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The Dissection of Shawn Michaels

10096 Views 21 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  TelkEvolon
The collective marking for Shawn Michaels had already reached unknown
levels when HBK retired and then again rose when he was nominated for
the HOF. This marking out has to make way to a dissection of
the work, the contribution and the character of Shawn Michaels.
We have heard enough about feud of the year and match of the year.

Here is a rough draft of some valid points to be made about HBK:

1) Michaels is a drug addict.
Nobody, not even Vince McMahon, will tell you anything else than
that Michaels snorted the equivalent of an iceberg. Plus the
pills and booze and whatnot. His work deteriorated to a point
he had problems finding the ring.
2) Michaels has exposed the business.
Curtain Call. Nuff said. It was a desaster and Trips had to apologize
to every man in the locker room back then.
3) Michaels undercuts people.
Ask Hurricane Helms. Michaels used his power to keep others down.
Ask Vader. Ask the Hitman.
4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Ask Jim Cornette. Ask the Hitman. It is a well known fact that
Michaels helped Vince screw Bret so he had not to put him over.
Most other wrestlers will tell you they will put over a chair
if it makes sense for the business. Michaels would not even put
over the Excellence of Execution and told him so.
5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
Nobody will argue with this. It was the whole purpose of the Kliq.
6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
When he was on- he was on. But Michaels had a tendency to a flippy
floppy style. Sometimes it went too far to the point the psychology
was totally off.
7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
Yes, he always oversold. But it came to a match at Summer Slam 2005
vs Hulk Hogan that was such a desaster it made me puke into my mouth.
That match is my definiton of minus 5 Stars. Go watch it, I dare you.

I am prepared to take the sea of red ink coming into my cp for this
thread because mindless HBK marks will red-rep me in legion. I don´t
care. There has to be a place to discuss the dark side of the
Showstopper as well. Feel free to comment on this topic- the way
to the HBK appreciation night is on the other floor.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

· There is no duty we so much underrate as... being
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He's a legend but everything you write is irrefutable. He's a complicated man, and, in a way, throughout his entire wrestling career, was almost like two different men. Pointing out his notable flaws does not "dissect" him to me, and seems to be fair game even among most of his more level-headed admirers and fans.
 

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Two thumbs up for me on the post. I did not "mark out" when he was announced for the WWE HOF (even if it is a joke). And the only reason I marked for him leaving is because it was time and I hated his last run so I celebrated and said "good riddance Shawn".

You made great points and I agree with them.

I would add that he claims to be "born again" and then insinuated that he superkicked a child on TV. Now, I'm not super religious, but I'm pretty sure child abuse is not encouraged by the church.
 

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With regards to all of the OPs points about Michael's backstage behaviour, whats the point harping on about those things if all you ever have is second hand info about what happened?

Ok so his drug use and curtain call incident are irrefutable, but with regards to holding people down etc, none of us really know how those things went down so whats the point in speculating?

And guess what? Half your favourite musicians, actors, artists etc all have drug habits that probably dwarf Michaels'. Doesn't make him the devil that he chose to take drugs along with half the other guys in his profession.



Lets say all those things about Shawn are 100% true only worse - does that mean he doesn't deserve the hall of fame for his arguably untouchable ring work over 20 years?
 

· Shitting On The Bastards Below
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The collective marking for Shawn Michaels had already reached unknown
levels when HBK retired and then again rose when he was nominated for
the HOF. This marking out has to make way to a dissection of
the work, the contribution and the character of Shawn Michaels.
We have heard enough about feud of the year and match of the year.

