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The decline of WCW

7K views 72 replies 23 participants last post by  Stephen90 
#1 ·
#8 ·
I can't take this seriously with Hogan holding a WWE mic. You couldn't find a pic with a WCW one?
 
#14 ·
I thought WCW was shaky as hell in the early 90's. Chamber of Horrors was so bad I thought it was a joke the first time I watched it on video. Same with the scaffold match at GAB 91, end of Starrcade 90 and Robocop. Back in the I collected all those PPV releases and could see why they built a reputation as a WWF ripoff with some people here in Europe. Then there was the wave of shitty gimmicks: Big Josh, Oz, PN News, Bad Blood, Yellow Dog. Probably forgot a few there. It seemed to have the worst of WWF without the production values and colorful marketing.

What it had going for it was a sports aura to the matches. WWF matches were boring by comparison. It would have struggled past 1991 without Ted Turner going to bat for them and Bill Watts cleaning up the crap.
 
#23 · (Edited)
A few things I can think of...

1. WWF had a much better production team. It seems like the WWF had better audio and video for their shows. The WWF stuff usually looked and sounded crisper. The camera crew got better shots of the action and it looked more professional. Also, the WWF did a better job of putting together video packages to introduce or hype their big shows or feuds. Take a look at the WrestleMania 12, 13, and 14 video packages and the Bret/Shawn build-up video for their iron-man match. The SummerSlam '97 PPV intro was very good. How about the Highway to Hell video package for Austin/Undertaker at SummerSlam '98? What about the WrestleMania 17 intro video and then the Rock/Austin hype video? Nothing WCW put out can compare to these video packages. I'd say WWF really found their stride with this stuff in 1996. When WCW tried putting out video packages to hype upcoming PPV events they always looked cheap and rushed.

2. WWF had better matches. NWA and WWF in the '80s were pretty even when it came to match quality. In the '90s the WWF took it hands down when it came to the number of great matches they put out. I'd say NWA/WCW loses points for relying too much on hokey finishes that never really gave the fans a clear-cut winner. Starrcade '84 ended by referee stoppage by a former boxer with 0 wrestling experience (or refereeing experience for that matter), leaving the fans feeling cheated. Starrcade '86 ended with a double disqualification. This is how you finish the biggest show of the year for the company? What about Hulk Hogan vs. The Butcher in the main event of Starrcade '94? Although some fans place greater emphasis on promos, most still want to see good quality matches and legit finishes that declare a winner.

3. Jim Johnston. The music composer for the WWF put together so many classic entrance songs for the wrestlers. Sure, WCW had some good ones, but their list is not going to touch what Johnston put out for the WWF talent. You know when guys like Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and The Rock are about to walk out, because their music was so well made. Oftentimes, you would hear a WCW entrance theme start and you would have to sit there for a few seconds to figure out whose music it was. Even when you knew whose music it was it did not pump you up for their entrance like those WWF superstars did. I will give WCW credit for the Hulk Hogan (American Made), Sting (Crow), Goldberg, NWO, and Wolfpack entrance themes though. Those were good. They basically gave Bret Hart elevator music for his WCW entrance theme. Compare his WCW theme to his WWF theme. Night and day as far as what is memorable and will pump you up for the match.

4. WWF took the time to build up angles and feuds, while WCW seemed to rush things. WWF would spend 2-3 months building for a big angle, while WCW would just throw something together 2 weeks before a big show. WCW did do a great job with the NWO takeover and the Hogan/Sting build for Starrcade, but then there was the botched finish to the match and the match was not even good. Also, too many times there would be wrestlers brawling in the ring at the end of Nitro and the last thing you could hear as they went off the air was Tony Schiavone telling you "We're out of time, we'll see you next week" as Sting is hitting someone with a Stinger Splash. In WWF, Stone Cold would clear the ring and they would end the show with him drinking some beer in the ring. It allowed you to see it through to the end.

5. WWF had a mix of more established main eventers (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, & The Undertaker), while building newer guys to the main event scene (Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mankind, Kane, The Rock, Triple H, & Kurt Angle). WCW relied on old WCW talent (Flair, Luger, & Sting) or old WWF guys (Hogan, Savage, Hall, & Nash) to cover their main events. WCW also neglected guys like Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, and Eddie Guerrero, who would later do very well in the WWF. Props to WCW for Goldberg and Diamond Dallas Page though. They just needed to build more substance to Goldberg for after his undefeated streak came to an end. Also, Page was already in his early 40s by the time he reached main event level. They needed younger guys who could capture the attention of the audience for years to come. WWF just did a better job of building stars, going back to the '80s with Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Piper, etc.
 
#31 ·
NWA and WWF in the '80s were pretty even when it came to match quality
No. Honestly, just fucking no.
JCP/WCW had all the drama, blood, hard hitting hardcore matches and great technical wrestlers, especially in the later half, especially, when it became WCW and they brought in guys like Great Muta.
Also the greatest Tag Team Division ever assembled in 1988-1989. JCP had the Road Warriors, WWF had the cheap knock off in form of Demolition.
The best example for the difference is the Sheepherders (JCP) becoming the Bushwackers (WWF), that ultimately sums up the difference - and i rather take the Sheepherders.

With the WWF the problem was, that once the wrestlers went there, they instantly dropped half of their move set and slowed down. You had 1 outstanding match like Savage vs. Steamboat, followed by a ton of slow, plodding matches, like Steamboat vs. Rude (RR1988) which was just sleeperhold, after sleeperhold, right into Steamboat's infamous botch.

