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Discussion Starter #1
The WWE is on a permanent decline, due to their 'They are victims of their own success' [sic] that a wrestler stated about WCW many years ago. There are quite a few problems with the product compared to yesteryear, but I'll just cover the big parts:

- The boring promos
- The lack of popular, promoted wrestlers.
- The large amounts of PPVs in one calender year
- Talent being wasted on nonsense storylines
- The lack of writers that recognize talent and can 'promote' them
- The Heavyweight Title (and others) doesn't 'mean' as much to anyone as it should
- The WWE is a openly traded company who's loyalty is to the shareholders
- The WWE doesn't care about ratings any longer, as long as they break a 3.0 share.
- The writers have no idea what 'talent' is.
- Redundant matches against the same people over and over, year after year.
- Feuds have no intensity, no 'depth', no build up
- The writers not listening to the crowds. (Cena sucks?)
-- The lack of a tag division
-- The divas section being an embarrassment

While the AE and other 'Eras' brought a change in the product to make it more popular with certain demographics for a generation, the post Attitude Era was just the beginning of the end for the company as a whole. The past WWF/E has a history of 'Eras' and/or Ages, which I will summarize very quickly with an anaology of 'tick' (high/popular) vs 'tock' (stale/on the decline).

'Tick' -> Golden Age/Era
'Tock' -> New Generation
'Tick' -> Attitude Era
'Tock' -> Post AE (RE/PG13/whatever)

There is no real need for the WWF/E to do any changes to their product to make it popular, as there really isn't a need for them to, they have no competition at all, no territories, nothing. Since the exit of WCW and ECW many moons ago, let's face it, the product will continue to be bad and get worse over time as people such as the Undertaker and other veterans are forced to retire.

Please sit back and think for a second, the product /IS/ mediocre at best, but it's just awful overall; there are a few interesting things ongoing (The Shield has potential), however due to WWF/E botching buildups (the pipebomb comes to mind) and signing people who should stay retired (Brock, The Rock), it's apparent the WWE only wants to do what WCW did, put on a good show and that is it.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the ruthless aggression era was after attitude and it was awesome.
 

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You made some great points within that, me personally I think the problem is too many PPV's, the lack of creativity and character development (which is improving lately though, now that they've started giving wrestlers gimmicks again), the tag team division needs to start bringing in tag teams AS tag teams that look and perform GREAT (IE Legion Of Doom) instead of shoving two generated wrestlers together without much of an image (again, they're repackaging and going the right way here), they need to abolish scripts completely (which HHH has said he's going to do), because this just makes room for error and puts pressure on the wrestlers to perform the scenes, they need to stop repeating matches too over and over and probably bring back unknown jobbers, leaving the main roster guys to fight on PPV's, build up storylines and have people anticipated for the match ... I mean,. why should a match with say Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton on Raw, be any bigger and better just cause it's on a PPV card, it lacks the build up half the time, and that's where the problem lies.

The talent is there in the WWE, no doubt about it, they've got some immense talent, it's just the way they utilize them now and the creative side of things seems a little lacking, rematch clause is an easy way to have time go by and meaning creative already have the next chapter written because of this, same by ending PPV matches without a definite result, that's why we often get 2 or 3 matches at a PPV repeated over and over again, which becomes stale to a lot of people ... I mean, when Battleground ended as it did, it felt like a cheap shot to a lot of people, cause there was no definite result for the fans in the arena and the people who bought the PPV (free in the UK however), and also straight away it's like, oh so Daniel Bryan is facing Orton again then at the next PPV .. and what was announced on Raw, Daniel Bryan Vs Randy Orton again ... so I think it's a whole creative issue really here, it's easy for them to do this.

They also need to create more feuds that don't involve a title, mid card feuds can be done really really well, in fact many of the mid card feuds in the past, that are seen as the best feuds when people look back on were the best, but now they don't really pur much effort into any other feuds, unless a belt is involved, they will have little feuds going down (IE The Miz and Fandango), but it's never really pushed to it's max and they don't seem to have many skits involved like when they'd have the Brother Love Show and Rick Martel blinded Jake Roberts, or the Barbershop when Shawn Michaels threw Marty Jannetty through the window ... they miss a lot of these scene's now, same with the outside skits like The Rock and Stone Cold used to do, they were awesome, it was GREAT to see Cody Rhodes do this with Damien Sandow recently, I also like how they have slowly brought back little promo's in the corner of the screen during matches, you don't see these too often, but they have started to do them a little slightly, and this is only a good thing.