Here is a rough draft of some valid points to be made about HBK:

1) Michaels is a drug addict.
Nobody, not even Vince McMahon, will tell you anything else than
that Michaels snorted the equivalent of an iceberg. Plus the
pills and booze and whatnot. His work deteriorated to a point
he had problems finding the ring.
2) Michaels has exposed the business.
Curtain Call. Nuff said. It was a desaster and Trips had to apologize
to every man in the locker room back then.
3) Michaels undercuts people.
Ask Hurricane Helms. Michaels used his power to keep others down.
Ask Vader. Ask the Hitman.
4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Ask Jim Cornette. Ask the Hitman. It is a well known fact that
Michaels helped Vince screw Bret so he had not to put him over.
Most other wrestlers will tell you they will put over a chair
if it makes sense for the business. Michaels would not even put
over the Excellence of Execution and told him so.
5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
Nobody will argue with this. It was the whole purpose of the Kliq.
6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
When he was on- he was on. But Michaels had a tendency to a flippy
floppy style. Sometimes it went too far to the point the psychology
was totally off.
7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
Yes, he always oversold. But it came to a match at Summer Slam 2005
vs Hulk Hogan that was such a desaster it made me puke into my mouth.
That match is my definiton of minus 5 Stars. Go watch it, I dare you
.

I am prepared to take the sea of red ink coming into my cp for this
thread because mindless HBK marks will red-rep me in legion. I don´t
care. There has to be a place to discuss the dark side of the
Showstopper as well. Feel free to comment on this topic- the way
to the HBK appreciation night is on the other floor.
he did that to mock hogan
 

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Let's dissect your post shall we?

"1) Michaels is a drug addict.
Nobody, not even Vince McMahon, will tell you anything else than
that Michaels snorted the equivalent of an iceberg. Plus the
pills and booze and whatnot. His work deteriorated to a point
he had problems finding the ring."

Yes, shawn michaels was a drug addict. So was eddie guerrero and so were ALOT of wrestlers back in the day


"2) Michaels has exposed the business.
Curtain Call. Nuff said. It was a desaster and Trips had to apologize
to every man in the locker room back then."

I seem to remeber that the kliq broke character, not just michaels. Trips paid the price by losing his spot at winning king of the ring and the true birth of SCSA came into being. Triple h was a jobber to the stars for a brief time but won the intercontinental title for the first time on October 21, 1996. Hunter won the king of the ring tournament a year later anyway, so in general the MSG incident was a very good thing in the long run for pro wrestling as a whole


"3) Michaels undercuts people.
Ask Hurricane Helms. Michaels used his power to keep others down.
Ask Vader. Ask the Hitman."

So did hulk hogan? So did alot of stars. Michaels was a douche in the 90's, he admitted it himself. He might have undercut people, but so did a bunch of ME talent in both WCW and WWF


"4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Ask Jim Cornette. Ask the Hitman. It is a well known fact that
Michaels helped Vince screw Bret so he had not to put him over.
Most other wrestlers will tell you they will put over a chair
if it makes sense for the business. Michaels would not even put
over the Excellence of Execution and told him so."

I will give you that, michaels didn't like to put talent over, but AGAIN he wasn't the only talent in the business that felt that way. Michaels hated bret and bret hated michaels. BOTH parties were at fault. Bret even admitted to it. Also that was the michaels of the past but he has changed since then. Just about every wrestler attains to that and just because helms had his problems with shawn, doesn't by any standard mean that shawn is still a horrible person. Stop living in the past, you're missing alot in the present


"5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
Nobody will argue with this. It was the whole purpose of the Kliq."

Yes he did, but so did the rest of the Kliq? Yet only michaels deserves the blame right?


"6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
When he was on- he was on. But Michaels had a tendency to a flippy
floppy style. Sometimes it went too far to the point the psychology
was totally off."

Michaels on an off day is still capable of giving better matches than alot of talent on the roster, past or present. This isn't blind marking, that's just my objective opinion on the matter.



"7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
Yes, he always oversold. But it came to a match at Summer Slam 2005
vs Hulk Hogan that was such a desaster it made me puke into my mouth.
That match is my definiton of minus 5 Stars. Go watch it, I dare you."

