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Discussion Starter · #2,521 ·
Edge made an IG post talking about his year. He said the trilogy with Rollins will hold a special place in his heart even when he's retired. Pretty high praise:

http://instagr.am/p/CX9CGm9L3Fi/
 

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I'll take you down the only road I've ever been do
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Discussion Starter · #2,523 ·
Sucks that Seth has Covid. Hope he (and Becky, IF she has it) rests up and gets better. He made it this far without getting it, too. Ugh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,524 ·
WWE.Com did their Top 25 Matches of the Year, and Rollins/Edge's Hell in a Cell Match from Crown Jewel is ranked #1 to the surprise of no one. Best match of the year hands down. Seth has 5 matches in total on the list. What a great year for him:

 

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Discussion Starter · #2,525 ·
LOVED that main event tonight. That was a big boy match tonight, and I don't mean in terms of height/weight, but that it was really hard-hitting, intense as fuck, with a really great crowd and atmosphere that was hot for everything everyone did in that match. First match in WWE that has had that big match feel in along time. Within the first few minutes of the match, it was already the MOTN. A near 5 star match for sure.

Looking forward to Raw going forward. I like Big E as a person and he's a decent wrestler, but just never really saw him as World Champion. I'm not known for being Brock's biggest fan on here, but I like this new edgy babyface character alot more than his previous character. Find him to be alot more entertaining because this version of Brock shows alot more personality than heel Brock did.

Looking forward to the next chapter of Rollins/Owens. Don't know if they're going to continue being a 'team' or not, but it's certainly interesting and they have great chemistry with eachother on the same side as we've seen recently. If they feud with RK-Bro and become tag champions, that is cool by me. That feud and match has alot of potential. Either way, Raw is even more loaded now than it was right after the draft, or even just 24 hours ago. There really aren't too many weak spots on the Raw roster now at all. It's kinda crazy when you look at it. And they're still getting Alexa back soon, and one of Bayley/Asuka. Jesus. What a roster.
 

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Rollins and Owens did surprisingly good tonight as partners. I expect more of this. Theyll prob talk about that spot where Lashley hit Rollins and he accidentally landed on Owens' pin. Lashley was definitely expected to win the match but i enjoyed Owens' spots and Rollins' selling & powerbomb.
https://twitter.com/TheLouisDangoor/status/1477988224165416968?s=20
 

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So at this point I would guess it's Rollins & Owens vs. RKBro for the Tag Belts at Mania, assuming RKBro doesn't implode by then.

If that's the case, I'm down for that. Seth & KO have good comedic chemistry and KO's never been a Tag Champion before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,528 ·
Rollins and Owens have alot better chemistry than I thought they would, I must admit. The Day 1 match and last night's match were both fantastic matches, especially the Day 1 match. IF they go forward with the tag team idea, I can easily see them winning the tag titles at WM, which would be cool.
 

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It's not his time.
He could be champion if WWE does Rollins vs Reigns itf.
But right now WWE has Lesnar/Lashley/Reigns
After Owens & Rollins team up he should move to Smackdown to challenge Reigns.

In an article for Sports Illustrated, Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter wrote that original plans called for Rollins to win a Fatal 4-Way that also included Big E, Kevin Owens and Bobby Lashley.

Instead, Brock Lesnar was added to the match to make it a Fatal 5-Way after his Universal Championship bout was called off, and Lesnar was victorious, making him the new WWE champion.

It was a surprising result given that Lesnar wasn't supposed to be in the match in the first place and because he was in the midst of a rivalry with Reigns on SmackDown.

Lesnar said he would be on SmackDown this week, and it stands to reason that it could be a way of tying up loose ends so The Beast Incarnate can focus on being Raw's top champ leading up to WrestleMania.

In the wake of Lesnar's win, Lashley won a Fatal 4-Way on Raw against Big E, Rollins and Owens, setting the stage for a Lesnar vs. Lashley dream match at Royal Rumble.

It is unclear where that leaves Rollins with regard to WrestleMania, although it stands to reason that he will take part in the men's Royal Rumble match.


Rollins doesn't figure to win, though, unless WWE has plans to move him to SmackDown to challenge Reigns, as that would be a fresher matchup than Rollins vs. Lesnar.


Rollins WWE Title Plans Nixed; Edge Talks Teaming with Beth; AEW Dream Signing Teased
 

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I'll take you down the only road I've ever been do
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Discussion Starter · #2,530 ·
It's not his time.
He could be champion if WWE does Rollins vs Reigns itf.
But right now WWE has Lesnar/Lashley/Reigns
After Owens & Rollins team up he should move to Smackdown to challenge Reigns.

In an article for Sports Illustrated, Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter wrote that original plans called for Rollins to win a Fatal 4-Way that also included Big E, Kevin Owens and Bobby Lashley.

Instead, Brock Lesnar was added to the match to make it a Fatal 5-Way after his Universal Championship bout was called off, and Lesnar was victorious, making him the new WWE champion.

