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So if a Jedi kills in aggression they're automatically on the dark side? This is what you're saying?


Tell me more about how much you understand the material!

TFA is absolutely not a complete turn to the darkside. JJ has said as much. Novelizations and Adam Driver say as much. You can't just make up bullshit that isn't true to support your easily disproven argument.

WTF do you mean "mastering the light and the dark side"? In TLJ Rey gets pwned by two Force masters who are significantly more powerful than her and with Kylos aid, she kills a room of forceless guards. That's notably less impressive than Luke Skywalker fighting and killing an entire barge full of gangsters. Sure in Rise of Skywalker she becomes fucking Force Jesus and she can suddenly deflect lightning, which in canon is a VERY hard skill to do that only Mace Windu knew, but that's not TLJ's problem.

Seriously, what is Reys big horrible OP moment in TLJ? She gets out dueled by Luke and only "wins" because she pulls a superior weapon on the man who 1) disarmed her and 2) WAY out skilled her as a duelist. Then she helps Kylo kill a room of goons and then lifts some rocks. That's it? THAT'S the God mode OP Mary Sue business in TLJ? In TFA she's a fucking hobo girl who can 1) Fight off multiple assailants AT THE SAME TIME with a fucking stick 2) She can fly the Falcon better than anyone 3) Fix the Falcon better than Han Solo can 4) She bonds with Han Solo like the daughter he never had in like 5 minutes 5) Teaches herself the Force mindtrick instantly. 6) Manages to beat Kylo who's been training with a lightsaber his entire life by just... Digging really deep, I guess. 7) Can speak Wookie despite being some hobo girl who SHOULD NOT speak wookie. 8) Oh and she's the best engineer ever.

Compared to the TLJ where she cheats to win a duel, kills a few guards, lifts some rocks. The rest of the movie she's fucking up. JJ Abrams is the one who made Rey OP dude. Admit it. Just admit when you're wrong.
So you show me a youtube where he's not at all killing in anger. Good job on that.

It literally mirrors the scene where Vader kills Obi Wan aka one of the last good things left in him on that side, but sure it wasn't an 100 percent turn because he didn't get to his mother yet.

She got pwned by Snoke, and the only reason that happened was because rian needed Kylo to kill Snoke. She made Luke her bitch with little to no training, easily fought off guards that Kylo struggled with and lifted rocks at the end once again, without training.

and for the list, novel explains alot of that: 1. she fought no names with a stick, don't imagine that would be too hard. 2. she can fly and fix the falcon better because a) she's been working on the falcon ever since the shop keeper acquired it so of course she would know how to fix it, and she's been practicing on a flight simulator, combine that with her force sensitivity that explains that. 4. No idea what bonding has to do with anything. 5 was admittedly ridiculous, but even that I can explain that by her getting that from Kylos mind when he tried to fuck with her. 6 still ignores the fact that Kylo was fading and clearly not trying to kill her while she drew on the dark side of the force to finish him off. 7. she can speak wookie and droid and other languages of the sort because she ran the shop when the shopkeeper wasn't so yes it would behoove her to learn those languages.

Even in your own words, she beat luke in a duel, did a better job of killing the trained guards then even kylo and I guess taught herself offscreen how to lift rocks? She mightve been OP in tfa but even then shit could be explained, TLJ didnt even bother doing that and just made her even more powerful.
 

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So you show me a youtube where he's not at all killing in anger. Good job on that.

It literally mirrors the scene where Vader kills Obi Wan aka one of the last good things left in him on that side, but sure it wasn't an 100 percent turn because he didn't get to his mother yet.

She got pwned by Snoke, and the only reason that happened was because rian needed Kylo to kill Snoke. She made Luke her bitch with little to no training, easily fought off guards that Kylo struggled with and lifted rocks at the end once again, without training.

and for the list, novel explains alot of that: 1. she fought no names with a stick, don't imagine that would be too hard. 2. she can fly and fix the falcon better because a) she's been working on the falcon ever since the shop keeper acquired it so of course she would know how to fix it, and she's been practicing on a flight simulator, combine that with her force sensitivity that explains that. 4. No idea what bonding has to do with anything. 5 was admittedly ridiculous, but even that I can explain that by her getting that from Kylos mind when he tried to fuck with her. 6 still ignores the fact that Kylo was fading and clearly not trying to kill her while she drew on the dark side of the force to finish him off. 7. she can speak wookie and droid and other languages of the sort because she ran the shop when the shopkeeper wasn't so yes it would behoove her to learn those languages.

Even in your own words, she beat luke in a duel, did a better job of killing the trained guards then even kylo and I guess taught herself offscreen how to lift rocks? She mightve been OP in tfa but even then shit could be explained, TLJ didnt even bother doing that and just made her even more powerful.
Hahahahahahahaha. "He's not killing in anger!"

Oh OK. So he's KILLING PEOPLE politely. Oooo that makes it OK! Oh I get it!

For fucks sake dude, she did NOT MAKE LUKE HER BITCH. You're living in an alternate reality because you want things to bitch about. There's PLENTY of legit problems to complain about! You don't have to invent things!

I'm sorry, but I'm done now. This is a joke of a conversation, and if you're going to keep insisting that the sky is green, what's the point? For the final time, SHE DID NOT BEAT LUKE IN A DUEL. She got frustrated when it became clear she COULDN'T win the duel, so she cheated to end the duel. That's VERY DIFFERENT FROM WINNING. Like, significantly noticeably different things. But you keep trying to fly in under the radar like she whooped his ass lmfao.

She does not kill like legions more guards than Kylo does, once again wtf are you talking about? She did a little trick thing so suddenly Kylo is dogshit and she's God? Live in reality guy.

