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TDL III: The War of '09 - The Results

2K views 35 replies 22 participants last post by  bruteshot74 
#1 ·
Again thank you for all your patience. Taking a week to do the results is not something we plan on but unfortunately such is life as they say. Reading into the results you will understand why this delay happened though.

Mac, Monty, TLK and I judged the debates with a special appearance from BDFW who helped judge the MMA debates. So a huge thank you from us to you BDFW. :)

Alright here they are:



Match #12 - SteveMania vs. Brye vs. Josh

Mac - SteveMania - [StanVanGundy]UGH! JOSH! YOU'RE KILLING US!! UGH!![/StanVanGundy] At least you managed to put something forward, though.

Monty - SteveMania - Josh made really good points, but was overwhelmed by Stevemania's arguments. I would have loved to see this if Josh had gone to town with his thinking and really gave his debate some "oomf". As it was, another great showing from SteveMania gets the win, and throws down the gauntlet to the rest of the MMA division. Someone needs to step up to the plate.

BDFW - SteveMania - When I saw Josh and Steve Mania were going to debate against each other, I thought this could be very interesting……but it wasn’t. Steve Mania does what he always does and went into extreme depth. It was a good debate, not the easiest subject to debate about, but I found it a strong debate. The mentioning of the pills not having a positive effect on his fights and the excitement that Karo Pariysan brings to his fights really helped make this a strong debate. Josh’s debate was pretty weak and I expected better.

The debate for the MMA Championship will be very interesting and if I was a betting man, I would be putting my money on Steve Mania holding the Championship sooner rather then later.

Winner - SteveMania via Unanimous Decision (***1/2)
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Match #11 - Metal X vs. bruteshot74

Monty - Hello plate. A no show gives bruteshot the walkover, but a really strong debate deserves mention. Nicely done.

Winner - bruteshot74 via forfeit
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Match #10 - Overrated vs. Mikey Damage

Monty - Mikey Damage - Both men took the same stance on this, but one man's reasoning ensured the win. Overrated made the sound point that GSP's loss to Serra is a big factor. However, that was the only real strong point made. If GSP isn't, a strong case should be made for who is. Mikey did just this.

BDFW - Mikey Damage - Both of the debaters went with ‘No’ and that was really the only answer you could successfully debate. I feel that Overrated didn’t really acknowledge the achievements of Anderson Silva and Fedor Emelianenko careers. Mikey Damage’s debate was set out well, well explained and just went into more depth then Overrated’s debate.

Mac - Mikey Damage - Dangerously close to not given you the duke due to my obsession with Scottie Pippen never getting his just due as one of the best players of his generation. Same argument - NCIH used more detail and effort.

Winner - Mikey Damage via Unanimous Decision (***1/2)
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Match #9 - Hawt Es vs. Killswitch

Monty - Another walkover, but it should be said that Killswitch gets super extra bonus points for a fantastic tabloid cover. Tickled me just right.

Winner - Killswitch via Forfeit
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Match #8 - enteralhellfire vs. Ruck Fules vs. Stone Cold sXe

Monty - enternalhellfire - :no:

Ruck Fules - :no: refer to rant

Stone Cold sXe - :agree:

One no show, one copied show, and one tremendous argument.

To be fair, even against Ruck Fules' copied argument, sXe would still have won. Great use of vernacular and language made this a great read. Loved it.

Mac - sxe via plagiarism. C*nt.

TLK - Ruck Fules has been Monty'd.

Winner - Stone Cold sXe via DQ (***3/4)
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Match #7 - Maxx Hero vs. CM Dealer

Aussie - Maxx for someone that talked up how good he was, you really are a disappointment. Dealer, great showing.

Mac - Dealer via plagiarism

Monty - Maxx you're a disgrace. Please refer to rant.

CM Dealer, I enjoyed this, but I felt you missed a beat when you said "However, since the question asks if anything should be debated, the answer is yes, some things should be debated."

The question didn't ask whether anything should be debated, it asked whether it's appropriate to debate anything...ie if everything should be debated.

None the less, I enjoyed the rest of it.

Winner - CM Dealer via DQ (***1/2)
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Match #6 - Aussie vs. Porn Freak vs. Nov

TLK - Aussie - Very, very close debate. PF was straight to the point, though he didn't really choose a stance so I can't really side with his effort. Nov's argument was very convincing. I felt that he relied a bit too heavily on personal opinion though, something Aussie did not do. She cited references and deliberately defined all aspects of the topic at hand. Although I'm not sure I agree with her stance as much as I did Nov's, before reading these debates, Aussie's stance was so convincing that I have no doubts now. Very good exchange.

