[RapShepard]

For the first point, AJ Styles deserves to be in there. Sasha and Bailey were obviously in a much bigger league than Eddie Kingston, who only really appeared for the latter half of it to do anything worthwhile. I would put Cody ahead of him in all honesty.

That's fair, I just feel that he spent at least half of the year not being terribly good.

Well he spent most of the year not around as he left in March.

I'd have put Cody instead of Eddie, but I guess his major break out is what won him the spot

 

[VIP86]

But even fans voted for the female fight

MMA's Best Fights of the Year 2020 | Tapology MMA Rankings

What are 2020's Best Fights? Tapology member rankings let you decide.

www.tapology.com

You want to argue that typically speaking men are more athletic than women, sure you're definitely right there. But wrestling isn't just about being athletic. It can help for sure, but it's not the end all be all in what draws people into matches or what makes them memorable.

Also as much as it's going to hurt to hear it the 4 Horsewomen are bigger stars with bigger followings than the NJPW men you named. If you asked wrestling fans as a whole they'd go with the Horsewomen

first, the term "The Four Horsemen" is one of the most ridiculous things i heard
no Four women wrestlers on the planet deserve that title

and no they are not a bigger draw than the top men in WWE or anywhere else
just because they have a bunch of broke ass horny teenagers on twitter following them
won't make it translate to ticket sales (excuse the honesty here)

the physical abilities are 75% of what makes a wrestler, the remaining 25% are the storytelling
old school wrestlers didn't have the bodys of today
but they were absolutely brutal and stiff in the ring
so the physical abilities was always a main factor

can the women tell a story inside the ring ? YES they sure can to a certain limit (because of the physical limitations)
can the top 2 women have a better pro wrestling match than the top 2 men ? nope, not even close

and the most important thing, if you want to put men and women in the same list
then it's only fair to ask this
can the top female pro wrestler outwrestle the top male pro wrestler ?
if the answer is no: then i'm sorry, they can't be in the same list

 

[RapShepard]

first, the term "The Four Horsemen" is one of the most ridiculous things i heard
no Four women wrestlers on the planet deserve that title

Could came up with their own name sure. But I mean Charlotte takes from her dad lol

and no they are not a bigger draw than the top men in WWE or anywhere else
just because they have a bunch of broke ass horny teenagers on twitter following them
won't make it translate to ticket sales (excuse the honesty here)

Yeah they're going to be bigger draws than most men in the industry. Again I know it hurts to think about it, but it is what it is. If you think someone like Zack Sabre or Ibushi has the same starpower as those women you're full of it.

the physical abilities are 75% of what makes a wrestler, the remaining 25% are the storytelling
old school wrestlers didn't have the bodys of today
but they were absolutely brutal and stiff in the ring
so the physical abilities was always a main factor

But women can be brutal and stiff as well, you'd have been better off trying to say "they can't do this type of flip". Bayley and Sasha's Hell in a Cell match was more brutal than the majority of HiaC matches of this era.

can the women tell a story inside the ring ? YES they sure can to a certain limit (because of the physical limitations)
can the top 2 women have a better pro wrestling match than the top 2 men ? nope, not even close

You say this as of there wasn't a time when the NXT women were putting on better matches than the top men in NXT.

and the most important thing, if you want to put men and women in the same list
then it's only fair to ask this
can the top female pro wrestler outwrestle the top male pro wrestler ?
if the answer is no: then i'm sorry, they can't be in the same list

The reason your entire argument holds no weight is because that term has no real meaning in pro wrestling. What's out wrestled actually mean?

Jericho isn't as technical as Benoit, does that mean Benoit is better?

Benoit couldn't out brawl **** Foley, does that mean Foley is better?

Wait Foley couldn't fly as well as Ricochet, so is Ricochet better?

Hold up Ricochet doesn't sell as well as Sasha, so does that mean she's better?

The biggest point though is clearly a list like this is talking about the whole package of wrestling stories, characters, moments, and matches. If it was just about matches fucking Eddie wouldn't be there. But for fucks sake the man had a breakout year 18 years in, had some pretty good promos as well. That's worth far more than say FTR being in some solid ass tag matches throughout the year.

 

[VIP86]

Could came up with their own name sure. But I mean Charlotte takes from her dad lol



Yeah they're going to be bigger draws than most men in the industry. Again I know it hurts to think about it, but it is what it is. If you think someone like Zack Sabre or Ibushi has the same starpower as those women you're full of it.


But women can be brutal and stiff as well, you'd have been better off trying to say "they can't do this type of flip". Bayley and Sasha's Hell in a Cell match was more brutal than the majority of HiaC matches of this era.