His overselling was priceless and he did that on purpose as a way to get back at hogan. Hogan refused to lose to michaels in any way form or shape, so michaels got back at hogan. The 2 of them have had somehwhat of a disliking toward each other. You want to take a shot at the match quality? By all means go do it, no-one ever stated it was an all time classic. It wasn't meant to be anything more



"I am prepared to take the sea of red ink coming into my cp for this
thread because mindless HBK marks will red-rep me in legion. I don´t
care. There has to be a place to discuss the dark side of the
Showstopper as well. Feel free to comment on this topic- the way
to the HBK appreciation night is on the other floor."

Let me let you in on a little secret. No-one ever admitted to shawn being a saint and frankly everybody, including you, has a "dark side". What i'm getting at is, there's no point in singling out an individual and discussing their mistakes when every breathing person on this planet has made their fair share. You my friend sound bitter and i would suggest growing up sometime in the near future and stop dwelling in the past, especially on the mistakes of 1 certain individual. Try seeing the positives in life instead of just the negatives. You'll be a much happier person
 

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The collective marking for Shawn Michaels had already reached unknown
levels when HBK retired and then again rose when he was nominated for
the HOF. This marking out has to make way to a dissection of
the work, the contribution and the character of Shawn Michaels.
We have heard enough about feud of the year and match of the year.

Here is a rough draft of some valid points to be made about HBK:

1) Michaels is a drug addict.
Nobody, not even Vince McMahon, will tell you anything else than
that Michaels snorted the equivalent of an iceberg. Plus the
pills and booze and whatnot. His work deteriorated to a point
he had problems finding the ring.
2) Michaels has exposed the business.
Curtain Call. Nuff said. It was a desaster and Trips had to apologize
to every man in the locker room back then.
3) Michaels undercuts people.
Ask Hurricane Helms. Michaels used his power to keep others down.
Ask Vader. Ask the Hitman.
4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Ask Jim Cornette. Ask the Hitman. It is a well known fact that
Michaels helped Vince screw Bret so he had not to put him over.
Most other wrestlers will tell you they will put over a chair
if it makes sense for the business. Michaels would not even put
over the Excellence of Execution and told him so.
5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
Nobody will argue with this. It was the whole purpose of the Kliq.
6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
When he was on- he was on. But Michaels had a tendency to a flippy
floppy style. Sometimes it went too far to the point the psychology
was totally off.
7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
Yes, he always oversold. But it came to a match at Summer Slam 2005
vs Hulk Hogan that was such a desaster it made me puke into my mouth.
That match is my definiton of minus 5 Stars. Go watch it, I dare you.

I am prepared to take the sea of red ink coming into my cp for this
thread because mindless HBK marks will red-rep me in legion. I don´t
care. There has to be a place to discuss the dark side of the
Showstopper as well. Feel free to comment on this topic- the way
to the HBK appreciation night is on the other floor.
1. Yes Shawn Michaels was completely lost in drugs and you won't hear anyone say any different including himself and Vince McMahon, it has never been denied by anyone but ask yourself if he was that good whilst out of it most of the time how good would he have been if he had been clean. To say Shawn Michaels work declined even slightly though is completely wrong as he got better every year until 1998 when he had his back injury and once he returned he was just as good if not better because he had adapted his in ring style to accomodate his injury.

2. Exposing the business is what led to what is known as "The Attitude Era" which is regarded as the greatest period in wrestling, it was Shawn Michaels who told Vince McMahon in late 1995 that the product was terrible and needed more realism for WWE to move forward which is why every year after 1995 was an improvement. That isn't me being a Shawn Michaels mark because Vince McMahon has said himself as well as Triple H that Shawn Michaels was the one who pushed for WWE to stop trying to pull the wool over the fans eyes as they know what is real and what isn't, by the way i heard that a lot of people liked "The Attitide Era"

3. Shawn Michaels had no power backstage and the only people who will claim that he did were people who didn't like how close him and Vince McMahon were or who didn't make it in WWE themselves, Shane Helms came in to WWE when Shawn Michaels wasn't even around and once Shawn Michaels did return for his 8 year run second time round he won one World title which he held for four or five weeks and was a two or three time tag team champion. Shawn Michaels put more people over in his second WWE run than anyone outside of Kane but Shawn Michaels did more for them because he was far more important than Kane was.

