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I'm Just A Sick Guy.
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1,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi. I don't post new threads too often. I started typing today and thought this might be worth making a new thread for. I welcome your opinions on what I've got to say here, if there are any. Oh, and FYI it's a bit of a long post, but anyway, here goes.

It just feels to me like WWE have collected the amazing range of talent they have, yet for some reason they're wasting it.

Main roster WWE is so unbelievably bland. Nothing matters, the crowd won't really pop for anything. No wrestler ever has logical character growth or development. Nobody cares about anything because nothing matters or makes a difference to anything. We're not made to care about any of the feuds. There's no stakes for anything, no reason to care about anything that's happening; and no reason to have that all important magic emotional connection to any wrestler or anything that ever happens. Titles don't mean shit. Nothing makes an impact or drives the narrative forward, it's just the same stagnant shit over and over again.

Punk winning the Rumble and having a big Mania match could be the breath of fresh air WWE needs. It would be exciting and interesting at the very least. Meltzer recently implied that he didn't think WWE or more so HHH would do bigger business with Punk due to pettiness over the past; I'd love to see him prove Meltzer wrong and make a deal happen- everyone has shit in the past they need to move on from. This is no different.

Characters don't develop creatively. I'm not a huge Kofi fan, but you know what I'll admit he won me over during his run; now that his run's over he's back to slinging pancakes and eating pins. Zero character growth. He lost the title and is back to being a mid carder. Unbelievable.

I'm obviously a massive Daniel Bryan fan, the crowd are at the point where they want to cheer him again. So what do they do? Put him against a heel who's over like a babyface, the crowd want to cheer Bray, they want to cheer Bryan, so Bryan's playing heel against a heel who's over like a face; so the crowd just stays silent because they don't know what to do. They're confused. What happened to the rumored Shinsuke match? People would've loved that.

I think for this to work they need to clearly define who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. Bray's so over they will need to work harder to clearly define the face and the heel.

The problem with Bray is that he shouldn't be over cause he's supposed to be a heel. He's so set on making the audience pop (wink, I'm on your side) type of stuff for every promo and video he does that nobody wants to boo him, and he's a heel. He's a heel who's more over than the faces he faces. If they want Bray to be a face they need to stop putting him against tweeners and babyfaces and create an even bigger heel the fans actually hate for him to destroy; kinda like WCW Sting. People would go nuts for that.

If they want Bray to be a real heel they need to stop him being nice to the fans all the time. He's gotta stop getting himself over, isolate himself, make people hate him, stop the funny videos and stop popping the audience every week because it's so far gotten him over as a face not a heel.

Bear with me on this one. A heel who is over like a face can't effectively face a face or a heel. Think about that.

As for Bryan being 'mentally unstable' it didn't work for Ambrose and it won't work for him. For Bryan to build up any new momentum he needs to be wrestling and cutting promos every week, not 2 matches and 2 promos a month; it's not enough to build momentum.

You've got amazing wrestlers throughout the roster doing nothing of impact. Nakamura's the IC champ but a shadow of his former self. Why isn't Owens near the top? Sami is incredible in the ring, a natural face but also surprisingly great as a heel. He's playing around as Nakamuras Gedo, when in reality he could face Okada tomorrow and tear down whatever building that match was in. He's a really gifted wrestler who's squandering his talent every week WWE don't use him properly.

Ricochet was literally on fire on the indies. Dude was so hot on the indies I literally saw him on fire a few times. He had a great reputation, an amazing moveset, charisma, popularity; and a list of great matches with amazing wrestlers. How could they fuck him up, right? Right?! Fast forward from his Raw debut how ever long its been and nobody gives a flying fuck about him, his matches are boring and he comes across as a dweeb because the commontators keep saying "he's like superman or spiderman!" They somehow found a way to completely neutralise and ruin Ricochet.

Samoa Joe could and should be either a monster anti-hero or one of the biggest heels in the company. He's got it all, but they were wasting him before he got injured.

Cesaro's a wrestling machine, how about giving him a run to the top. He'd be a great champion but they've never given him a chance.

Alestair Black could've been this paranormal, gothic mega heel who the crowd hate but he actually beats people. If they take him out of the cupboard, tell him to insult the fans, make him screw over a top babyface and lean into the gothic stuff a lot more they'd have a main event heel.

Seth Rollins used to be a favorite of mine, and while I'm still a fan of the amazing talent Colby Lopez has (I absolutely hate using real names but I have to make my point); the character of Seth Rollins is so bland, stale and whiney that I absolutely could not get behind him in any way shape or form. Nobody gives a fuck about Seth Rollins, which is an achievement considering how over he was five years ago. Seth was champ as a face for so long, and the last half of his reign everybody hated him. They've even somehow managed to ruin their own babyface champion. They've ruined his character maybe beyond redemption. If I was Seth I'd be pissed off for what they've done to my character: though I'm sure the huge paychecks help him somewhat manage his anger.

Although the tag division admittedly has its good moments we've been made to not care at all about the rest of the roster. They have an incredibly deep, amazingly talented roster who've been made to look like geeks for so long, who've been booked into oblivion for so long that none of them matter. It's unbelievable.

