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Overness
Charisma/Mic Skills
In ring ability
Marketable look

After going over all the past and present champions it seems to me that most legends of the business had all 4 bases covered, most multiple time champions had 3 bases covered and only a handfull of lucky ones got there with 2 bases covered. And untill recently i couldnt think of any who only had one.

Guys like Stone Cold, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels etc had all 4 boxes ticked and are rightly legends of the biz

Most champs fall into the 3 star category, usually there is a weakness somewhere, like say Bret Hart with his mic skills. He had the other 3 covered and was justifiably a multiple time champ.

Having 2 bases covered is alot harder to get there, only guys like Benoit (in ring and overness) and Jeff Hardy (overness and Marketable look) have got there with 2 stars because they were the absolute best in the biz at 1 or 2 of these. And as a result allmost forced there way into a reign or 2 as Champ.

Its not untill more recently with this "youth movement" that we start to see guys like Sheamus and Jack Swagger get title reigns with 1 or arguably 0 of these qualities covered. Being ok at some or all of these shouldnt be good enough. A guy like Mysterio got there because he is over as fuck, has a marketable look and puts on great matches (he ticks 3 boxes). Jack Swagger could probably lay claim to in ring skill alone, and this simply should not be good enough. This also brings me to guys like Christian who tick 2 or even 3 of these boxes yet dont get opportunities to be world champ (going back its hard to find many who hold these qualities that didnt get there).

Basically what im trying to get at, is if you dont have atleast 2 of these abilities covered and be the absolute best in the biz at 1 of them, then you shouldnt be getting a title reign. Period

What are your thoughts on how many stars each current main event player posesses. Who doesnt deserve to be there and who will get there based on their abilities. Example, i believe Cena to be a 3.5 star guy he has overness, Marketable look, charisma/mic skills, but half a point for in ring and is rightly so a multiple time champ. Someone like ADR i would give 3 stars (Overness, Charisma/mic, and in ring) and i believe he will deservedly become champ.
 

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Overness
Charisma/Mic Skills
In ring ability
Marketable look
You forgot the most important one of all, backstage politics.

e.g. look at HHH objectively. Some charisma. Pretty good in-ring. But went far, far beyond where he should have due to 3 things. 1) Vince loves big men, HH bulked up a LOT. 2) the Kliq 3) the bosses' daughter.
 

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Overness
Charisma/Mic Skills
In ring ability
Marketable look

After going over all the past and present champions it seems to me that most legends of the business had all 4 bases covered, most multiple time champions had 3 bases covered and only a handfull of lucky ones got there with 2 bases covered. And untill recently i couldnt think of any who only had one.

Guys like Stone Cold, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels etc had all 4 boxes ticked and are rightly legends of the biz

Most champs fall into the 3 star category, usually there is a weakness somewhere, like say Bret Hart with his mic skills. He had the other 3 covered and was justifiably a multiple time champ.

Having 2 bases covered is alot harder to get there, only guys like Benoit (in ring and overness) and Jeff Hardy (overness and Marketable look) have got there with 2 stars because they were the absolute best in the biz at 1 or 2 of these. And as a result allmost forced there way into a reign or 2 as Champ.

Its not untill more recently with this "youth movement" that we start to see guys like Sheamus and Jack Swagger get title reigns with 1 or arguably 0 of these qualities covered. Being ok at some or all of these shouldnt be good enough. A guy like Mysterio got there because he is over as fuck, has a marketable look and puts on great matches (he ticks 3 boxes). Jack Swagger could probably lay claim to in ring skill alone, and this simply should not be good enough. This also brings me to guys like Christian who tick 2 or even 3 of these boxes yet dont get opportunities to be world champ (going back its hard to find many who hold these qualities that didnt get there).

Basically what im trying to get at, is if you dont have atleast 2 of these abilities covered and be the absolute best in the biz at 1 of them, then you shouldnt be getting a title reign. Period

What are your thoughts on how many stars each current main event player posesses. Who doesnt deserve to be there and who will get there based on their abilities. Example, i believe Cena to be a 3.5 star guy he has overness, Marketable look, charisma/mic skills, but half a point for in ring and is rightly so a multiple time champ. Someone like ADR i would give 3 stars (Overness, Charisma/mic, and in ring) and i believe he will deservedly become champ.
Great thread, I think the WWE is shifting away from great in ring ability, and mic skills (to a degree). They are more inclined to wrestler's who are over and have a marketable look. As a fan, I don't like it but I know it's a buisness and the target audience (the kids) could careless about great in ring ability. But I think the main problem with the wwe over the year's is that it ranks a marketable look over any of the other factors. That's why guys like Hardy, Sheamus, Khali, and (pre 2010)Batista win world championships, while guys like Roddy Piper, Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Jake the Snake, and most recently Christian who have 3 out of the 4 main factors, (barring the marketable look), don't win championships.
 