I can remember John Cena, Randy Orton and Batista all getting very important wins for their career over Shawn Michaels as well as Edge, Chris Benoit and Jeff Hardy all getting wins over Shawn Michaels when they were getting their big pushes towards the WWE/World title not too mention established stars like Triple H, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle and even Hulk Hogan all beating him. Shawn Michaels second run was more or less all about establishing new stars which he did even when beating them, how many people remember anything else Shelton Benjamin ever did in WWE outside of Money in the Bank or his matches with Shawn Michaels.

4. In his first run Shawn Michaels put people over all the time but when he is booked to go over someone that is down to Vince McMahon and not Shawn Michaels as Vince McMahon is the one that calls the shots, if you are refering to Bret Hart and WrestleMania 13 a world respected knee surgeon told him there was no way he could wrestle anytime soon and WWE were the ones that wanted to push it as a career ending injury so they could hype the return and show how tought WWE wrestler's are. In between early 1992 and mid 1996 i think it is fair to say that Shawn Michaels probably lost more PPV matches than he won and in between mid 1996 and early 1998 was the top guy so was always going to go over people just like Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Brock Lesnar and John Cena have also all done as top guy.

5. All of this "The Clique had all the power" and "The Clique booked themselves to be on top back then" stuff needs to stop seriously because Vince McMahon is the only man past present and forseeable future that can book people into a spot and no one outside of Hulk Hogan has ever been treated differently. What is funny is i remember Vince McMahon saying that Shawn Michaels was going to him with ideas back in mid 1992 and he liked and used some of them but because Shawn Michaels wasn't on top back then no one mentions that and Shawn Michaels still wasn't on top until WrestleMania 12 but yet he booked himself into the top spot did he.

Of the whole group Shawn Michaels was behind Scott Hall in 1993 and 1994 and then behind Kevin Nash in 1995 whilst being behind Bret Hart for all of that time but yet people say he used his backstage power to get his spot at the top. No one ever mentions that Bret Hart spent most of the two years in between WrestleMania 10 and WrestleMania 12 working with his family in the top feuds but does anyone say that Bret Hart used his power to get his family in the top feuds and top spots or that he would only put his family over, until the build up to The Royal Rumble in 1996 Shawn Michaels was effectively still a mid card wrestler so he didn't book himself to the top spot.

6. I think that Shawn Michaels on an off day would still provide a better match than almost all of the entire WWE roster but on his best day he was absolutely untouchable but don't take my word for it as Vince McMahon, Kevin Nash, Triple H, Scott Hall, Jim Ross, Ric Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, John Cena, Kurt Angle, The Undertaker and many others have called him the greatest in ring performer of all time which says to me he must have been quite good. As for his psychology in the ring you must be crazy if you thought it was no good because he sold a story better than anyone in the ring which is why so many people bought into his matches, he may never have been a major draw but people certainly bought into his matches and his worst matches are better than most peoples best matches.

7. There is a reason for why he oversold against Hulk Hogan and that is because Hulk Hogan went back on their agreed deal of a two matche feud between them with Hulk Hogan going over at SummerSlam and then Shawn Michaels winning the rematch but once everything was all signed for SummerSlam Hulk Hogan then pulled out of the rematch. It had already been agreed and signed that Hulk Hogan would win at SummerSlam so basically Hulk Hogan had tricked Shawn Michaels into doing the job for him and Shawn Michaels oversold as a result, that being said match quality wise it was probably the best match Hulk Hogan ever had which is a testament to just how good Shawn Michaels was in the ring.
 

