 minutes before ending in a DQ. A lot of the guys on the roster had these crazy, outlandish and at times stereotypical bordering racist characters. While a lot of angles were considered really edgy, a lot of them were very trashy and low brow as well. In short, it went against everything that Cornette advocated. It took his vision of what wrestling should be and turned it into, what Cornette thought, was a complete joke. Cornette himself has stated many times that he and Vince McMahon as well don't see eye to eye in what they want. However, in the most famous shoot he did, Cornette said "chocolate/vanilla? Well which one is the best?" He didn't like Vince McMahon's chocolate version of wrestling, but since people have different tastes, as long as he got his vanilla, he could live with it.

I think that in Cornette's mind, the downfall of wrestling deserves to be placed on Russo's shoulders. He accuses Russo of taking a wrestling product and turning it into a cheap B movie full of tasteless garbage that will alienate a lot of the fans. He talked about, for example, the Terri Runnels miscarriage and how that might be upsetting for some people, and at what cost? Did it sell a ticket or add viewers? No, it was tasteless for the sake of tasteless. I believe he also has a big problem with, metaphorically speaking, throwing out everything including the kitchen sink on every single show to the point that now in wrestling, we feel like we've seen basically everything. Cornette has a gigantic problem with how Russo went to WCW and constantly exposed the business as being fake, and that everything was scripted. Again, Cornette is an old school guy. When in front of a camera and fans, its all 100% real, and seeing Russo go out there and do shit like "Goldberg refuses to follow the script" no doubt caused him to pop a blood vessel in his brain.

Cornette also has a big problem with Russo personally. He took extreme offense to Russo and Ferrara going to WCW and doing the whole Oklahoma thing to mock Jim Ross. Cornette respects Ross a great deal, calling him the best in the business, and also talked about how Russo tried to get JR off camera because he thought he was too southern and nobody wanted to see someone with Bell's Palsy who looked afflicted. Cornette wanted to throttle him for that. Cornette also accused Russo of being unprofessional, citing how Russo called Vince McMahon and told him he was leaving to go to WCW instead of going in to meet with him because Russo was a gutless coward.

Now, you can't argue with results. For the time, Russo had a lot of success in WWF. And there are positive aspects to Russo, like his caring about the mid card and wanting to give an identity to everyone on the roster. At the same time, you have to look at the results in WCW in 2000 and how the whole show completely bombed, which a good portion of the blame can be attributed to Russo and his laughably stupid storylines and bad decisions. Then he went to TNA. Now when TNA was just getting off the ground, Jerry Jarrett, who was helping Jeff fund TNA, said 2 things. First was "Jeff, do NOT just hire everyone from WCW." Well, Jeff did. Second, "non wrestling people trying to run a wrestling company is bound to fail." Sure enough, Jeff let Dixie Carter in and Jerry wanted to quit right there. There was a great interview Bryan Alvarez did with Jerry about 5ish years ago that I heard all of this from, so I'm not just making shit up. Anyway, the point is that Jeff hired all the goofballs from WCW, including Russo to write the show since they were buddies. Well, sure enough TNA became the new WCW, and that largely hindered them. They had great workers, the X-Division was flourishing and sadly, Vince Russo was writing the show. He was an on screen character again, we had great ideas like the big heel group Sports Entertainment Xtreme (SEX, get it? Not funny), gimmicks galore and nonsensical bullshit. And finally when Spike told Dixie to give him the boot, she secretly kept him on the payroll as a consultant, and when it got exposed (via Russo accidentally sending an email to Mike Johnson of PWInsider), Spike terminated their dealings with TNA. So essentially, Russo got TNA kicked off of network TV.

Russo with a McMahon filter worked. Unfiltered Russo didn't work. Unfortunately, we got a lot more unfiltered Russo in wrestling and it did a lot of harm, pretty much fucking over 2 major companies. At times, I think Cornette is a bit harsh on Russo, but...as I said, results don't lie.

 

[KO Bossy]

Both men have their flaws and Cornette's biggest is thinking what worked in the 70s & 80s would work forever. Comments about how the business isn't drawing because the boys are happily married and stopped fucking the rats. Cornette was definitely more committed to the business than Russo but too committed to allow the business to grow and change with society.

Which is funny because a lot of people have accused Russo of basically the same problem. In the 2010s, he was convinced the shit that worked in 1998 was still going to work over a decade later. And it didn't. If anything, fans these days seem to want higher work rate, albeit with a proper build and actual purpose to the match. So the best of both worlds.

Great post, by the way.