Here's the sentence you can quote me on, but I genuinely believe that if I ran a promotion with the amazing fountain of talent WWE has on its books; I'm confident I'd produce a much better wrestling show than WWE currently is with Raw and Smackdown. I said it; and I meant it. But hey, many people could do the same since the WWE employ such an amazingly talented roster of wrestlers, who they regularly, habitually, criminally misuse. If the show was given a totally new look and vibe, if everyone was given a new character, and truly let off their leash; honestly the roster is so deep and talented the show would produce itself - and it would be much better.

Instead they somehow: quite impressively when you think about it- manage to produce two really bad shows in Raw and Smackdown which nobody likes. I don't know how they do it.

The main roster's screwed.

I feel sorry for Riddle, Adam Cole, Gargano, Ciampa, Dream and Undisputed Era. They should all be destined to be mega stars on the main roster, but honestly; they don't stand a chance. WWE's main roster has an almost 100% record of ruining everything nice NXT has ever given them: and unfortunately I don't think Riddle, Cole, Gargano, Dream, Ciampa or the Undisputed Era will fare any better than Ricochet, Zayn, Balor, Owens, Joe, Nakamura, Roode or Alaister Black. They're all doomed I tells ya'. Ain't it tragic?

Thanks for reading, what do you think?
 

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The talent is there definitely but it seems like most are just there and very few, if any, are sticking out. We need to be given a reason to care about these wrestlers and everyone needs to be given a purpose.
 

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THE MAN has come around to collect her debts.
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6,763 Posts
Everything is a mess. The heel/face dynamic is shot. Wins/losses don't matter. There are no storylines. There is no character progression. Championships mean nothing. There's no passion. And every show is just a carbon copy of the last show. It's a wonder that they are still pulling 1 million viewers every week let alone 2.
 

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It's the worst roster of all time. Most guys look like shit, the ones that don't, like Reigns, McIntyre, etc, lack charisma badly. Very few talkers, very little charisma on the roster, very few workers, most guys do choreographed wrestling, etc. The few guys who are good either aren't pushed or are underpushed. The business is in a bad spot and it's only going to get worse in the coming years.
 

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In current WWE, nothing means anything.

Character alignment doesn't
Storylines don't
Championships don't
Results don't

Everything doesn't matter, so why bother watching?
 

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It's the worst roster of all time. Most guys look like shit, the ones that don't, like Reigns, McIntyre, etc, lack charisma badly. Very few talkers, very little charisma on the roster, very few workers, most guys do choreographed wrestling, etc. The few guys who are good either aren't pushed or are underpushed. The business is in a bad spot and it's only going to get worse in the coming years.
Bingo, this is it. I absolutely can't stand the video game wrestlers, the ones that wrestle like they're straight from a video game. Every match is a spot fest. Everything is too fast. Yes this is good for children but when you try to rationalize some of the stuff that's done it's like wth is this, how is this even plausible?
 

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I'm Just A Sick Guy.
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1,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Bingo, this is it. I absolutely can't stand the video game wrestlers, the ones that wrestle like they're straight from a video game. Every match is a spot fest. Everything is too fast. Yes this is good for children but when you try to rationalize some of the stuff that's done it's like wth is this, how is this even plausible?
I agree. A little more traditional wrestling logic, more time and psychology inbetween moves to give the crowd time to react to everything, fewer kickouts, fewer high spots and better overall in-ring psychology would allow the stories told in the ring to make a lot more sense. I feel like a finisher should be just that. The finish.
 

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FOTC
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10,492 Posts
There's a YouTube channel where the user uploads old WWF recaps from 1987 to late 1991. While the in ring action was very simplistic, the storylines and character development expose the key elements missing from today's WWE.

One of the biggest aspects missing from today is wrestlers having issues with other wrestlers. That was a fixture in the old WWF. Without even looking at Wikipedia I can quickly recap the issues Jake The Snake Robert's had in his WWF run:

- Rick Rude hitting on his wife
- Andre is afraid of snakes
- The greed of Ted DiBiase
- Rats and Snakes
- Vision problems
- Damien is dead... a change in attitude

It's not that hard to do that with today's roster, yet WWE makes it tough. Here's an easy storyline they can create between Ricochet and Randy Orton. The issue? Orton is critical of the in ring style of Ricochet. Orton doesn't believe Ricochet can get to the next level with his high risk style. Ricochet tells Orton that his style CAN work. Ricochet eventually earns the respect of Orton when he defeats Orton for the #1 Contender's match for the Universal Championship.

Very simple.
 

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Registered
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There's a YouTube channel where the user uploads old WWF recaps from 1987 to late 1991. While the in ring action was very simplistic, the storylines and character development expose the key elements missing from today's WWE.