It was a surprising result given that Lesnar wasn't supposed to be in the match in the first place and because he was in the midst of a rivalry with Reigns on SmackDown.

Lesnar said he would be on SmackDown this week, and it stands to reason that it could be a way of tying up loose ends so The Beast Incarnate can focus on being Raw's top champ leading up to WrestleMania.

In the wake of Lesnar's win, Lashley won a Fatal 4-Way on Raw against Big E, Rollins and Owens, setting the stage for a Lesnar vs. Lashley dream match at Royal Rumble.

It is unclear where that leaves Rollins with regard to WrestleMania, although it stands to reason that he will take part in the men's Royal Rumble match.


Rollins doesn't figure to win, though, unless WWE has plans to move him to SmackDown to challenge Reigns, as that would be a fresher matchup than Rollins vs. Lesnar.


Rollins WWE Title Plans Nixed; Edge Talks Teaming with Beth; AEW Dream Signing Teased
Not sure I buy that Seth was going to win when I've seen people post a tweet that WWE deleted that they had set up saying Big E retained. Who knows, really.

I will say this, though. Not sure it really pays to be Champion in wrestling today. When you're World Champion today, everyone nit-picks every segment/match/promo and you get entirely blamed for the ratings. Seth has won both World Titles twice each. If he hadn't won one of those titles yet, it would be different. But he has. Let him continue to perform every week and get praised and others blamed for shit. Obviously, at some point in the future, he will win one of the World Titles again. But I don't see the rush. The prestige of the titles these days isn't exactly what it once was, either.
 

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Not sure I buy that Seth was going to win when I've seen people post a tweet that WWE deleted that they had set up saying Big E retained. Who knows, really.

I will say this, though. Not sure it really pays to be Champion in wrestling today. When you're World Champion today, everyone nit-picks every segment/match/promo and you get entirely blamed for the ratings. Seth has won both World Titles twice each. If he hadn't won one of those titles yet, it would be different. But he has. Let him continue to perform every week and get praised and others blamed for shit. Obviously, at some point in the future, he will win one of the World Titles again. But I don't see the rush. The prestige of the titles these days isn't exactly what it once was, either.
Maybe he doesnt need the reign for now. I would settle for now a constant performance week after week.
 

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Not sure it really pays to be Champion in wrestling today.
You can say that again. Even viewers who push for someone to be champion often complain about and/or turn on that same performer shortly after they get the belt. And often, wrestlers get booked better without the belt(s) than with it, given the company's tendency to beat champions in non-title matches to progress feuds and set up title defenses. As long as a performer is on TV regularly and is booked relatively strongly (winning ~65+ percent of their matches), they're in a good spot, by WWE standards, especially when they've already held a world title, and are fully-established and heavily featured.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,533 ·
You can say that again. Even viewers who push for someone to be champion often complain about and/or turn on that same performer shortly after they get the belt. And often, wrestlers get booked better without the belt(s) than with it, given the company's tendency to beat champions in non-title matches to progress feuds and set up title defenses. As long as a performer is on TV regularly and is booked relatively strongly (winning ~65+ percent of their matches), they're in a good spot, by WWE standards, especially when they've already held a world title, and are fully-established and heavily featured.
Exactly. 100% you nailed it. That's why as much as I'm a fan of Rollins, you don't see me on here whining for him to win the title or complaining that he didn't win on Day 1 or on Raw, or that he hasn't been Champion since late 2019. He's better off without it. It's sad that that's how it is, but we have to Vince to thank for that.
 

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Vince, sure, but also supremely fickle "fans".

My only concern with Big E is that he not fall down the card, because they need as many full-time people in the upper-midcard-to-main-event scene as they can get these days. The title was simply a prop to better establish him. So they shouldn't have had him losing by pinfall or in tag matches (where his partners get pinned) so much, and KO probably should've taken the pin at Day 1, because he's upper-midcard teflon at this point. Regardless, I think a lot of us figure they'll probably circle back to Big E and Lashley for the title at Mania (with an angry E possibly even winning the Rumble), so we'll see where it goes. Lesnar's win didn't spike the ratings enough coming out of the PLE (Premium Live Event) to suggest that any one performer will significantly turn the tide holding that belt. And we should see more stabilization in the 1.7-1.85 range once football's over, regardless of who's champ.

Obviously, Rollins and KO vs RKBro seems like the play for Mania, and that should be a fun program, as they're all very good workers who can do comedy when called upon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,535 ·
Vince, sure, but also supremely fickle "fans".

My only concern with Big E is that he not fall down the card, because they need as many full-time people in the upper-midcard-to-main-event scene as they can get these days. The title was simply a prop to better establish him. So they shouldn't have had him losing by pinfall or in tag matches (where his partners get pinned) so much, and KO probably should've taken the pin at Day 1, because he's upper-midcard teflon at this point. Regardless, I think a lot of us figure they'll probably circle back to Big E and Lashley for the title at Mania (with an angry E possibly even winning the Rumble), so we'll see where it goes. Lesnar's win didn't spike the ratings enough coming out of the PLE (Premium Live Event) to suggest that any one performer will significantly turn the tide holding that belt. And we should see more stabilization in the 1.7-1.85 range once football's over, regardless of who's champ.