You say this as of there wasn't a time when the NXT women were putting on better matches than the top men in NXT.



The reason your entire argument holds no weight is because that term has no real meaning in pro wrestling. What's out wrestled actually mean?

Jericho isn't as technical as Benoit, does that mean Benoit is better?

Benoit couldn't out brawl **** Foley, does that mean Foley is better?

Wait Foley couldn't fly as well as Ricochet, so is Ricochet better?

Hold up Ricochet doesn't sell as well as Sasha, so does that mean she's better?

The biggest point though is clearly a list like this is talking about the whole package of wrestling stories, characters, moments, and matches. If it was just about matches fucking Eddie wouldn't be there. But for fucks sake the man had a breakout year 18 years in, had some pretty good promos as well. That's worth far more than say FTR being in some solid ass tag matches throughout the year.

so now titles like this are being inherited? are you serious right now ?
it doesn't matter if Charlotte is his daughter

no matter how hard you try
they're not at the same level, and never will be
this is just the fan in you talking

there is a reason nobody remembers or gives a shit about women wrestling throughout history
how many storylines or angels or feuds throughout history in women wrestling that people are talking about to this day?? = a big fat ZERO

how many storylines or angels or feuds throughout history in Men's wrestling that people are talking about to this day?? = ALL OF THEM

you can't give me an example of real sports fans voting to prove a point
but at the same time you refuse to consider PRO wrestling a sport
you can't have it both ways

the only thing this list does is to satisfy SJWs, and you know that very well
so let's not try to play a cat and mouse game here

women can wrestle all they want, but give them their own list
women have their own league in every sport
we're not going to reinvent the wheel here

 

[RapShepard]

so now titles like this are being inherited? are you serious right now ?
it doesn't matter if Charlotte is his daughter

no matter how hard you try
they're not at the same level, and never will be
this is just the fan in you talking

there is a reason nobody remembers or gives a shit about women wrestling throughout history
how many storylines or angels or feuds throughout history in women wrestling that people are talking about to this day?? = a big fat ZERO

how many storylines or angels or feuds throughout history in Men's wrestling that people are talking about to this day?? = ALL OF THEM

Aye most would agree that Charlotte borrows from her dad a little too much.

As far as the other point as far as US wrestling how often have female wrestlers really been given the chance to shine. But top of my head

Chyna vs Jarrett
Chyna vs Jericho
Trish vs Lita
Trish vs Mickie James
Awesome Kong vs Gail Kim
Gail Kim vs The Beautiful People
Sasha vs Charlotte
Sasha vs Becky
Becky vs Charlotte

you can't give me an example of real sports fans voting to prove a point
but at the same time you refuse to consider PRO wrestling a sport
you can't have it both ways

MMA's Best Fights of the Year 2020 | Tapology MMA Rankings

What are 2020's Best Fights? Tapology member rankings let you decide.

www.tapology.com

This is an MMA fan site, users primarily vote on match predictions. Yet they also decided a female fight was the fight of 2020.

the only thing this list does is to satisfy SJWs, and you know that very well
so let's not try to play a cat and mouse game here

women can wrestle all they want, but give them their own list
women have their own league in every sport
we're not going to reinvent the wheel here

Let's keep it a bean you're super salty that Sasha was deemed to have a better year than whatever male wrestler you liked. But it's not a crazy outcome when you look at her year. She won all 3 titles on the main roster. Had one of the longest built stories and well received stories with Bayley. She also had some good to great matches. Was one of the companies anchors and ratings draw this year.

Her being wrestler of the year is valid.

 

[VIP86]

Aye most would agree that Charlotte borrows from her dad a little too much.

As far as the other point as far as US wrestling how often have female wrestlers really been given the chance to shine. But top of my head

Chyna vs Jarrett
Chyna vs Jericho
Trish vs Lita
Trish vs Mickie James
Awesome Kong vs Gail Kim
Gail Kim vs The Beautiful People
Sasha vs Charlotte
Sasha vs Becky
Becky vs Charlotte

MMA's Best Fights of the Year 2020 | Tapology MMA Rankings

What are 2020's Best Fights? Tapology member rankings let you decide.

www.tapology.com

This is an MMA fan site, users primarily vote on match predictions. Yet they also decided a female fight was the fight of 2020.



Let's keep it a bean you're super salty that Sasha was deemed to have a better year than whatever male wrestler you liked. But it's not a crazy outcome when you look at her year. She won all 3 titles on the main roster. Had one of the longest built stories and well received stories with Bayley. She also had some good to great matches. Was one of the companies anchors and ratings draw this year.

