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"The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fake."

This was said by Jim Cornette on his podcast this week.

How do you guys feel about this? With stuff like Shibata's injuries, Bryan retiring, Sheamus knocking Jeff's tooth out and being generally reckless. Cornette thinks they are setting a very sad precedent no matter what company he watches ROH, Impact, WWE, New Japan whatever.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Jim's an entertaining guy and has forgotten more about wrestling than I'll ever know, but at some point old people complaining about how everything sucks now and the past was so much better become unbearable and are just tuned out.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Jim still just mad it's not no longer the 1980's and his thoughts are outdated and lame.

"The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other back then". Why did Jake knock Steamboat out cold in 1986 if that's the case? Why is there the famous story of Andre just punching Warrior in the face? Why did Kawada have to wrestle a 25-35 minute match with Misawa after getting his arm broken in the first 3 minutes of that match? How did Saturn get his knee absolutely ripped apart in ECW in 1997? How did Rick Rude's career end? Injuries happened back then. People did stupid things back then. People do stupid things now. Cornette, Russo, and Disco are morons.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

I never thought it was real, even back then. I knew it was all an act ever since I first watched it so I don't really agree.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

I appreciate a little stiffness every now and then, but I'll watch MMA when I want to see people legitimately beat the shit out of each other. When I watch pro wrestling I expect to see acrobatics, feats of strength and the over the top drama that comes with it. I would honestly rather see pro wrestlers err more on the side of caution when it comes to their's and their opponent's health, especially in the WWE where the talent is expected to work hellish schedules.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Yeah well...there was also no internet in the 80s where people could gather and discuss the ins and outs of the business, helping spread the fact that its fake. Once upon a time, kayfabe was heavily protected. When you get something like the internet, that goes right out the window. Without the internet, it was a lot easier to keep secrets managed, no different than magicians and their craft.

As a result, to really get themselves over to a larger degree, some workers have decided that they need to work even more stiffly to regain some lost ground. I wish they didn't, but that's kind of the culture we have today.

To be honest, I feel the internet does ruin a lot of things. When a movie got released back in the day, it was mainly rumors in magazines and stuff, then you'd see a trailer and it was like "OH SHIT, ITS HAPPENING!" And you'd let the excitement build. Now, a movie gets announced years in advance and every minute detail down to the producer's assistant's boyfriend's aunt's goddaughter's maiden name is fucking revealed. The internet leaves no stone unturned, and as a result, it kills a lot of the anticipation be spoiling a lot of stuff, I find. That's why with certain things, I deliberately ignore the internet.

I mean geez, look at the beginning of this latest season of Walking Dead. They did a great job keeping people guessing which main character was going to die...and then once it happened on TV, within seconds, the internet was shitting their pants over it, spoiling it everywhere with twitter, facebook and whatnot for people who didn't see it live (for example, my friend, who was really pissed when she was on her way home from work that night to watch the episode and got a message from facebook, which was someone on her feed spoiling it for her). Its almost better not knowing a lot of the time.

So with all of this info...they expect to keep the secret that wrestling is fake safe? Sorry Jim, but times are changing. Its not wrestling styles that are the issue, but wrestling in general. The industry relies on keeping marks ignorant of how they ply their trade and when the giant global spoiler that is the internet comes around, wrestling is gonna take a beating.

And for the record, back in the day...yeah, the boys DID beat the shit out of each other. Vader, Hansen, Brody, the Funks, Williams, Gordy, Abdullah, Cactus, the Road Warriors...all were known for working very snug. And Cornette LOVED most of these guys, as far as I know. I believe in one shoot the New Age Outlaws did, Road Dogg commented that "Terry Funk would hit you with a left hand that would knock your dick still."


4:20

 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

He is right to a degree. Watch any old ppv from wcw or wwe in the 80's. The matches might be dated but the punches,kicks and elbows back then look so much better.Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk punches while incredibly safe also look pretty brutal and authentic.
 

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Jim's an entertaining guy and has forgotten more about wrestling than I'll ever know, but at some point old people complaining about how everything sucks now and the past was so much better become unbearable and are just tuned out.
They need to know that the business does have to evolve once in a while... WWE is still doing the same format they've done for the last 20 years, yet the likes of Cornette and Rip Rogers want it to go back to the 80s and early 90s old school style and talk about how high flying wrestlers are "spot monkeys", despite there being a huge difference between the likes of Austin Aries, Seth Rollins, Neville (his slower style since turning heel destroys the "spot monkey" label for him), Matt Sydal, and Semi Zayn, and the likes of the Young Bucks, Jack Evans, Sabu, Shane McMahon, etc. who really do know very little mat wrestling. I think the older style worked then because people thought it was real (I did for YEARS), and now that it's common knowledge that wrestling is scripted, people want to be entertained, and the Indy style does just that, though there are a few who don't tell a story and just do the moves, but there are a LOT of power wrestlers who do/did just that, like Khali. They were pretty common in the last few years before the wellness policy (Nathan Jones, Heidenreich, Snitsky, Tomko, Masters, Luther Reigns, Jindrak, Batista, Matt Morgan, Lashley, Test, etc. Some of them eventually became good but not during this time), yet don't get the rep that high flyers who lack psychology do, likely because the big guys who lacked real storytelling ability were around longer (Giant Gonzalez, Mabel, Kurrgan, Harris Brothers, Natural Disasters, Warlord, Bastion Booger, Warrior, Luger, Dino Bravo, Giant Silva, Sid, Nash, etc.), while WCW's cruiserweight division was what brought high flying to the mainstream.