That's pretty much it really I think, WWE is solid, but they don't utilize things enough and that's where these problems occur.
 

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Funny,

....I asked some lady about wrestling yesterday. Her reply was, "who still watches wrestling after the '90s?"

In my opinion, mainstream pro-wrestling is/was a cultural phenomenon. The attitude and culture of the '80s and '90s and the larger than life personalities of the star athletes formed an ultimate concoction of entertainment. New attitudes about violence and safety and new forms of communication have really diminished its value.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You made some great points within that, me personally I think the problem is too many PPV's, the lack of creativity and character development (which is improving lately though, now that they've started giving wrestlers gimmicks again), the tag team division needs to start bringing in tag teams AS tag teams that look and perform GREAT (IE Legion Of Doom) instead of shoving two generated wrestlers together without much of an image (again, they're repackaging and going the right way here), they need to abolish scripts completely (which HHH has said he's going to do), because this just makes room for error and puts pressure on the wrestlers to perform the scenes, they need to stop repeating matches too over and over and probably bring back unknown jobbers, leaving the main roster guys to fight on PPV's, build up storylines and have people anticipated for the match ... I mean,. why should a match with say Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton on Raw, be any bigger and better just cause it's on a PPV card, it lacks the build up half the time, and that's where the problem lies.

The talent is there in the WWE, no doubt about it, they've got some immense talent, it's just the way they utilize them now and the creative side of things seems a little lacking, rematch clause is an easy way to have time go by and meaning creative already have the next chapter written because of this, same by ending PPV matches without a definite result, that's why we often get 2 or 3 matches at a PPV repeated over and over again, which becomes stale to a lot of people ... I mean, when Battleground ended as it did, it felt like a cheap shot to a lot of people, cause there was no definite result for the fans in the arena and the people who bought the PPV (free in the UK however), and also straight away it's like, oh so Daniel Bryan is facing Orton again then at the next PPV .. and what was announced on Raw, Daniel Bryan Vs Randy Orton again ... so I think it's a whole creative issue really here, it's easy for them to do this.

They also need to create more feuds that don't involve a title, mid card feuds can be done really really well, in fact many of the mid card feuds in the past, that are seen as the best feuds when people look back on were the best, but now they don't really pur much effort into any other feuds, unless a belt is involved, they will have little feuds going down (IE The Miz and Fandango), but it's never really pushed to it's max and they don't seem to have many skits involved like when they'd have the Brother Love Show and Rick Martel blinded Jake Roberts, or the Barbershop when Shawn Michaels threw Marty Jannetty through the window ... they miss a lot of these scene's now, same with the outside skits like The Rock and Stone Cold used to do, they were awesome, it was GREAT to see Cody Rhodes do this with Damien Sandow recently, I also like how they have slowly brought back little promo's in the corner of the screen during matches, you don't see these too often, but they have started to do them a little slightly, and this is only a good thing.

That's pretty much it really I think, WWE is solid, but they don't utilize things enough and that's where these problems occur.
First and foremost, thank you for the followup, Unlike the 2 morons who are obviously virgins who still live at home with the parents, it's refreshing to see a reply that sticks to the topic, and not a barrage of nonsense.

I agree that there needs to be major change to the product, however I see it as unlikely, sudden changes to the product could possibly alienate the current family oriented fans, which will decline revenue. Creative is simply not people who follow wrestling all that well, they are TV writers (from what I gather), so they don't know anything about how to promote wrestling, they want to put on a 'good show'.
 

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A wallaby? Well it's like a kangaroo but smaller.
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First and foremost, thank you for the followup, Unlike the 2 morons who are obviously virgins who still live at home with the parents, it's refreshing to see a reply that sticks to the topic, and not a barrage of nonsense.