Her being wrestler of the year is valid.

now you're just making assumptions about my intentions.
believe it or not, i don't have a favorite in this worthless list
i enjoyed a lot of wrestler
i have nothing against sasha (i like her) and i think she's more likeable than even Bailey

but it's all a matter of principle
they can't force things that can't be forced just for the sake of a journalist trying to be a SJW

but i have a solution
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women matches on their shows as the men every week
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women main event matches as the men in their PPVs every year

you know why this will never happen ?
not because they don't want to give women a chance
companies now look for any way to score some social points

but because the people who run this business know very well that it's not a draw and not in the same level

 

[Hephaesteus]

nope, that idiot of a journalist wanted to score some points because they all have social agendas
WWE women revolution ? are they kidding me
WWE wanted to capitalise on the ongoing social agenda, you can't possibly convince me otherwise
if you're a fan of women wrestling that's perfectly fine, but they sure not at the same level

how about we make a poll and ask the wrestling fans if they think women wrestling is as good as the men's
what do you think the answer would be ?

since you think the 4 horsewomen are as big of a draw as the men
let's ask the wrestling fans, who would they prefer to pay to see ?

here is a spoiler for both answers
it's not even a competition (inside the ring or in the ticket booth) and you know that very well

Yet the ratings say otherwise. Want to know whats the highest rated smackdown segment of last year? (Hint, it aint Roman).

 

[VIP86]

Yet the ratings say otherwise. Want to know whats the highest rated smackdown segment of last year? (Hint, it aint Roman).

i love that everyone is avoiding the main point
if the top woman can't wrestle better than the top man
then she shouldn't be in the list.

or do you also think they can wrestle better ?
the magic word here is (wrestling)
and this stupid list is about the best pro WRESTLER
not the best ACTOR or STORYTELLER

 

[RapShepard]

now you're just making assumptions about my intentions.
believe it or not, i don't have a favorite in this worthless list
i enjoyed a lot of wrestler
i have nothing against sasha (i like her) and i think she's more likeable than even Bailey

but it's all a matter of principle
they can't force things that can't be forced just for the sake of a journalist trying to be a SJW

but i have a solution
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women matches on their shows as the men every week
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women main event matches as the men in their PPVs every year

you know why this will never happen ?
not because they don't want to give women a chance
companies now look for any way to score some social points

but because the people who run this business know very well that it's not a draw and not in the same level

So if the list is worthless why are you on this long tangent about how females wrestlers can't possibly be as good as a men? You're irrationally upset because one of the top stars in the business happens to the be a woman and she was declared the wrestler of the year. Anybody not being ridiculously biased can see how somebody could come to that conclusion.

i love that everyone is avoiding the main point
if the top woman can't wrestle better than the top man
then she shouldn't be in the list.

or do you also think they can wrestle better ?
the magic word here is (wrestling)
and this stupid list is about the best pro WRESTLER
not the best ACTOR or STORYTELLER

There's more to wrestling than moves lol. You would've been the guy in the late 90s arguing that Dean Malenko should've been the man in WCW because "he has 1,000" holds lol

 

[Klitschko]

A bit disappointed that Bray Wyatt isn't on there.

 

[VIP86]

So if the list is worthless why are you on this long tangent about how females wrestlers can't possibly be as good as a men? You're irrationally upset because one of the top stars in the business happens to the be a woman and she was declared the wrestler of the year. Anybody not being ridiculously biased can see how somebody could come to that conclusion.



There's more to wrestling than moves lol. You would've been the guy in the late 90s arguing that Dean Malenko should've been the man in WCW because "he has 1,000" holds lol

she's one of the top stars in the business in the (female category)
"she was declared the wrestler of the year" based on whose choice exactly ?
based on the choice of a SJW journalist
who opted to merge the lists because he thought he's bringing justice and equality to the business

it's called (wrestling) for a reason
because you know.... it revolves around the skill of wrestling
and women wrestling is just not good enough
not their fault, it's just nature limitations

again i will say
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women matches on their shows as the men every week
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women main event matches as the men in their PPVs every year

 

[RapShepard]

she's one of the top stars in the business in the (female category)
"she was declared the wrestler of the year" based on whose choice exactly ?
based on the choice of a SJW journalist
who opted to merge the lists because he thought he's bringing justice and equality to the business

Or maybe a woman just had the best year in wrestling

it's called (wrestling) for a reason
because you know.... it revolves around the skill of wrestling
and women wrestling is just not good enough
not their fault, it's just nature limitations

This would be a great point if this was amateur wrestling and not pro wrestling there's more to being a great wrestler than ring work and athleticism.

again i will say
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women matches on their shows as the men every week
come talk to me about this when WWE or AEW have the same number of women main event matches as the men in their PPVs every year

This point is so silly and nonsensical. You think this is a "gotcha" point. But it would only be that if somebody was making the argument that every woman is just as good as every male wrestler. AEW or WWE don't need to have an equal number of female matches and main events to make a statement like Sasha had the best year this year.