Monty - Aussie - Fantastic debate. One for, one against, and one undecided.

Porn Freaks piece was well written, but when put beside two passionate arguments on either side of the spectrum, it cannot be deemed victorious. I would suggest not being so honest for your next debate and pick one side or the other :)

Nov's argument really resonated with me, as it mostly mirrored my own feelings on the subject. For parts of it, it felt like I was writing it. Aussie made some irrefutable points that, although I disagreed with, I couldn't find much fault with.

Very tough call to make. However, Nov didn't address the downside of Euthanasia, while Aussie did flirt with the positives of it. It made for a more balanced argument.

Mac - Aussie - Kylie did the research, she explained the topic, and completely owned it... but she didn't need to. Quite frankly, her competitors couldn't keep up.

Winner - Aussie via Unanimous Decision (****1/4)

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Match #5 - MrMonty vs. Bouma vs. benmanrocky vs. Destros Secret

Mac - Draw: Monty/DestrosSecret - oshat. Damned impressed with DestrosSecret's debate. Everybody expects epicness from Monty, but DS more than held his own with The Fighting Debating Irish Bastard. His debate was lucid, and he covered the two major points of this debate extensively...as did Monty. Just incredible shit. Rematch plz.

TLK - Draw: Monty/DestrosSecret - Wow. What a great trio of debates. This was a tough topic to tackle given the sensitivity of religion in everyday life. benmanrocky put forth a great effort, albeit a little overshadowed by the in-depth breakdown of the topic by his two opponents. Both destros and Monty did an excellent job dividing the notion of religious freedom into two aspects, drawing upon both with multiple concrete references. I enjoyed the way both went about this, and it's nearly impossible for me to choose between the two. I'd love a rematch between these two, headlining the Non-Wrestling Division.

Aussie - DestrosSecret - Could you guys make the decision any harder? I've been pondering over this debate for the longest time and I'm pulling my hair out. Benman, you put up a great debate with excellent points. You definitely have a bright spot on the Non-Wrestling roster. However mate you were overshadowed by two debates that blew me away and then some. Monty and DS, your debates were incredible. Points clear and concise and the arguments were fantastic. I'm going with Destros because after reading the debates over and over, his debate I found more passion within it (funny how a person can pick that from words typed) and I found you really went above and beyond. And again that is not to discredit Monty or benmanrocky. Incredible debate for a very sensitive topic. My Debate of the Night.

Winner - Draw between Monty and DestrosSecret (****3/4)
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Match #4 - Perfect Poster vs. Austin101 vs. jbloser vs. Seabs

TLK - Draw - I felt both debates touched on some of the same points, yet missed a key one - money/female fanbase. The divas still generate funds or they wouldn't be on the show. To say that fans don't tune into the product to see women's wrestling is a faulty assumption. We don't really know this for sure. The Beth/Santino angle was great, and Mickie James still gets a good pop every time she comes to the ring. If they make Vince money, they're legit. Tough topic, and I thought both gave it a great effort.

Monty - Seabs - Austin101 was quite clear, he doesn't like womens wrestling, but he does see some market for them. Seabs was also quite clear, that they offer nothing to the show.

This was a very even debate, and difficult to pick the two apart. However, I felt that Seabs argument had a better flow and better illustrated how his personal feelings are represented by the market and the business.

PS: Austin brush up on your there/their/they're and your apostrophes ;)

Aussie - Seabs - Another really great debate to read. Seabs pulled off the stronger debate with what I believed were clearer arguments. However while you both state your case very well, I believe both debates would have benefited from knocking the opposing side down more. Showing how the ratings don't change with Women's Wrestling and so forth. Other than that, great showing.

Winner - Seabs via Split Decision (***3/4)
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Match #3 - bigcal vs. Starrcade vs. Ownage

Aussie - Ownage - bigcal, I liked where you were going with it but then it just confused the hell out of me. :$ Were you for or against the topic? You seemed to be both which doesn't make a strong convincing debate. Starrcade you put up a decent fight up until the last paragraph when you completely contradicted yourself. You started off saying that the fans do decide the champion, then at the end say they don't. Ownage, yours was excellent and you hit the nail on the head with every point you made.

Mac - Ownage - Oh ho ho ho, Ownage widening the parameters of fans from those who pay money to the potential markets of India was genius to counteract ('indirectly') cal's argument. Bueno.