I agree that there needs to be major change to the product, however I see it as unlikely, sudden changes to the product could possibly alienate the current family oriented fans, which will decline revenue. Creative is simply not people who follow wrestling all that well, they are TV writers (from what I gather), so they don't know anything about how to promote wrestling, they want to put on a 'good show'.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words :)

And yeah, they hired Hollywood writers from what I heard, which writing a script for wrestling is completely different, as to what writing a script for a movie would be, massively!

Get Paul Heyman as head of creative, then we'd see some great things happen!!!
 

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First and foremost, thank you for the followup, Unlike the 2 morons who are obviously virgins who still live at home with the parents, it's refreshing to see a reply that sticks to the topic, and not a barrage of nonsense.

I agree that there needs to be major change to the product, however I see it as unlikely, sudden changes to the product could possibly alienate the current family oriented fans, which will decline revenue. Creative is simply not people who follow wrestling all that well, they are TV writers (from what I gather), so they don't know anything about how to promote wrestling, they want to put on a 'good show'.
Why does the WWE prefer TV writers over individuals who actually know and follow the product?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Why does the WWE prefer TV writers over individuals who actually know and follow the product?
Good question, however, it's difficult to say at this point. I guess TV writers are a dime a dozen since the collapse of the Soap Opra genre, and they are probably cheaper overall from an employment status.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Monk the reason I didn't bother typing some "bootiful analysis" is because this shit has been discussed to death.
That's a decent rebuttal to my original question, you should have stated that initially, instead of resorting to a childish post.
 

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There are a few things I enjoy about modern WWE but as a whole its a shadow of its former self. If I could send late 90s/early 00s me an episode of 2013 Raw I think i'd have a hard time believing what its become even with the evidence in front of me.
 

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If Paul Heyman were in charge of Creative, I bet we would have seen Punk/Bryan/Heyman ganging up on Triple H and Co..that would have been must see TV..but of course we didn't get that.
 

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signing people who should stay retired (Brock, The Rock), it's apparent the WWE only wants to do what WCW did, put on a good show and that is it.
First Monkbeurger I'd like to say it's okay for you to discuss this again, no matter how many times it's come up. Not that you need my permission (or anyone else for that matter) but the WWE is dynamic, and even though the question may have been asked before, the answers do change. Not everyone here got a chance to weigh in the last time it came up.

Brock Lesnar has no place in a wrestling ring. Every time I see him step in the ring I fear for his opponents life. Not because he's some unstoppable monster, it's because he's inept. I'm hoping his latest run ends before he accidentally cripples someone. The Rock? Dwayne puts asses in chairs. As long as he brings in more money than he spends, he's doing the WWE a favor. Unlike most former superstars, The Rock made it outside of the WWE, he doesn't need WWE money, but sometimes they need his draw.

Too many PPVs? They have to make money somewhere. Ad time isn't bringing in 90s money because they don't have 90s Nielsens. They don't have the ratings because...

Storylines people care about... The corporation angle, again? Really?!?

Paul Heyman, and any trust given him or value given to his opinion, The guy ran a moderately successful, relatively small and widely distributed operation. They may want to remember that promotion failed.

Entertainment, outside of C.M. Punk (whom I really loathe) there are about zero other performers with any mic skills. I guess I got spoiled by the likes of The Rock, HBK, Hart, Austin, Jericho, but cripes, someone give these guys some coaching. This isn't the Hogan/Flair era anymore. We need more Than a What ya gonna do brutha, or a Whooooo to get the wheels turning now.

Plausible champions. There is a fantasy world where the Pilsbury Doughbeard beats the guy cut out of rock, who he's giving up 40 lbs, 8 inches of height, and tons of skill to. That's the WCW of the 1980s. It was a crap product that nobody but people who think wrestling is real, cared about. Seriously after the year plus reign of a talentless 200 pounder, I was excited to see Orton back as a serious contender. The HHH angle of handing the title over, really took away from the guys credibility. Orton has a ton of ring talent, and he's big enough and skilled enough to look the part of a champion. This whole angle/feud with Bryan, is a huge mistake, and almost as bad for his career as jobbing to one of the Spirit Squad. Part of wrestling as a whole is suspending disbelief. It has to have some realism to it though, and 200 pound champions don't cut it. Orton is a monster, Ryback, Cena, RVD (but he's too damned old and it's showing). Those guys look believable with that belt around their waists. It's insulting to a normal persons intelligence that some 200 lb lightweight underdog is just going to step up and grab that strap. They're underdogs for a reason. They might win once, but repeats like that don't happen, ask the 69 Mets.

