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I haven't seen many people not say the moment was great. It's the failures AFTER the moment that people constantly criticize.
Stone Cold's WM17 Heel Turn
Simple question really: WHY do you so many people look back on this moment as being horrible? A lot of people on here, and a lot of other wrestling fans I've spoken to, seem to regard Austin's heel turn at Wrestlemania X-Seven as being absolutely horrible and...I just don't get why.
It was an amazing moment, came straight the fuck outta left feid, surprised pretty much EVERYONE, and lead to an awesome heel run for Austin. I never liked Austin as a face. His badass, no-nonsense, cavalier attitude just suited a heel so much better in my eyes back then. Hell it still does.
So why do people have such a problem with Austin finally getting to be a total badass without also having to make people like him? I get the heel run wasn't particularly successful, but that was only because everyone was so used to the guy as a face. If you ignore his face stuff beforehand, Austin as a heel was awesome.
Plus, the actual moment itself was kick-ass. Suddenly McMahon appears and hands him a chair, and he goes nuts with it on the Rock to win the match, sharing a beer with the ultimate evil bastard of the WWF. HOW can that be a bad moment?
It was an amazing moment, came straight the fuck outta left feid, surprised pretty much EVERYONE, and lead to an awesome heel run for Austin. I never liked Austin as a face. His badass, no-nonsense, cavalier attitude just suited a heel so much better in my eyes back then. Hell it still does.
So why do people have such a problem with Austin finally getting to be a total badass without also having to make people like him? I get the heel run wasn't particularly successful, but that was only because everyone was so used to the guy as a face. If you ignore his face stuff beforehand, Austin as a heel was awesome.
Plus, the actual moment itself was kick-ass. Suddenly McMahon appears and hands him a chair, and he goes nuts with it on the Rock to win the match, sharing a beer with the ultimate evil bastard of the WWF. HOW can that be a bad moment?
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I personally loved it . When I get older and probably forget about alot of the wwe . That will be the moment I always remember . For me the promos leading up to that match and the match itself are the greatest memories I have of watching Wrestling .
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it's not the turn it's self people hate it's how the heel run played out which is why people hate the Austin heel era
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In hind sight the heel turn was a bad move, but when it happened...it was one of the biggest shockers of all time in WWE. In the words of JR, "Stone Cold selling his soul to the Devil himself". I still remember the Monday after Wrestlemania X-Seven, going to school and all my friends at school who hadn't ordered it were asking me, "Is it true??? Did Austin really join up with Vince???".
The amount of buzz and shock it caused in the wrestling world was pretty amazing, and I think the whole angle had a lot of potential with the creation of the Two Man Power Trip. But that getting derailed with H's quad injury, along with the whole WCW stuff that really messed up what Austin's heel run could have been. I will say though, I always liked how they made him into a paranoid heel champion, obsessed with being on top and having the belt.
The amount of buzz and shock it caused in the wrestling world was pretty amazing, and I think the whole angle had a lot of potential with the creation of the Two Man Power Trip. But that getting derailed with H's quad injury, along with the whole WCW stuff that really messed up what Austin's heel run could have been. I will say though, I always liked how they made him into a paranoid heel champion, obsessed with being on top and having the belt.
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Exactly this. In mitigation the HHH injury kind of screwed up the plans, but the way Austin's character progressed was like a train wreck.
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I just watched this event and here's the problems:
*the fans still cheered even though he cheated to win (it was a hometown crowd)
*jr called it as if it had great heat when it didn't most of the people cheered the rest were confused (confusion is never good)
*vince was (and is) built to be the biggest heel of all time but not even his heat could turn Austin in his hometown
*the aftermath was terrible Austin was a piss poor heel
*and finally him beating the Rocks ass with that chair is a fantastic visual he looked to be on the verge of killing him.
*the fans still cheered even though he cheated to win (it was a hometown crowd)
*jr called it as if it had great heat when it didn't most of the people cheered the rest were confused (confusion is never good)
*vince was (and is) built to be the biggest heel of all time but not even his heat could turn Austin in his hometown
*the aftermath was terrible Austin was a piss poor heel
*and finally him beating the Rocks ass with that chair is a fantastic visual he looked to be on the verge of killing him.
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6,278 Posts
Texas wasn't the place to perform the turn. It WAS shocking, but Austin's hometown crowd refused to give WWE the reaction they wanted. Austin could have stabbed Rocky in the face with an icepick and that crowd still would have cheered him.
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4,953 Posts
They made a few mistakes in the execution of this. Firstly, it was in Texas. I understand that if they did it properly it could have been as big as BATB96 if he turned his own fans against him - but those fans went to see Stone Cold win the title and didn't seem to care how it happened.
Secondly, I think they fucked up the McMahon part. McMahon came out FAR too early and showed his allegience right away too. It made the handshake moment into a "meh" moment. If McMahon had come out right at the end whilst both were down, jumped into the ring with a chair and wound it up like he was going for Austin - then nailed Rock and handed Austin the chair with his evil smile - it'd have looked and came off so much better.