 

[VIP86]

Or maybe a woman just had the best year in wrestling

in the (female category)

This would be a great point if this was amateur wrestling and not pro wrestling there's more to being a great wrestler than ring work and athleticism.

it's called (wrestling)
not "acting" with wrestling sprinkled on the side

This point is so silly and nonsensical. You think this is a "gotcha" point. But it would only be that if somebody was making the argument that every woman is just as good as every male wrestler. AEW or WWE don't need to have an equal number of female matches and main events to make a statement like Sasha had the best year this year.

AEW or WWE don't have an equal number of female matches and main events, because they're not at that level
it would never happen because they're not good enough
it will stay just a sideshow attraction like it always was, and will always be

 

[RapShepard]

in the (female category)

Clearly this is the everybody category

it's called (wrestling)
not "acting" with wrestling sprinkled on the side

No matter how much it upsets you in ring isn't the end all be all. Tell your favorite to get up their charisma and be in better stories.

AEW or WWE don't have an equal number of female matches and main events, because they're not at that level
it would never happen because they're not good enough
it will stay just a sideshow attraction like it always was, and will always be

On average most definitely aren't. Then you got folk like Banks and women of her ilk who are elite regardless of gender.

 

[Hephaesteus]

i love that everyone is avoiding the main point
if the top woman can't wrestle better than the top man
then she shouldn't be in the list.

or do you also think they can wrestle better ?
the magic word here is (wrestling)
and this stupid list is about the best pro WRESTLER
not the best ACTOR or STORYTELLER

Then you must be really pissed that daniel bryan and aj styles arent on that list. Im guessing using those specs that the rock stone cold and hulk arent anywhere close to your mount rushmore

 

[VIP86]

Clearly this is the everybody category

that's my argument, it shouldn't be "the everybody category"
because that will open the doors for comparisons between physically unequal sides
it doesn't work, just like any other activity that require physicality
it's wrestling not chess

No matter how much it upsets you in ring isn't the end all be all. Tell your favorite to get up their charisma and be in better stories.

nope, you can hire a charismatic manager to talk for a wrestler (brock lesnar says hi)
but if a wrestler is not at that level, then charisma is not really enough to make the comparison

On average most definitely aren't. Then you got folk like Banks and women of her ilk who are elite regardless of gender.

when something requires a high level of physicality
then gender becomes a factor whether we like it or not
they are Elite in the (female) division

 

[VIP86]

Then you must be really pissed that daniel bryan and aj styles arent on that list. Im guessing using those specs that the rock stone cold and hulk arent anywhere close to your mount rushmore

again you're avoiding the point
there is a list in front of me that has men and women
if the women in the list are not as good as the men in the ring
then they shouldn't be in the same list

is that really hard to comprehend ?
or is it we must invent reasons for this list to exist

 

[RapShepard]

that's my argument, it shouldn't be "the everybody category"
because that will open the doors for comparisons between physically unequal sides
it doesn't work, just like any other activity that require physicality
it's wrestling not chess

Exactly it's pro wrestling not a NFL or NBA Combine

nope, you can hire a charismatic manager to talk for a wrestler (brock lesnar says hi)
but if a wrestler is not at that level, then charisma is not really enough to make the comparison

The majority of actual stars in wrestling aren't what hardcore fans typically consider great in-ring

when something requires a high level of physicality
then gender becomes a factor whether we like it or not
they are Elite in the (female) division

Sure in real sports, but this is pro wrestling. Athleticism isn't the end all be all.

 

[Hephaesteus]

again you're avoiding the point
there is a list in front of me that has men and women
if the women in the list are not as good as the men in the ring
then they shouldn't be in the same list

is that really hard to comprehend ?
or is it we must invent reasons for this list to exist

Your reasoning was that if a woman isnt better than the top man that she shouldnt be on that list, yet it sounds like you're fine with a man not being better than the top wrestler but being on that list. Sounds like a bit of a double standard going on.

 

[VIP86]

Your reasoning was that if a woman isnt better than the top man that she shouldnt be on that list, yet it sounds like you're fine with a man not being better than the top wrestler but being on that list. Sounds like a bit of a double standard going on.

saying "it sounds like" is not good enough
point to me where exactly did i say this