The business went into a decline in the early/mid 90s because the old school stuff wasn't drawing anymore (WWF started declining around the time of the Hogan/Slaughter Iraqi angle and it really got bad in the mid 90s when they had the occupation gimmicks and tried giving Luger and Diesel main event pushes, and WCW was struggling under the management of Jim Herd and Bill Watts and then were the few years where they tried to copy WWF's cartoon style before Hall and Nash and the NWO, which led to the edgy stuff becoming mainstream, and ECW (ran by Paul Heyman, who is known to adjust with the times, as he booked a workrate based product on Smackdown in 2002, different than the hardcore ECW and sports entertainment dominated Raw at the time) was on fire in the mid 90s while WWF and WCW were struggling because they were being edgy and providing better wrestling than both at the time. TNA had it right in 2005-2006 when Scott D'Amore was booking, as like Heyman, he was booking a wrestling-based product with a balance of wrestling and entertainment, and in 2012 and most of 2013 when Bruce Prichard was there, but they rehired Russo (who brought the current sports entertainment style WWE has today to the mainstream, but with LESS balance between wrestling and entertainment) twice, once secretly, and ruined their momentum each time. Like nearly everything else, wrestling needs to evolve with the times.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

I actually don't think this. When I watched Omega vs. Okada at WK I SAW the damage Okada was withstanding, the amount of punishment both men took shocked me, it was awesome.


I know that a lot of it isn't real, but they are ENTERTAINING me. It's art. I don't care if it's fake, so is most of all TV programming, so are musical plays, so are fiction books.

I get that it's fake, but I know that if someone headbutts the other and is bleeding from his skull and he looks dazed I'm not gonna say "Pffft whatever this is so fake."
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Erm....injuries have always been common place
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Supposedly Jim Cornette threatened to shoot Wade Keller and his mother. They thought it was real and Jim Cornette is a scary psycho.

edit: He also threatened to cut the staff with a knife while ordering fast food. Not sure if the staff thought that was real.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

wasn't he talking about ECW?
 
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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

I think many wrestlers work stiffer to feel like they're pushing themselves physically and to overcompensate for them participating in a "fake" sport. Oh yeah, back in the day, the boys would chop each others' chests until they drew blood, Cornette.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

As much as I dislike him. Got to admit he's got a point.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Of course the first instinct of many will be to bash Cornette and his old-timer sounding ways - and admittedly, he has a fetish for the halcyon days of the past - but I see a little of what he's saying here.

There are a lot of unsafe practices in wrestling today. I don't know how different it is now to say, back in 1983, so I don't know if the situation is generally worse or not.
 

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He's basically saying modern wrestlers are losing the art of protecting each other.

I think the whole industry is too insecure about being called fake.

Embrace it and adopt a Hollywood-style of fakeness instead of an MMA-light style of realism.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

some wrestlers have a real "truth hurts" problem with wrestling being called "fake"

wrestling is very much real from the standpoint that they take very real risks probably more so than other sports, least MMA fights dont have to jump from the top rope right down the announce table for example but it falls more in the realm of stunt work.

wrestling is still very much fake in that a TV show is fake, its annoying to hear from the announcers that the undertakers streak is the greatest streak in sports while comparing it to winning the superbowl or NBA finals for 15+ years in a row, its not the greatest streak in sports because it was planned to happen, there was no danger it would end by real means, its just a ridiculous statement to make, they are fooling no-one, making such statements just pisses off people who actually work in real sports and puts wrestling on a platform to be laughed at.

some wrestlers let this predetermined success go to their head and then get all salty at people saying its not real because it makes their achievements seem non important, they want to believe that people really think they are the character they are on TV when in reality this character is being created and given wins and losses in boardroom somewhere, they arnt actually achieving these titles and wins.

as its been said, just accept that people know its fake and therefore stop striving for "realism"
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

Jim still just mad it's not no longer the 1980's and his thoughts are outdated and lame.

"The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other back then". Why did Jake knock Steamboat out cold in 1986 if that's the case? Why is there the famous story of Andre just punching Warrior in the face? Why did Kawada have to wrestle a 25-35 minute match with Misawa after getting his arm broken in the first 3 minutes of that match? How did Saturn get his knee absolutely ripped apart in ECW in 1997? How did Rick Rude's career end? Injuries happened back then. People did stupid things back then. People do stupid things now. Cornette, Russo, and Disco are morons.
If you're referring to the DDT onto the concrete from Jake, to his defense he warned Vince it was a bad idea and that he wasn't comfortable doing it and Vince insisted.
 

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Re: "The boys didn't beat the shit out of each other, people thought it was real. The boys now beat the shit out of each other and people know its fak

This was said by Jim Cornette on his podcast this week.

How do you guys feel about this? With stuff like Shibata's injuries, Bryan retiring, Sheamus knocking Jeff's tooth out and being generally reckless. Cornette thinks they are setting a very sad precedent no matter what company he watches ROH, Impact, WWE, New Japan whatever.
Jim always brags about how tough guys were back then and would beat eachother up , were stiff etc etc . Now he's saying they were all easy safe workers? Jim's a hypocrite and you can't take him too seriously when he talks about wrestling today.
 
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