 

[Jupiter Jack Daniels]

Which is funny because a lot of people have accused Russo of basically the same problem. In the 2010s, he was convinced the shit that worked in 1998 was still going to work over a decade later. And it didn't. If anything, fans these days seem to want higher work rate, albeit with a proper build and actual purpose to the match. So the best of both worlds.

Great post, by the way.

You right.

It's like Cornette just didn't want to change. In the case of Russo, he didn't know how to change. In that sense, Russo is far worse because there's no excuse for being in a position of power and not knowing what to do besides what you already did.

 

[Crazy Jim Films]

Also, while people try to make it seem like Russo was the one constantly holding his hands up while Cornette punched him like a bully, Vince did his share of knocking as well when he was the one with clout. He made it a point to paint Cornette as being completely out of touch with the wrestling product.

 

[J0e th0rnton]

Its really not a matter of right and wrong, so much as it is polar opposite viewpoints on how to run a wrestling company and book wrestling.

Cornette favored the much more classic approach. He valued work rate, promo cutting ability, longer matches and a focus on actual wrestling that established it almost like a real sport. Russo, on the other hand, devalued actual wrestling in favor of crash television. Matches went about 2 minutes before ending in a DQ. A lot of the guys on the roster had these crazy, outlandish and at times stereotypical bordering racist characters. While a lot of angles were considered really edgy, a lot of them were very trashy and low brow as well. In short, it went against everything that Cornette advocated. It took his vision of what wrestling should be and turned it into, what Cornette thought, was a complete joke. Cornette himself has stated many times that he and Vince McMahon as well don't see eye to eye in what they want. However, in the most famous shoot he did, Cornette said "chocolate/vanilla? Well which one is the best?" He didn't like Vince McMahon's chocolate version of wrestling, but since people have different tastes, as long as he got his vanilla, he could live with it.

I think that in Cornette's mind, the downfall of wrestling deserves to be placed on Russo's shoulders. He accuses Russo of taking a wrestling product and turning it into a cheap B movie full of tasteless garbage that will alienate a lot of the fans. He talked about, for example, the Terri Runnels miscarriage and how that might be upsetting for some people, and at what cost? Did it sell a ticket or add viewers? No, it was tasteless for the sake of tasteless. I believe he also has a big problem with, metaphorically speaking, throwing out everything including the kitchen sink on every single show to the point that now in wrestling, we feel like we've seen basically everything. Cornette has a gigantic problem with how Russo went to WCW and constantly exposed the business as being fake, and that everything was scripted. Again, Cornette is an old school guy. When in front of a camera and fans, its all 100% real, and seeing Russo go out there and do shit like "Goldberg refuses to follow the script" no doubt caused him to pop a blood vessel in his brain.

Cornette also has a big problem with Russo personally. He took extreme offense to Russo and Ferrara going to WCW and doing the whole Oklahoma thing to mock Jim Ross. Cornette respects Ross a great deal, calling him the best in the business, and also talked about how Russo tried to get JR off camera because he thought he was too southern and nobody wanted to see someone with Bell's Palsy who looked afflicted. Cornette wanted to throttle him for that. Cornette also accused Russo of being unprofessional, citing how Russo called Vince McMahon and told him he was leaving to go to WCW instead of going in to meet with him because Russo was a gutless coward.

Now, you can't argue with results. For the time, Russo had a lot of success in WWF. And there are positive aspects to Russo, like his caring about the mid card and wanting to give an identity to everyone on the roster. At the same time, you have to look at the results in WCW in 2000 and how the whole show completely bombed, which a good portion of the blame can be attributed to Russo and his laughably stupid storylines and bad decisions. Then he went to TNA. Now when TNA was just getting off the ground, Jerry Jarrett, who was helping Jeff fund TNA, said 2 things. First was "Jeff, do NOT just hire everyone from WCW." Well, Jeff did. Second, "non wrestling people trying to run a wrestling company is bound to fail." Sure enough, Jeff let Dixie Carter in and Jerry wanted to quit right there. There was a great interview Bryan Alvarez did with Jerry about 5ish years ago that I heard all of this from, so I'm not just making shit up. Anyway, the point is that Jeff hired all the goofballs from WCW, including Russo to write the show since they were buddies. Well, sure enough TNA became the new WCW, and that largely hindered them. They had great workers, the X-Division was flourishing and sadly, Vince Russo was writing the show. He was an on screen character again, we had great ideas like the big heel group Sports Entertainment Xtreme (SEX, get it? Not funny), gimmicks galore and nonsensical bullshit. And finally when Spike told Dixie to give him the boot, she secretly kept him on the payroll as a consultant, and when it got exposed (via Russo accidentally sending an email to Mike Johnson of PWInsider), Spike terminated their dealings with TNA. So essentially, Russo got TNA kicked off of network TV.