One of the biggest aspects missing from today is wrestlers having issues with other wrestlers. That was a fixture in the old WWF. Without even looking at Wikipedia I can quickly recap the issues Jake The Snake Robert's had in his WWF run:

- Rick Rude hitting on his wife
- Andre is afraid of snakes
- The greed of Ted DiBiase
- Rats and Snakes
- Vision problems
- Damien is dead... a change in attitude

It's not that hard to do that with today's roster, yet WWE makes it tough. Here's an easy storyline they can create between Ricochet and Randy Orton. The issue? Orton is critical of the in ring style of Ricochet. Orton doesn't believe Ricochet can get to the next level with his high risk style. Ricochet tells Orton that his style CAN work. Ricochet eventually earns the respect of Orton when he defeats Orton for the #1 Contender's match for the Universal Championship.

Very simple.
GReat point! Just thinking of some of the clear motivations of some of the other feuds:

Rick Rude:
Who had the best body (Orndorff)
Jakes wife (Roberts)
IC Title (Warrior)
Man who distracted Rude at SS (Piper)
World title (Warrior)
Insulting Boss Man’s mother (Boss Man)

Jim Duggan
Defending USA (Volkoff, Shiek)
Defeating a bully (Andre)
Defending a crown (Haku)
America’s honor (Yokozuna)

Brutus Beefcake
Accidentally received haircut (Adonis)
Breakup of Dream Team (Valentine)
Guitar shot (Honkytonk Man)
Helping Hogan (Savage/Zeus)
Cutting Genius’ hair (Perfect)
 

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F*** This indy flippy shit
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2,059 Posts
I stopped even DVRing after Hell in a Cell and nothing changing with the move to Fox. Just follow the recaps and occasional YouTube clips.

This is the most uninteresting roster I can recall. There is absolutely no star power. Aside from a handful of people it’s just charisma vacuums.

I used to think there would be hope once Vince is gone, but after seeing what Triple H has done to post-Dusty Rhodes NXT, it doesn’t seem like that will help either.

I couldn’t watch 5 minutes of AEW, but at least they know who their audience is and plays to their fans. WWE is in this weird place where they want to appeal to everyone but entertain no one. At least during the Attitude Era the show was geared towards the male 18-34 demographic. Now it’s just bland as fuck. I honestly can’t understand how people are watching this stuff. NXT is the only thing I can somewhat watch, but losing interest in that by the week since it became a glorified indy.
 

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I stopped even DVRing after Hell in a Cell and nothing changing with the move to Fox. Just follow the recaps and occasional YouTube clips.

This is the most uninteresting roster I can recall. There is absolutely no star power. Aside from a handful of people it’s just charisma vacuums.

I used to think there would be hope once Vince is gone, but after seeing what Triple H has done to post-Dusty Rhodes NXT, it doesn’t seem like that will help either.

I couldn’t watch 5 minutes of AEW, but at least they know who their audience is and plays to their fans. WWE is in this weird place where they want to appeal to everyone but entertain no one. At least during the Attitude Era the show was geared towards the male 18-34 demographic. Now it’s just bland as fuck. I honestly can’t understand how people are watching this stuff. NXT is the only thing I can somewhat watch, but losing interest in that by the week since it became a glorified indy.
If you were a fan of oldschool nxt I think nwa powerr might be for you. Every episode is on youtube. They have a similair fighting spirit hard hitting sports type show.
 

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The talent is not there.

Yes, they can flip but those types of talents have been prioritised at the expense of genuinely entertaining characters in real life.

In real life, Ric Flair is a personality.

Seth Rollins is not.

They’ve taken themselves too seriously by building a roster full of serious in-ring talents who have little talent at actually knowing how to entertain.
 

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HEADBANGA
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21,942 Posts
I'm a lifelong WWE fan and I feel like I'm at my wits end with their main shows. They're creatively bankrupt and its painfully obvious. I used to to just enjoy just seeing my favorite performers and enjoy the parts that I liked but that's not even possible these days. It's crazy that I more look forward to watching NWA and AEW more than I do watching WWE.
 

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alexa = greatest of all time!
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you dont need stars! the WWE brand is the draw! :vince
 

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You're right with a lot of what you said. I'm not sure myself, it could be so many different things that are causing it to not be as fun. Something that not many people mention is the fact that this is the first time we truly don't have a face of the company. Someone you can count on to be there every week and get reactions, and have EVERYONE talking about. Say what you want about Cena, but when he did things everyone would be talking about it, whether they loved or hated him. It also helps that he was great on the mic and they definitely knew he was the face, you could also see the role as a host, somewhat.

I also feel like the titles are over-saturated now, I really don't think NXT needs an NA Championship, we don't need a 24/7 title, I also don't even currently know who the Intercontinental champ is. They should also cut a TONNE of wrestlers so they don't feel forced to give them TV time, which also would help with the backstage morale when you don't have half the locker-room pissed off that they're either not on TV, or barely featured. Many things also do not feel organic right now, the reason Kofi's WM run was fucking loved, was because WE chose him, WE wanted it to happen, and it clearly wasn't the original plan. It doesn't feel like people get title opportunities, and pushed based off popularity any more, which would make people lose interest due to not caring for the people involved. I feel like there's a lot of reasons for the downturn in people's interest, they have to fix a lot of different things. We will have to see what happens during the RTWM, and immediately after to know if things are going to be getting better/changing.
 
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