· A superhero that saves your GF from your sex game.
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3,910 Posts
The collective marking for Shawn Michaels had already reached unknown
levels when HBK retired and then again rose when he was nominated for
the HOF. This marking out has to make way to a dissection of
the work, the contribution and the character of Shawn Michaels.
We have heard enough about feud of the year and match of the year.

Here is a rough draft of some valid points to be made about HBK:

1) Michaels is a drug addict.
Nobody, not even Vince McMahon, will tell you anything else than
that Michaels snorted the equivalent of an iceberg. Plus the
pills and booze and whatnot. His work deteriorated to a point
he had problems finding the ring.
2) Michaels has exposed the business.
Curtain Call. Nuff said. It was a desaster and Trips had to apologize
to every man in the locker room back then.
3) Michaels undercuts people.
Ask Hurricane Helms. Michaels used his power to keep others down.
Ask Vader. Ask the Hitman.
4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Ask Jim Cornette. Ask the Hitman. It is a well known fact that
Michaels helped Vince screw Bret so he had not to put him over.
Most other wrestlers will tell you they will put over a chair
if it makes sense for the business. Michaels would not even put
over the Excellence of Execution and told him so.
5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
Nobody will argue with this. It was the whole purpose of the Kliq.
6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
When he was on- he was on. But Michaels had a tendency to a flippy
floppy style. Sometimes it went too far to the point the psychology
was totally off.
7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
Yes, he always oversold. But it came to a match at Summer Slam 2005
vs Hulk Hogan that was such a desaster it made me puke into my mouth.
That match is my definiton of minus 5 Stars. Go watch it, I dare you.

I am prepared to take the sea of red ink coming into my cp for this
thread because mindless HBK marks will red-rep me in legion. I don´t
care. There has to be a place to discuss the dark side of the
Showstopper as well. Feel free to comment on this topic- the way
to the HBK appreciation night is on the other floor.
This is just stupid because of the fact that you're talking about the OLD Shawn Michaels. You're obviously stuck in the damn 90s and I would personally like to welcome you to 21st century. Shawn Michaels is a changed man and while all the stuff you said is true. It's IN THE PAST AND IRRELEVANT. But I am glad you got this little rant out ya system though. Oh and maybe you should look at Hogan and blame him for Shawn's overselling. If he had put Shawn over like he was supposed then Shawn wouldn't have oversold like he did. Im actually kinda glad he didn't because Shawn made the match hella funny! LOL
 

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The dissection of your dissection:

1) Michaels is a drug addict.
-He did drugs. You can't prove he does them now. You have no evidence. This is an empty claim. If he's clean, then he's a recovered drug addict, which is something I can respect.

2) Michaels has exposed the business.
This was around the same time that Hogan and McMahon explicitly exposed the business in court and on TV. Anything Michaels did was trivial in comparison and his work with DX and Stonecold helped set up a boom period that emerged from that exposure.

3) Michaels undercuts people.
He does not undercut anybody. He's not in wrestling. There were definitely periods where he could have put more people over. He made a lot of people look very good regardless of outcome, and over the years lost clean to Ken Kennedy, Legacy and others. In the scheme of people who wouldn't do jobs, he's hardly the worst.

4) Michaels wouldn´t put people over and hated to lose.
Addressed above.

5) Michaels used the Kliq to influence booking to help 4)
So, you're repeating the above. Essentially 4) and 5) were empty, redundant claims.

6) Michaels had unbelievable good matches. Others where off.
Your dislike for a "flippy floppy" style is nonsense. I've rewatched twelve of his 90's matches lately and they were all staggering. He had a great mind for when to use highspots.

7) Micheals oversold to the point it looked 100% fake.
He sold to the point where he received many of the most sympathetic crowd reactions of all time. It all always looks fake. He put legitimate emotion and had attention to detail.
 
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