Obviously, Rollins and KO vs RKBro seems like the play for Mania, and that should be a fun program, as they're all very good workers who can do comedy when called upon.

I am interested to see where they go with the title at WM. I'm not 100% sold on anything yet. Big E/Lashley seems extremely light as far as star-power goes for the WWE Title at WM. Especially one being held in a 100K+ Stadium. We shall see.

If nothing else, it's cool that it's not extremely predictable now that we're this close to WM. Usually, both title matches for WM are pretty easy to see when we're in January. Well, here we are entering the 2nd week of January in a day or two, and the WWE Title match is very match up for grabs right now as far as BOTH guys in the match. We're not sure who the Champion will be walking into WM, and we're certainly not sure who the challenger will be. That's a great thing for the WWE Title/RAW and for the fans. Whereas on SD, we know who the Champion will be walking into WM which is extremely predictable and part of the reason SD is a ghost-town these days.
 

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I think they may have wanted to play the sympathy card with Big E losing the title, and getting angry, and upping his intensity, to win it back. The chase is virtually always more compelling for viewers than a babyface holding the title going into Mania, no matter who it is. And more people will see it, with football over.

To be honest, I actually WANT Roman to work Goldberg -- who apparently only has one match left on his current contract, and needs shoulder surgery -- at the Rumble or in Saudi, so that it takes Lashley vs Goldberg off the table for Mania (the worst timeline, IMO). Re: Big E vs Lashley, they could just open Night 1 with that match (a big women's match could close Night 1), and a feel-good moment to get the crowd hyped. Though, in a vacuum, Lashley going over Drew in the opener last year was probably the right call (as Lashley had just won the title for the first time), it did sort of take the air out of the crowd, who were clearly pulling for Drew. I mean, they might do Lashley vs Cena, or Big E vs Cena, but there's not a whole lot of suspense there as to the winner. (I also think there's a chance that Cena works Austin Theory in an undercard match, though my gut actually says it'll be Theory vs Shane McMahon, given the amount of time Vince has devoted to Theory onscreen, as almost a father-figure.)

My only pause w/r/t Seth and KO working RKBro is that it ties up multiple top talents in one match, on a two-night show. They might just end up being two singles matches, with the partners facing each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,537 ·
I'm still not sure what I see the WWE Title match at WM being. The more I think about it, the more strange it seems to me for them to immediately go back to Big E as Champion. He was just Champ for the past several months. Even if the run was uber-successful, I'd still find it strange that they immediately go back to it. The fact that it wasn't, makes me think that maybe they won't. However, this is the worst version of Vince McMahon in his long, illustrious career, so I think everything is on the table. Like I said earlier, no matter what direction they go in, at least it's unpredictable. It is WM season, so that is nice.

Either way, I think Seth is definitely winning the title at some point this year. Maybe or maybe not WM, but definitely sometime this year. He's been one of the most over and best performers for awhile now. I don't know when, but I'd be pretty surprised if it's not sometime in 2022. We shall see.
 

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They took the title off Drew for three weeks in 2020, only to put it back on him in a rematch with the same person. Sometimes they just want to solidify their champions with wins on a larger scale (in the case of Drew, it was an empty Performance Center vs a ThunderDome). In the case of Big E, it's hard, when you start a title reign as a babyface, with a MitB cash-in on a already-weakened opponent, where the win doesn't feel as earned.

Anyways, yes, I could certainly see Rollins winning the title at some point in 2022. But I think he should stay a heel, because crowds tend to turn on him whenever he's a face champion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2,539 ·
They took the title off Drew for three weeks in 2020, only to put it back on him in a rematch with the same person. Sometimes they just want to solidify their champions with wins on a larger scale (in the case of Drew, it was an empty Performance Center vs a ThunderDome). In the case of Big E, it's hard, when you start a title reign as a babyface, with a MitB cash-in on a already-weakened opponent, where the win doesn't feel as earned.

Anyways, yes, I could certainly see Rollins winning the title at some point in 2022. But I think he should stay a heel, because crowds tend to turn on him whenever he's a face champion.
He'll definitely be a heel. But they only turned on him once as Champion (2019) and that was mostly due to opening up his mouth in a couple online interviews he did while Champion. Either way, he's probably gonna be a heel for awhile, thankfully. Because, fickle fans, or not, Vince can't book babyfaces for shit these days.
 

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I think a lot of the babyface issue has to do with the average wrestling fan relating more easily to characters that are assholes, to be honest (heh). It's like, if they write a wrestler as a genuinely good and noble person, they get labelled "bland", whereas if they have some edge to them, a lot of viewers are like, "Uh, they're acting like a heel, derp-derp."

I think most of the creative issues simply lie in them not protecting enough performers in the win-loss column, heel or face. It just seems more damaging when it's a face, because heels are more easily able to navigate being silly, or looking dumb at times (losing via distraction roll-up, etc.).
 
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