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STARDOM Discussion Thread

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This was originally the Fight to The Top PPV thread, but I figure we might as well use it as a general STARDOM discussion thread since this section isn't very active.


They were nice enough to make an English tweet with various time zones. It starts in 2 hours and features two cage matches. One is between Tam Nakano (leader of the Cosmic Angels) and Natsupoi (member of Donna Del Mundo [DDM]), and the other is a six woman tag between Queen's Quest (lead by Utami) and STARS (lead by Mayu Iwatani).

Someone on Twitter was nice enough to translate Tam's thread about her multi-year rivalry with Natsupoi. Click it and scroll through the 14 tweets for the full backstory:


Stars to Watch
Queen's Quest consists of:
Utami Hayashishita-STARDOM's highest ranked PWI Superstar at #4 in 2021

Saya Kamatani, who's making a strong argument for the greatest Wonder of STARDOM Champion (think Intercontinental Champion that matters) in history with her excellent matches

AZM- Reigning High Speed Champion (think WCW Cruiserweight Champion) that can steal the show on any given night at 19 years old

STARS features veteran and Ace Mayu Iwatani, who you may know from teaming with Io Shirai and KAIRI in threedom.

The Artist of Stardom (Trios title) match features God's Eye, Oedo Tai, and DDM. Syuri (reigning World of STARDOM champion) officially left DDM to form her own stable after her fantastic match with Giulia at STARDOM World Climax 3 months ago, and ever since then, DDM has lost the artist titles and other big matches, while God's Eye and Oedo Tai (reigning Artist of STARDOM Champions) have steadily gained momentum. This match is Giulia's chance to put DDM back on top after being in a slump for the first half of 2022.

Similarly to Tam and Poi, Mina Shirakawa (Cosmic Angels) and Himeka (DDM) have a long history of going from friends to bitter enemies as well. You can check out their thread here:

Miyu Amasaki (Queen's Quest) is a rookie on the rise that's making a strong impression on the STARDOM fans and its roster. She just recently won her last qualifying 5 Star Grand Prix tournament match against perennial jobber Waka, and is looking to carry that momentum into this tag team match with her partner, Lady C (Queen's Quest) against Saya Lida and Hazuki of STARS.
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What would be your favourite white belt champions? I don't think Saya would rank pretty high a la momo in 2018 nor has she really done anything to make her sort of representative of the title like, say, Kairi, Mayu, Tam herself throughout 2020

Don't know, I'm very vocal about my dislike of Saya Kamitani as a worker. I don't think she brings anything to the table that one can't already get from people like SLK, Poi or HZK (and I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the first two listed), who are imo better. She's probably one of the worst pushed top names overall. I cut her some slack in 2020-early 2021, but it's already been several years of push out of the gate and she isn't anything amazing in the ring nor does she carry herself lik a star like Utami, Giu or Syu do. Hope the multi trios stip means she only has to do her high spots while the rest do the bulk of the match


Tam is fine when she wants. she can botch due to not being exactly top tier athleticism wise, and her gimmick is irritating, but she is quite good at selling stuff and getting you into the match, plus has better instincts than most for milking spots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@HugoCortez Tam is my white belt GOAT. Regardless of how you feel about Saya, she is consistently putting on the best title matches on PPV and feels like the A champion over Syuri, whose only classic of 2022 has been with Giulia.

Speaking of Tam, that cage match with Poi is my #2 Stardom match of the year behind Syuri vs. Giulia.
 