Then Austin would have done his brutal chair beatdown on Rock, pinned him and shaked McMahon's hand.
As it happens, I immensely enjoy that main event regardless of them not achieving their end goal of garbage in the ring and thousands of pissed off Texans. I also enjoyed a lot of his heel work, even though it never got tremendously over and resulted in the start of his decreased stock.
Secondly, I think they fucked up the McMahon part. McMahon came out FAR too early and showed his allegience right away too. It made the handshake moment into a "meh" moment. If McMahon had come out right at the end whilst both were down, jumped into the ring with a chair and wound it up like he was going for Austin - then nailed Rock and handed Austin the chair with his evil smile - it'd have looked and came off so much better.
Then Austin would have done his brutal chair beatdown on Rock, pinned him and shaked McMahon's hand.
As it happens, I immensely enjoy that main event regardless of them not achieving their end goal of garbage in the ring and thousands of pissed off Texans. I also enjoyed a lot of his heel work, even though it never got tremendously over and resulted in the start of his decreased stock.
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9,377 Posts
It was awful. It was completely out of character for Austin to side with McMahon; it was too unrealistic a turn. To make matters worse, the fans still cheered for him. They also butchered the "Stone Cold" gimmick by sticking him in those comedy skits with Angle. It was a total disaster from the start as far as I'm concerned. Also, it was totally unnecessary.
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Yeah. The turn itself was actually pretty awesome and shocking, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do (I think history pretty clearly shows it wasn't) and it doesn't mean that everything else after that moment was executed well - because it certainly was not.
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797 Posts
It blew my fucking mind as a kid, i was shocked and appalled and gutted, not many moments can do that.
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2,348 Posts
It failed because it never made sense.
Austin wasn't suppose to turn, it was suppose to be Rock and he was going to team up with HHH for the Two Man Power Trip. But The Rock leaving to shoot a movie for a few months killed that angle. The turn was so short sighed as well, I mean with Rock gone and Austin who was going to be the top face?
Austin wasn't suppose to turn, it was suppose to be Rock and he was going to team up with HHH for the Two Man Power Trip. But The Rock leaving to shoot a movie for a few months killed that angle. The turn was so short sighed as well, I mean with Rock gone and Austin who was going to be the top face?
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Am I the only one who was a huge fan of Stone Cold's heel run in 2001? I know he was a little bit out of character during the run, but so what. He played a tremendous heel. He showed a real psychotic side to him and really brought it out. As well as that, those comedy skits with Kurt Angle, were some of the funniest moments in wrestling. I had no problem with his heel run at all.
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243 Posts
This angle was so stupid from the SECOND he turned, and I'm glad not everyone was like 'well the turn wasn't a bad idea but it was executed bad', no the whole thing was bad, stupid, and poorly thought out.
And I'm not totally sure on this, but wasn't the rock heel going into Mania 17? If so that would make it that much more stupid because it would be a face turning heel on a heel.
The whole concept of 'great because it's never been done before' isn't one to abuse. Vince Russo has clearly abused it throughout his entire career and shocks for the sake of shocks are stupid. I like being surprised if it makes sense towards the story you're trying to tell, but if you're sacrificing the validity and seriousness of your story in an attempt to shock me big one night? Why the fuck should I care about your shock? It's stupid. This turn was stupid. Austin aligned with McMahon of all people it didn't even make sense.
And I'm not totally sure on this, but wasn't the rock heel going into Mania 17? If so that would make it that much more stupid because it would be a face turning heel on a heel.
The whole concept of 'great because it's never been done before' isn't one to abuse. Vince Russo has clearly abused it throughout his entire career and shocks for the sake of shocks are stupid. I like being surprised if it makes sense towards the story you're trying to tell, but if you're sacrificing the validity and seriousness of your story in an attempt to shock me big one night? Why the fuck should I care about your shock? It's stupid. This turn was stupid. Austin aligned with McMahon of all people it didn't even make sense.
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2,348 Posts
Austin was to remain face, and Rock was suppose to win at 17 by turning heel and getting Vince's help. Turning ether one of them doesn't really make much sense, since neither were stale as a face. But turning Austin in his hometown? That just fucking dumb....
Austin's heel turn, while occasionally entertaining, was purely a failure of execution.
From DAY ONE, he should have become completely "corporate." He should have worn only suits, refused to drink beer and only drank champagne on ice that would be brought down during his matches. Only eats caviar. Should have used his alliance with Vince to threaten to FIRE any wrestler who didn't lay down for him.
He should have been the ultimate corporate champion. A cross between Vince McMahon and Jericho's "honest man" heel.
From DAY ONE, he should have become completely "corporate." He should have worn only suits, refused to drink beer and only drank champagne on ice that would be brought down during his matches. Only eats caviar. Should have used his alliance with Vince to threaten to FIRE any wrestler who didn't lay down for him.
He should have been the ultimate corporate champion. A cross between Vince McMahon and Jericho's "honest man" heel.
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Agreed.
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2,348 Posts
This.
If you are going to go through with this, you have to completely change Austin's character.
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