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Discussion Starter #1
Whenever I watch Raw it just feels pointless when they are on, let me stress it's not them personally, I like Ziggler, and I even kinda like Swagger, but I've been conditioned to believe that nothing interesting ever happens when they are on the screen other than losing, just midcard jobbers and I am sick of the role, split them up, they don't need vickie, it's the same thing every week for all of them, once again I don't hate any of them, I want to stress that, but it's just so boring now, I understand the purpose of jobbers, but it seems like half the feuds are so undeveloped, you can replace ziggler/swagger with camacho/hunico, young/oneil, hawkins/reks, primo/epico pretty much any heel tag team is the same thing, otunga is the only one that plays a good henchmen, and that's terrible. The only difference is the moves no character development whatsoever is allowed for any of them and that's a lot of people just off the bat who are used for nothing other than jobs.

I know I'm rambling sorry, just tired of this thing with Laurinaitis, so damn tired of henchmen being used for a terrible feud with a general manager, it ran it's course after his feud with punk why does he need to keep going on and on and on.

The thing with big show didn't even make sense, he decided to help him even though he probably would have got his job back with the new gm. Why do we need to have Eve of all people be more important,I'm just sick of this.
 

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Zigglers current show off gimmick is doing him no favours it just pretty much labels him a bumping machine .
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It has nothing to do with the gimmick, he doesn't even get the chance to flaunt the show off gimmick, I just don't get how they think they are going anywhere with this. CM Punk Daniel Bryan and Sheamus are arguably the only other people that are over and two of them they did on there own, Sheamus is the only other one they are giving a legit push to that's new, the rest of them job, and even the ones that are on a streak like ryback and Brodus only beat other jobbers, why are there so many jobbers in the wwe when there shouldn't be?
 

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There is no duty we so much underrate as... being
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I completely agree, and I believe it will, at least for Ziggler, before too long. It's just up to WWE finally pulling the trigger. American Perfection--which they don't even call themselves, because I guess it would be too cool a name to waste on them as it stands today--is making the Straight Edge Society circa late August 2010 look alive and well by contrast. As the late, great Owen Hart used to say, enough is enough and it's time for a change.

They need to suffer a couple of more high-profile losses, and Ziggler needs to flip out and make Swagger into hamburger with a chair or something, just break off completely from him and Vickie. I think they've been teasing him becoming the cornerstone of AW's new heel power stable. So we'll see.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I can tell you a new power stable is not gonna get anyone over, not when the people he talked to were primo/epico, mark henry, and ryback. Just I don't see it going anywhere, I think people just need to have a minute of promo time about why are they fighting each other, instead of always just being building momentum for a title, like just why they hate each other, that's all, I just don't want people thrown in just...cause...anymore, it's the one thing I've been hating about raw every week.
 

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There is no duty we so much underrate as... being
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It has nothing to do with the gimmick, he doesn't even get the chance to flaunt the show off gimmick, I just don't get how they think they are going anywhere with this. CM Punk Daniel Bryan and Sheamus are arguably the only other people that are over and two of them they did on there own, Sheamus is the only other one they are giving a legit push to that's new, the rest of them job, and even the ones that are on a streak like ryback and Brodus only beat other jobbers, why are there so many jobbers in the wwe when there shouldn't be?
Because the writing sucks. WWE refuses to let midcarders--much less undercarders--shine as fully formed characters. For some reason they think it's better to let everyone simply rot on the vine while they keep pushing the individuals they want to push, and consequently very few people can get over because there's nobody over to get over from beating and the cycle just repeats itself in an ostensibly perpetual fashion. The midcard as it stands is almost nonexistent. Cody Rhodes was their best-protected and most highly-sustained midcard prospect and in the last couple of months they've done one thing after another to diminish him. It's just how they roll now and it's shitty. It's why we have a roster of John Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton and Sheamus and recently the returning Chris Jericho and Daniel Bryan and The Big Show and Alberto Del Rio and a bunch of jobbers/new kids/enhancement talents/treadmill victims.
 

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This is how I feel. Whenever they're on screen, I find myself fast forwarding because I know nothing interesting is going to happen. It's not their fault. Ziggler could be a solid main eventer, but WWE ruined Swagger too much. I don't think theres any hope for him now.

And I want to see the Mason Ryan/Ziggler partnership. Drop Vickie. Bring the Eagle back and get some individuality!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Because the writing sucks. WWE refuses to let midcarders--much less undercarders--shine as fully formed characters. For some reason they think it's better to let everyone simply rot on the vine while they keep pushing the individuals they want to push, and consequently very few people can get over because there's nobody over to get over from beating and the cycle just repeats itself in an ostensibly perpetual fashion. The midcard as it stands is almost nonexistent. Cody Rhodes was their best-protected and most highly-sustained midcard prospect and in the last couple of months they've done one thing after another to diminish him. It's just how they roll now and it's shitty. It's why we have a roster of John Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton and Sheamus and recently the returning Chris Jericho and Daniel Brayn and a bunch of jobbers/new kids/enhancement talents/treadmill victims.
It's frustrating, I remember making a post not to long ago saying the midcard was stronger then ever like three months back, but they have ruined a lot of the people, they don't get time to have a match let alone a feud, and they keep introducing more and more people, it's just flooded now, and while a lot of people coming in now are good, they won't have the time to even show it, which baffles me because triple h said that he wouldn't let people come up to the main shows without a plan, when half the people on the shows don't have a plan. I guess what I'm getting at is, we need more than just people wrestling for the sake of wrestling, they need to try harder. It's the show not the wrestlers. Triple H is doing an awful job if he's taking roster development, they focus more on finding the next big thing then making the best show they can, no one guy is gonna make this interesting again.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is how I feel. Whenever they're on screen, I find myself fast forwarding because I know nothing interesting is going to happen. It's not their fault. Ziggler could be a solid main eventer, but WWE ruined Swagger too much. I don't think theres any hope for him now.

And I want to see the Mason Ryan/Ziggler partnership. Drop Vickie. Bring the Eagle back and get some individuality!
I miss the damn eagle, yes it was stupid, but it was different, it was interesting, it's better than oh it's that guy with the same stupid haircut as laurinaitis
 

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Maybe is Ziggler's fault for being a "Show Off" and overselling every spot. He basically showed creative that he's a overselling spot monkey and creative simply decided to use him for that role. Just look at Heath Slater and Evan Bourne for example.

Personally WWE wasted the potential of this stable. Not only should they have been booked stronger but they should have added members as well. I think Drew McIntyre would have fit in nicely with Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger and Mason as the enforcer completes the four guys Vickie builds around her stable. Instead Swagger & Dolph have become jobbers for main eventers and comedy characters.
 

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Something will be done just don't know when tbh.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The problem is not that they aren't being booked strongly, the problem is they just get booked, just booked, they are just there, they are there to make Cena and Sheamus look good and to take pins nothing more, the biggest issue is not the wins and losses, jericho has done nothing lose every important match since his return but still he has a character, he is something people don't like, Ryback doesn't say shit, lord tensai doesn't say shit and they win all the time, nobody cares about either of them though, it's about being in actual feuds, not just wrestle for the sake of wrestling, there is no stake at all with the matches we see and we don't care, or at least I don't and I feel that's the biggest issue with why I am bored in general with the majority of the guys in the WWE
 
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