Russo with a McMahon filter worked. Unfiltered Russo didn't work. Unfortunately, we got a lot more unfiltered Russo in wrestling and it did a lot of harm, pretty much fucking over 2 major companies. At times, I think Cornette is a bit harsh on Russo, but...as I said, results don't lie.

Wonderful post and right on the money.

Russo's ideas were often outlandish, tasteless and very often stupid. However occasionally a diamond in the rough that fit into the situation. Trying to think of Russo ideas I heard on podcasts from wrestlers(not Russo since he says he thought of everything good)

Stone Cold driving the cement truck in and filling Mcmahon's corvette was perfect an example of a good Russo idea. I laughed my arse off back then at some of those thing.(Why did Russo love destroying expensive things with Monster trucks and cement?). The week before that, attacking Mcmahon in the hospital was hilarious.

On the lukewarm side, you had stuff like Stone Cold pulling a gun and making McMahon piss himself.....I was moderately entertained at the time, but it was stupid.

On the stupid tasteless side, Hawk alcoholic jealous of Droz taking his spot with Animal goes up the tron to commit suicide, Droz climbs up and pushes him off? WTF?

And there are worse examples, but those were the ones I thought of.

Most wrestlers of note scoff when they heard Russo claimed he was the guy who started the attitude era and saved WWE, not just Cornette. The only wrestlers who generally defend him were mid carders and bottom level guys he gave a push to. Most agree he would have tons of stupid ideas and Vince McMahon would sift through them and occasionally use a few. I also hated how the belts pretty much lost meaning as they changed hands so often.

Given control of WCW, he took over a sinking ship and made the hole 10x bigger. He pretty much sunk TNA as well.

Cornette has his own problems, as he is way too old fashioned and wanted to do little to no storylines and tons of ringwork, and keep it like the old territories entertaining small places.

McMahon was always able to find the happy medium. Well, by always I mean before wrestling turned into what it is today.

 

[AT&T Stadium]

Just look at how Cornette booked ROH in the late 2000's-2011 (maybe 2012). He didn't know how to adapt so Vince cut his ass in favor of another Vince because he knew how to have new ideas instead of "southern rasslin'". Cornette = jelly.

 

[bipartisan101]

Neither are necessarily wrong. Both of their approaches to the wrestling product work when done correctly.

 

[theboxingfan]

Cornette seems really bitter about certain things. Vince McMahon for example.

Regarding Vince Russo he is totally correct. Everything he has said has turned out to be true.

Jim has vastly superior knowledge about wrestling, can book for an extended period, Russo is just a hot shotter.

Cornette > Russo.

 

[The5150]

2 guys with 2 different styles of Wrestling.

 

[theboxingfan]

2 guys with 2 different styles of Wrestling.

Russo doesn't do wrestling. He does sports entertainment, soap opera.

 

[Vespertine]

Cornette is old fashioned, but he was doing some CRAZY shit in SMW before the Attiude Era was even a thought. I mean...

I think a lot of people forget that

 

[theboxingfan]

That New Jack visiting his neighbourhood video.

Lmao.

 

[J0e th0rnton]

Cornette is old fashioned, but he was doing some CRAZY shit in SMW before the Attiude Era was even a thought. I mean...

I think a lot of people forget that

He definitely was. Cornette understood the power of promo's and vignettes, angle building and payoff and wrestling. His old fashioned approach by the mid/late 90's however clashed with Russo's crash TV.

Russo's problem was more his dislike of "fake Wrestling" and enjoying the non-wrestling parts of the show too much. He admitted he enjoyed things like Jannetty getting thrown through the glass window by Micheals more than the payoff matches that came after a buildup like that, and wanted to do shows with nothing but stuff like that.

And he did. But it was a trainwreck. You can't have angles that you don't follow up every episode and have every match decided by a run in. Mind you WCW was already overdoing that crap before Russo, but he took the stupid to another level. There was no coherent storyline to follow under Russo that made you want to tune in for the payoff because there was never a payoff. The man had no ability to follow up his ideas

Fortunately, McMahon was a very good guy to blend the ideas of his creative usually. Occasionally, he let some dumb stuff slip through the cracks.

 

[The RainMaker]

I see people writing like ten paragraphs, when a simple Cornette > Russo will do.

 

[DJHJR86]

It's just two stubborn guys who both believe their approach to booking (polar opposites) are the correct way to move forward. Neither are necessarily wrong. I think it comes down to a matter of taste.