The one great thing in the late 80's in the WWF was the Jumping Bomb Angels. They were amazing - and got sabotaged by Moolah, so that ended way too soon. Those 2 ran circles around every other wrestler, no matter the gender, in the WWF though.

Great point! When talking about the two major wrestling companies of the 90s, WWE would dominate any top 10, 50, 100 etc list of matches.
Classic Fan and i made lists a couple months ago. While he listed every Bret match there was, no matter how mediocre it actually was, including non-PPV stuff, i tried objective and it still was relatively close, given JCP/WCW had less PPVs to choose from (especially since he went until 2002 for some reaosn)
 
#35 ·
90s WCW was such an up and down show. It had great moments and also horrible and cringy moments. It really never felt that there was a plan behind the product and it felt like there were too many cooks in the kitchen who wanted their say. Even around 96-97 were filled with bad booking decisions and bad use of Talent.
 
#36 ·
Add in 98-99 as well.

WCW somehow managed to create the 3rd bigger star of that period in Goldberg and then, within a span of months managed to waste him. They also wated Hart and by the time Hart and Goldberg had a rivalry that should have been the best of the period...both guys had lost their shine.

No idea how they can mess up so bad!
 
#46 ·
Goldberg wasnt sustainable. He was good at what he did but him and the schtick were very one dimensional. Once you try to make him something other than a silent mysterious killing machine who squashes people in 3 minutes he starts to lose his appeal, but on the other hand if you keep him as that it means eventually hes got to start squashing all of your other top stars as well, which hurts them. Theres just not much longevity to it.

They had a similar (albeit much less extreme) issue with Sting in 97. The main reason he got over so big that year is because of the sense of mystery surrounding him - him not wrestling, not talking, only showing up every now and then, and the slow build towards him getting to Hogan. Once that was over it was never gonna be quite the same.
 
#54 ·
I don't necessarily agree about Goldberg. Even after he lost to Nash, he was still over huge. You could have had him lose the occasional match here and there as long as you protected him in the loss, not unlike how other big dominant babyfaces like Undertaker and Batista were generally been protected when losing.
 
#59 ·
the common narrative that's pushed is that when the AOL/time warner merger happened the new business guys that took over didn't like wrestling and wanted WCW off the network. I can't remember where it was I read it but I seen something about that being lies. the company was losing a shitload of money so that probably made the decision easier to cancel it.
 
#60 ·
If WCW was still pulling in crazy good ratings and lots of money, they weren't going to be in any danger of being cut. They lost over $60 million dollars in 2000. Why wouldn't a new company overseeing them axe them? Bischoff has been trying to spin this stupid yarn for 20 years. He had no plan of life after the NWO. He pretended like WWF going uber sexual stymied him into not being able to do the same, even though WCW wasn't overly sexual at all during their 83 week run. His stupid decisions and ludicrous contracts he gave out totally crippled WCW into 99/00 when his main guns stopped drawing, but WCW still had to honor all of those contracts that he ok'd. For example: he gave Master P $2 million dollars to do an angle no one cared about
 
#67 · (Edited)
Reading Death of WCW at the moment and there's a bit about Booker-T not wanting to wrestle Chris Jericho and the other cruiserweights. Funny how it's guys like Kevin Nash who get all the criticism for the "vanilla midget" stuff yet Nash made Rey Mysterio look like a million bucks and put him over.
I definitely recall the whole angle where Mysterio and Konnan were feuding with the "new" nWo briefly in 1999, and Mysterio was forced to take his mask off due to a loss at a PPV (he received legitimate death threats in Mexico for removing the mask BTW).

The match where Mysterio "defeated" Nash was a slap in the face to all the talent who had been held back by Nash or Hogan (and also a slap in the face to the viewers who wanted the younger guys pushed). This was a one-off that did nothing for either wrestler, since Nash had got most of the offense in, and lost by complete fluke. He didn't bother selling Mysterio's win, just getting up immediately and looked "shocked."

Then he went to the dressing room, where people were complaining about his booking (especially booking himself to win the title from Goldberg), and saying "see? I put wrestlers over too." There is a big difference between "putting someone over" and not selling a meaningless match on Nitro that would not hurt Nash at all. After this, Nash went back to his usual rivalries, Mysterio went back to midcard, and the angle was dropped and forgotten about.



Secondly, I have never heard Booker T refusing to be in a program against Jericho. In fact, I'll provide footage of one of their matches from April 1998. Can you substantiate your claim with any source? Booker T actually addressed the fact that he did not get along with either Chris Jericho or William Regal in WCW.

Booker T Recalls Not Getting Along With Chris Jericho In WCW, Almost Fighting William Regal

Far from not wanting to wrestle them, Booker T states, that it made him more motivated to go in the ring and have matches with them, since he was so competitive. Are you sure you are not mixing Booker T and Goldberg up?

 
#68 ·
I was watching through some Nitros in April 1999 recently, and I have no idea what they were doing. There were a couple of Nitros where they did nothing but have recaps and Konnan's stupid music video for the first hour. It was like they were trying to lose at a point. And they were still getting 4+ ratings at that point. Insanity.
 
#69 ·
Death of WCW covers that. Possibly Nitro as well

If you want to pinpoint one of the times where the company begins to really go into a tailspin, here's one. Bore your audience with recaps and Konnan music videos for an hour. Condition your audience that the first hour does not matter, and that the time to tune in is at 9am EST...when RAW is WAR was starting.

Purportedly the relegation of the first hour was an internal bet that Nitro would draw the same whether they had matches or not. Not certain if that was true, but the spring 1999 Nitros were absolute slogs.
 
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