The WWE have enough talent right now to put together amazing shows. What they don't have is character development and writing. I'm not certain that they have any forward vision at this point either. The product is pretty stagnant, if it holds the way it has for another month or so I'm going to take another year or so vacation from it. I know the industry doesn't really like smarks, because we don't "put much into the product" but I can tell you, I pay for my PPVs, and have since Wrestlemania III. I still buy merch, at least when they have an entertainer worth buying the image on. WWE needs to start analyzing the actual spend ratio on their target demographic. Some of us older marks spend a hell of a lot more than they think we do, and, we vote with our wallets.

Put on a good show? Hell I'm pretty sure at this point they just want to put on A show.
 

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Agree with you and I would add one point you didn't mention

- They try too hard to make the WWE seems real

And that means we have to deal with Main-Eventer that are all the same. No personnality, no gimmicks, most of them are the same, say goodbye to Undertaker the biker, The Rock the egomaniac, Stone Cold the redneck,... and say hello to Cena the good guy, Daniel Bryan the good guy, RVD the good guy,... and the storyline are pathetic. Remember when you had a war between two wrestlers ? They would just try to kill eachother, maybe it didn't seemed real but it was fun. Now, they do that bullshit with the Big Show that is broke, it's just stupid. Give up that " Reality Era " and bring back wrestling like it was, a epic battle between the good and the evil with muscular guys. I'm not saying that only guys like Batista should be at the top but come on, CM Punk champion for over a year and Bryan as the guy that can beat everybody ?
 

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Nice post. I'd say the biggest issue with the current WWE is the writing. There are very few, if any, storylines or characters, and the crap of Battleground really sums this up.

Bryan vs Orton was the biggest feud going in there. The Corporation storyline is like the best thing WWE has done in years and yet even that has started to falter. That part is down to the proximity of ppvs I'd say: 3 in two months is ridiculous and another problem they're having as they can't really space things out too much. Now it feels like we get the blow-off matches too soon where the heels need to win until the face finally gets the upper-hand but the face still needs to look strong and not lose all the time. But at the same time there wasn't much heat between these two either was there? Most of it was Bryan and the Corporation, there wasn't much direct interaction with Orton and still hasn't been outside of generic "x attacks y" run-ins.

ADR vs RVD didn't even have a storyline, it hardly qualifies as a feud. There's no reason to get invested in it at all. No promos, matches are generic, no underlying reason for why these two are fighting at all. Another reason why ADR is as unover as he is, is because despite all these accomplishments he has no character, no personality, no reason for anyone to like or hate him.

And that's a problem with a lot of the roster. Has Kofi every had a storyline, despite being there for 8 years? Promos outside of generic babyface ones? I can't think of any. He has no character, no time to develop a character and no reason for anyone to get invested in him because he has no real feuds. Same with just about every other midcarder out there from Swagger to Cesaro to Barrett and Miz and Christian. There's no depth at all.

That's definitely one step up the Attitude Era had over these days. Midcarders were given characters, storylines, and a means to get over on their own and would THEN be pushed (not pushed and then forced to get over). Hell, Too Cool got bigger pops than literally 99% of the roster today. Even guys like Godfather had memorable gimmicks, promos, and feuds despite being a low-carder. They'd even have something for otherwise-boring guys like Blackman, Lance Storm, Malenko: they'd have some sort of character to make-up for their lack of personality and that's something else some guys like Axel could use today. There's nothing that makes them stand out or memorable.

Most other matches on the card with the exception of Punk/Ryback and the tag match had no build-up whatsoever. Kofi/Wyatt, Axel/Truth, Sandow/Ziggler... who the fuck cares? No storylines! These writers literally get paid to do the least amount of writing possible, it's pretty amazing.

Give these guys storylines that go beyond the "x attacks y" feuds. Then give them promo-time to actually develop a character during the feud. You'd think this would be easy to do in 3 fucking hours but apparently not?
 
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