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Syuri's output hasn't been exactly up to par, to put it mmildly since she became the champion and started to do a generic bomb trading style instead of her submission and kicks one (bet most people disagree with me and love the change though, plus i would say the change was already starting around fall of 2021) but they are still passable at least. Saya though, I watch all of the matches and I'm yet to see a title defense of hers that isn't above pedestrian. Plus, she is yet to main event over the red belt like Kairi and Tam have done, so I would still put them above her purely from a starpower basis in the white belt lineage history. I have already posted a long comment elsewhere detailing why, so I will simply link it here:

Hugo's wall of text about why Saya's matches and feuds bore him



Then again, Stardom's in ring quality has dropped off a cliff since early 2021, so it would be hard to pick someone on the basis of having had a flag year over there




Anyway, since you are a big fan of hers, please, I encourage you to go here and do a post praising her. I do a serie sof entries talking about what I like and don't like of certain workers and literally can't think of much I like from her and it would be nice to have people who have something positive to say about her share their two cents:


Link to joshi in ring discussion subreddit
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@HugoCortez Utami and Giulia are my faves as complete packages, (Mina from a character standpoint) but I give everyone a fair chance, and to me, Saya has consistently delivered in her PPV singles matches. Does Syuri's underwhelming title reign affect this perception? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I'm grading Saya on a curve. I'm genuinely impressed by her matches.
 

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Imo the best white belt runs were Momo and Arisa's. Tall Saya's work doesn't really do much for me either sadly. Her push is probably my least favorite thing about Stardom right now.
Basically this for me. Saya Kamitani has to be one of the top names across the scene that I like the least, and I'm including the US. Don't know, reddit likes her a ton and Meltzer is always handing her out high ratings (then again, he inflates the stardom ratings something fierce) but I peronally don't see it. Utami sort of fizzled out a bit after losing the red belt, and she has more charisma, so Saya could run the same risk if they don't make sure to book her to always be at the forefront.

  • Momo was top 3 names during her white belt title run and had a better average of title matches, so she goes ahead of Saya. Man, Momo Watanabe's output has fallen off a cliff since late 2021. You can see she has lost motivation after her big depush and now only goes out during her occasional main event matches.
  • Tam Nakano was one of the top 2 stars of the promotion alongside Giulia in 2020 and early 2021, main eventing the Budokan show over the red belt match between Utami and Saya. Plus, even if she is very hit or miss, I prefer her touted matches, so she goes ahead too.
  • Mayu Iwatani started her good run with the white belt and also became one of the 2-3 most popular names in the promotion after Kairi. Plus, she definitely had the better matches, so ahead she goes.
  • Kairi had better matches and was the top star in the scene during her runs in late 2015-2017, so she's goes ahead, too.
  • Io Shirai's white title run was a bit of a waste due to the opponents but, even then, she's leagues ahead of Saya in the ring, plus, she was the promotion's undisputable top star during that period between Yoshiko & Nanae's departure and Kairi's rise.
  • Giulia is tricky, because she's always main eventing and the center of the main storylines regardless of if she's holding a title or not, but I prefer a couple of her title defenses, like one of the Tam bouts, the Konami defense (even if it lacked heat because Konami is a good worker but a charisma vacuum) or the Himeka match. She main evented the Budokan, that puts her ahead of Saya in almost every department as champion.
  • Arisa Hoshiki really wasn't that good a worker, but she was a much bigger deal than Saya while as champion. I'd put her just slightly above Kamitani.
  • Yoko Bito was a letdown of a champion, but she had just returned and always had bad luck with injuries, having to retire shortly after for a second time, so she would go below Saya.
  • Yuzupon sucked in the ring, but she was Stardom's top name during her run as white belt champion and basically would main event over the red belt for some of the bigger shows, so she is well above most of the names on the list when it comes to the starpower department.
  • Act Yasukawa is more or less like Yuzupon in the sense that she was pure charisma name rather than a big worker. In terms of workrate, she would go below Saya, but in terms of starpower she would be ahead of her.
  • Santana Garret and Sarah Stock were run of the mill champions so they would go below Saya.
  • So, Saya wouldn't rank that high if I were to rank all of the wonder of stardom champions.


Another thing is that Starlight Kid and Natsupoi feel like bigger deals despite literally being her chasers, so she isn't exactly this big presence that doesn't need a title, in my opinion, of course.