TLK - Ownage - Similar debates all around as far as format goes, but Ownage's debate stood out the most. At first I thought it was a gutsy move saying that fans ALWAYS decide the champion, especially after having just read bigcal's convincing argument, but Ownage made it work. Turning the bit about The Great Khali into a business move for Indian fans was great, and really helped his argument. Starrcade did an excellent job too, and this was really close to call.

Monty's Thoughts - Smashing topic if I do say so myself.

bigcal said that the fans do not always choose the champion. He made excellent points for when fans do choose the champion, but had the example of The Great Khali as a champion who simply was not over in the slightest. By this reasoning, he could not say fans always decide the champion.

Ownage decided that fans do always decide the champion. He made points that mirrored what bigcal said about when fans do decide the champion. He also tackled the issue of Khali, pointing out his exposure gave WWE a big target market in South Asia. He gave the example of another unpopular champion, Mark Henry, and shot that down as well.

Starrcade used several recent champions, possibly unexpected ones, that exampled how the fans do choose a champion.

Who wins? Difficult one. I discount Starrcade as his whole argument was making the point of yes, fans do decide champions, then he makes the statement of no, fans don't always decide the champion. There needs to be more explanation as to why, not just stating Khali as an example.

bigcal and Ownage. I gotta give it to Ownage. I thought bigcal was right on the money with all his points, but he failed to address the issue of Khali's overseas fans which was a big factor.

Winner - Ownage via Unanimous Decision (****1/4)
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Match #2 - gmkhercules vs. Chain Gang Soldier vs. BreakTheWalls

Monty - BreakTheWalls - One against and two for. Good stuff :D

gmkhercules points about the crowd no longer hating Mr McMahon ring very true. He also makes the distinction between the character Mr McMahon and the character Vince McMahon, which is important to remember.

BTW uses McMahon's most recent outing on the show as an example of how little has changed from times gone by. He illustrates how McMahon can still push a superstar to a more over position.

Chain Gang Soldier primarily used figures to show that McMahon's recent appearances on WWE have shown a jump in ratings, showing how he still very much does have a place on WWE television.

3 excellent debates, very little to pick them apart. Trying to see any faults, gmk made the point that McMahon did not need to involve himself in setting up Randy HHH...but he did draw ratings by doing so. BTW made the point that McMahon hasn't lost his overness with the crowd...but he has that overness(that can't be a word) as both Vince and as Mr McMahon. Chain Gang ended with the sentiment that McMahon is one of the most popular guys in the business...but similar to BTW he is that popular simply as the man who he is; the distinction between Vince and Mr McMahon was not addressed.

I have to pick a winner, as such I must say Break The Walls. I felt gmk's downfall was not addressing how the Mr McMahon character has evolved, and his recent appearances in a very Mr McMahon way have shown increased ratings. BTW and and CGS debates were very similar, but I felt BTW's was more well rounded.

Outstanding debates. Match of the PPV.

Aussie - BreakTheWalls - I really thoroughly enjoyed this match. You all did a great job presenting your arguments and made this a very tough choice. BreakTheWalls takes this one (only barely though) as I felt there were a few little holes in gmk's debate and it came across a little more definitive than CGS'. Had CGS delved just that tiny bit further into the debate, you probably would have had my vote. But all in all, really great effort from you all.

Mac - BreakTheWalls - I was rather impressed by gmk's debate, but BTW's debate blew his away as he not only backed it up with facts (the television rating for Mr. McMahon's return), but kept a solid flow that wasn't present in Chain Gang Soldier's.

Winner - BreakTheWalls via Unanimous Decision (****1/2)
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Match #1 - DDMac vs. Super Delfin

TLK - Delfin - Very similar debates, but Delfin looked at both sides of the argument from a wrestler's standpoint, which I thought was a good touch. Mac is right in the sense that stars should pass the torch on their way out, but Delfin completed the point by stating it has to be to the right guy at the right time, and by someone whose morals are still intact. Good stuff.

Monty - Super Delfin - Clearly not Mac's best work. Sucks how busy you are bud. You got creamed :(

Delfin came through with a cracking debate and strolled it.

Aussie - Super Delfin - Awww Mac, I'm guessing you're starting to wish Delfin no showed. :$ You're right, it's nowhere near your best and Delfin took you to the cleaners (still <3 for you though). Delfin, great arguments and well deserved win.

Winner - Super Delfin via Unanimous Decision (***1/2)
 
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#9 ·
Seems like there are a few pricks that got out of line this show.

I'd have dealt with them if I hadn't taken my ball.
 
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