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You forgot the most important one of all, backstage politics.

e.g. look at HHH objectively. Some charisma. Pretty good in-ring. But went far, far beyond where he should have due to 3 things. 1) Vince loves big men, HH bulked up a LOT. 2) the Kliq 3) the bosses' daughter.
I disagree. Looking at HHH objectively, he's very over as a heel or a face, he's a very good mic worker, is reasonably charismatic, has a very marketable appearance, and he's a solid worker who has put on numerous great matches.

Hell, I'm not personally a fan of the guy, but using this criteria, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't have pushed him, relationship with the boss' daughter or not.
 

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Politics is so huge in the wrestling business. Sheamus, Orton, and Batista would never have gotten championship reigns if they hadn't been buddies with Trips.
 

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I'll give Jeff Hardy 3, with in ring ability. Smarks always talk about 'ring work' in the sense of mat wrestling skill and stuff like that. Guys like Jeff hardy, RVD, Rey misterio, etc are great ring workers as far as entertainment value goes. They do cool stuff that you can't. While I appreciate the experience of guys like Benoit or bret hart, and their ability to have a decent match with anyone, I probably would rather watch a 'spot monkey' who can do things that the average person can't or doesnt have the balls to do. It is just more interesting to me as a fan. So while some guys might have more respect from other wrestlers, as a viewer, I find the stunt guys and freak athlete guys far more watchable
 

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You forgot the most important one of all, backstage politics.

e.g. look at HHH objectively. Some charisma. Pretty good in-ring. But went far, far beyond where he should have due to 3 things. 1) Vince loves big men, HH bulked up a LOT. 2) the Kliq 3) the bosses' daughter.
He was a multiple champ before ever hooking up with Steph. Plus you're not looking at the guy objectively.

He was a brilliant heel and therefore deserved his run. Many would argue politics kept him there too long, then you'd have an argument.
 

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Benoit and Hardy both had charisma. Just a different kind. Mic Skills and Charisma shouldn't be lumped together. Otherwise, I agree with the OP.
 

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I agree with the thread in principle, but I think a lot of the criteria is pretty objective, for example some people think The Miz would tick the box for charisma, I personally think it is quite easy to mistake charisma for idiocy. Or a 'marketable look' to some extent or another is dictated by the stylists, eg The Undertaker would not maybe have had such a 'marketable look' if he had a different guimmick and therefore different attire.
 

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You wrote that WHOOOLLLLEEE shit out... just to bitch that Christian hasn't got a title??? fuck man
 

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Politics isnt really anything to do with it. Its all about how good you are, the drive you have, and if you're marketable. If you tick all three boxes, then the guys upstairs are gonna push you.
 

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I disagree. Looking at HHH objectively, he's very over as a heel or a face, he's a very good mic worker, is reasonably charismatic, has a very marketable appearance, and he's a solid worker who has put on numerous great matches.

Hell, I'm not personally a fan of the guy, but using this criteria, I can't see a reason why they wouldn't have pushed him, relationship with the boss' daughter or not.
LOL. Yeah right. Very over as heel or face when it took guys putting his ass over for months when he was getting dead reactions and being no sold in 1999.
 

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Celestial Messiah
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LOL. Yeah right. Very over as heel or face when it took guys putting his ass over for months when he was getting dead reactions and being no sold in 1999.
And he had most of MSG behind him in 1998 when he wrestled The Rock. Triple H was pretty goddamn over when he was in DX. And pretty fucking over when he became The Game. 1999 was just a transitional period. But when Foley put him over in their Street fight his career and overness just took off like no tomorrow. All he needed was that one match to solidify him as a top talent.
 

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4 ways to be pushed as top guy:

Who's your daddy, and what does he do?
Who's your life partner, and what does he/she do?
Who's your gym partner, and what does he do?
Who's your tag partner? if it's Ted DiBiase or DH smith, leave ASAP
 

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Celestial Messiah
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Wrestling hasnt been important in drawing. Ever. Only exception was Bob Backlund. Even Sammartino, the guy who held the title for almost a decade, wasnt that great in the ring back then. Nature Boy Buddy Rogers, the father of modern wrestling, was a hell of a wrestler, but even he wasnt as good as others. The reason they stood out was because they had an aura about them. Charisma. People were drawn to them. To this day, nobody quite understands what it is, but they had it.

Lets face it, if all that mattered in wrestling was wrestling, we'd all be watching some pretty dull guys in the ring. Even Flair, a masterclass wrestler, needed his charisma, mic skills to BE the man.
 

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LOL. Yeah right. Very over as heel or face when it took guys putting his ass over for months when he was getting dead reactions and being no sold in 1999.
I must have missed the memo where suddenly a guy being over didn't count if they got popular/hated as a result of a push.
 
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