Wonder what would be the ranking for the red belt champions? Mayu, Io, Meiko, Kagetsu, and Kairi would be the top 5, but wonder how the other 6 would rank. Syuri is poster boy for wresler who's better as the threat than as the defending ace (sort of like a modern Devil Masami), Utami has the length, promotion backing and a couple of good matches, but most of those were against Momo and Syuri.




@HugoCortez Utami and Giulia are my faves as complete packages, (Mina from a character standpoint) but I give everyone a fair chance, and to me, Saya has consistently delivered in her PPV singles matches. Does Syuri's underwhelming title reign affect this perception? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I'm grading Saya on a curve. I'm genuinely impressed by her matches.
Don't know, Syuri hasn't had bangers, but I prefer her match with Giulia and her match with Himeka over Saya vs Unagi, vs Poi, vs Tam, vs Utami (esp this one, never been a fan of this match up), vs Maika and vs MIRAI (why the rocket push for her? She's literally arrived and gotten nothing but title matches and tournament wins out of the gate)

It's funny, going into the Sumo Hall show, I thought Mayu vs Syuri was going to be the good match like it was in September 2020, with the Syuri vs Giulia one being the self-complacent epic excess and it turned out the latter was the better match while the former was very by the numbers, which is funny, considering Giulia's epic matches tend to bore me due to how much of a structural mess they are. Not that Giulia is bad, she's athletic and, even if she tends to overcomplicate them and grow tired of it pretty fast into her matches, she has a decent grappling game, but her concept of what is a good match is to force all of her signature spots into all of her matches regardless of if it makes sense, no sell at critical moments during heat sections and banalize her own finishers. I actually like her, but it's mainly her charisma and starpower that I dig about her rather than her match output. She's the definition of a worker who has to be kept in a short leash in order to have a good match with, otherwise she takes over and turns it into the "hey, look at me doing the forearm exchanges, rope chases and brawls on the outside" show.



Utami is definitely the superior Aphrodite member. Not that she is a prodigy, but she's naturally more athletic, actually pulls her powerhouse repertoire convincingly unlike her partner who botches hurricanranas and simple headlocks and has more presence (she has good presence) and charisma. Plus, she does better during the program builds.

Sicne we are talking about workers, I prefer Himeka: even if her mat game is bad and her bumps can range from good to shitty, she's still a better bumper than saya on top of a better and more consistent seller, has better sense of pacing, better facial expressions, is better promo, has better presence, is better running the ropes, better at getting heat during her heat and shine sections and is a powerhouse, which is something that stardom doesn't exactly have in spades.

I am not a fan of Starlight Kid but she is imo better than Saya when it comes to her style of in ring, being more athletic and less prone to botches and awkward mid sequence pauses, even if she isn't exactly a worker who puts attention to the match narrative and prefers to do her signature spots. Plus, she has more charisma and a better gimmick/look. Ditto with Poi, of whom I'm not the biggest fan either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
@HugoCortez I can respectfully disagree with your opinion because you provided reasoning of why you feel the way you feel. I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so I'll conclude the Saya discussion by saying I enjoyed all of the matches you named, and probably do have an inherit bias because several are against my favorites, but Syuri delivered a MOTY candidate and a bunch of duds (by STARDOM standards) afterwards. She needs to drop the belt to KAIRI or Tam. I'd honestly rather have a part time champion that feels like a major attraction than an underwhelming champion that's always here.

With that said, THE 5 STAR GRAND PRIX BLOCKS HAVE BEEN POSTED AND THEY'RE HELLA STACKED 😃!!!! Post the matchups from each block that you're looking forward to the most and your projected winner of the whole tournament.


STARDOM said:
◆ Syuri (God's Eye) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Tamu Nakano (COSMIC ANGELS) 6th consecutive year
◆ Shimi Hayashishita (Queen's Quest) 5th consecutive year
◆ AZM (Queen's Quest) 4th year 4th consecutive year
◆ Cogma (STARS) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Maika (Donna del Mondo) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Himeka (Donna del Mondo) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Tekura (Donna del Mondo) first appearance
◆ Eel Sayaka (COSMIC ANGELS) 2nd consecutive year
◆ Saki Kashima (Oedo Tai) 5th consecutive year
◆ Mai Sakurai (Donna del Mondo) first appearance
◆ Sera Risa (Prominence) first appearance
◆ SAKI (COLOR'S) recommendation frame

<Blue Stars>
◆ Mayu Iwatani (STARS) 9th consecutive year
◆ Julia (Donna del Mondo) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Saya Kamitani (Queen's Quest) 3rd consecutive year
◆ Starlight Kid (Oedo Tai) 3rd time in a row
◆ Momo Watanabe (Oedo Tai) 6th time in a row
◆ Hazuki (STARS) 4th time in 3 years
◆ Saya Iida (STARS) 2nd time in 2 years
◆ Natsupoi (Donna del Mondo) 2nd year in a row 3rd time
◆ Mina Shirakawa (COSMIC ANGELS) 2nd time in a row
◆ Hanan (STARS) first appearance
◆ MIRAI (God's Eye ) first appearance ◆ Saya Kamitani (Queen's Quest) first appearance
◆ Suzuki Suzu (Prominence) first appearance

For the blue block, I'm most excited for:
Giulia vs Mina
Giulia vs SLK
Giulia vs Saya
Giulia vs. Poi

Giulia and Utami are my finalists and I have Giulia winning it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
lol, that spot where the one lady is on the back of the other two and trying to submit them both was cool
That's Waka. Sadly, she's the biggest jobber in wrestling at the moment, with ZERO victories in 2022. I say sadly because she's a member of my favorite stable, The Cosmic Angels, and they are guaranteed to lose when she's on the team. I love their new COLORS recruit SAKI and hope she permanently replaces Waka. She just joined two weeks ago and already won her first match as a Cosmic Angel.
 

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Don't know about any of you, people, but this entire storyline is bad and whoever wrote it should feel ashamed of themselves. Also, who thought having that pciture as Saya's render would be a good idea? This is like the joshi equivalent of the Seth Rollins screaming gif. Io is rolling in her grave
 

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It's not just goofy as fuck. It's classic botchamania levels of eye roll inducing. The worst part is, if it turns out it's someone like Kairi under the mask, this would make the wohle thing a silly serious storyline involving nothing but top names. There are silly storylines, but I think this is the first one that's supposed to be a big angle involving an important reveal and big players. Hope the reveal is someone like Kaicho or another comedy type of wrestler and not a top serious contender name.

Plus, a coffin match. Gee, the may have not sold the promotion to wwe, but they have been wweifying their product something fierce as of the past 3 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's not just goofy as fuck. It's classic botchamania levels of eye roll inducing. The worst part is, if it turns out it's someone like Kairi under the mask, this would make the wohle thing a silly serious storyline involving nothing but top names. There are silly storylines, but I think this is the first one that's supposed to be a big angle involving an important reveal and big players. Hope the reveal is someone like Kaicho or another comedy type of wrestler and not a top serious contender name.

Plus, a coffin match. Gee, the may have not sold the promotion to wwe, but they have been wweifying their product something fierce as of the past 3 years.
I'll say why I think it's Kairi.

1. She declared interest in the white belt last month.
2. She challenged Saya to a tag match with a mystery partner.
3. We haven't seen her in 3 weeks.
 

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Welp, rip Stardom.

Any idea where to actually watch TJPW?

Offers TJPW as well DDT, Pro Wrestling NOAH, ZERO1 and Ganbare Pro for 900¥ per month, convert it to euros if you like, but it's currently offering a two week free trial for new members.
 
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