1) A 120 pound teenage girl fighting of ANYONE is a big damn deal. 2) Basically your excuse for everything else amounts to "she's force sensitive" aka the good old "A wizard did it" fall back. So OK. Apply your own logic to TLJ. She can kill just as many guards as Kylo can because a wizard did it. She can cheat to win duels because a wizard did it.

You make all these excuses for dogshit writing, you've got this laundry list of explanations that ARE NOT IN THE ACTUAL FILM TFA but only in supplementary material, and then you PILE ON to the movie that has her objectively the least OP Mary Sue in the entire franchise. What did Rian Johnson do to your Mama kid? Because you're not supporting anything you say with good examples. Are you just like 12 and you saw people pile onto TLJ's hate train and you just jumped on without actually understanding what you were hating?

Slow-motion footage of Heph trying to argue out of his league.

 

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Hahahahahahahaha. "He's not killing in anger!"

Oh OK. So he's KILLING PEOPLE politely. Oooo that makes it OK! Oh I get it!

For fucks sake dude, she did NOT MAKE LUKE HER BITCH. You're living in an alternate reality because you want things to bitch about. There's PLENTY of legit problems to complain about! You don't have to invent things!

I'm sorry, but I'm done now. This is a joke of a conversation, and if you're going to keep insisting that the sky is green, what's the point? For the final time, SHE DID NOT BEAT LUKE IN A DUEL. She got frustrated when it became clear she COULDN'T win the duel, so she cheated to end the duel. That's VERY DIFFERENT FROM WINNING. Like, significantly noticeably different things. But you keep trying to fly in under the radar like she whooped his ass lmfao.

She does not kill like legions more guards than Kylo does, once again wtf are you talking about? She did a little trick thing so suddenly Kylo is dogshit and she's God? Live in reality guy.

1) A 120 pound teenage girl fighting of ANYONE is a big damn deal. 2) Basically your excuse for everything else amounts to "she's force sensitive" aka the good old "A wizard did it" fall back. So OK. Apply your own logic to TLJ. She can kill just as many guards as Kylo can because a wizard did it. She can cheat to win duels because a wizard did it.

You make all these excuses for dogshit writing, you've got this laundry list of explanations that ARE NOT IN THE ACTUAL FILM TFA but only in supplementary material, and then you PILE ON to the movie that has her objectively the least OP Mary Sue in the entire franchise. What did Rian Johnson do to your Mama kid? Because you're not supporting anything you say with good examples. Are you just like 12 and you saw people pile onto TLJ's hate train and you just jumped on without actually understanding what you were hating?

Slow-motion footage of Heph trying to argue out of his league.

Yes killing people in anger is what leads you to the darkside which has always been the argument. That youtube video you posted counters jack shit.

Luke cowering on the floor while giving rey the answers she seeks even though he didn't want to = making him her bitch. Call it what you want, but thats what it is at that point.

She didn't cheat to win shit. He pissed her off, she attacked, he fought back and even successfully defended himself she grabbed something else and he stayed the fuck down. Play word games all you want, she won the duel.

She killed guards with ease while Kylo struggled. Whether she killed legions more is irrelevant.

1. Being able to fight people off with your staff has nothing to do with your weight class but I love how you keep trying to use her weight like thats supposed to mean something.
2.Being able to fly better due to being force sensitive is a thing that both Luke and Anakin were able to do and neither had to be trained to do it. Nice try though.

And the fact that your last paragraph is nothing but insults cuz I insulted your god for writing a franchise killer movie is nothing but funny to me. I admitted she had ridiculous powers in tfa, so thats irrelevant. Meanwhile you complain about my using written works to counter things, when you've been doing that yourself? I can see why you love Rian Johnson, cant even follow your own rules.

Your move iron man!
89097
 

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Yes killing people in anger is what leads you to the darkside which has always been the argument. That youtube video you posted counters jack shit.

Luke cowering on the floor while giving rey the answers she seeks even though he didn't want to = making him her bitch. Call it what you want, but thats what it is at that point.

She didn't cheat to win shit. He pissed her off, she attacked, he fought back and even successfully defended himself she grabbed something else and he stayed the fuck down. Play word games all you want, she won the duel.

She killed guards with ease while Kylo struggled. Whether she killed legions more is irrelevant.

1. Being able to fight people off with your staff has nothing to do with your weight class but I love how you keep trying to use her weight like thats supposed to mean something.
2.Being able to fly better due to being force sensitive is a thing that both Luke and Anakin were able to do and neither had to be trained to do it. Nice try though.

And the fact that your last paragraph is nothing but insults cuz I insulted your god for writing a franchise killer movie is nothing but funny to me. I admitted she had ridiculous powers in tfa, so thats irrelevant. Meanwhile you complain about my using written works to counter things, when you've been doing that yourself? I can see why you love Rian Johnson, cant even follow your own rules.

Your move iron man!
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So tired of this. She. Did. Not. Win. The. Duel.

If we're having an MMA fight and I pull a gun on you, I did not "win the fight." I cheated to end the fight.
 

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That would be because there are rules in MMA. There aren't any rules in a non sanctioned fight which is what that was.
 

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That would be because there are rules in MMA. There aren't any rules in a non sanctioned fight which is what that was.
So to be clear what's going on here. Your issue with Rey is that she's given too much too easily. She's too powerful. Which implies that she out skilled Luke. She was a better fighter than he was and she beat him at lightsaber combat by being faster and more skilled and better.

Instead, she got schooled, and the only instances of her getting one up on Luke, hitting him in the head from behind and pulling a more dangerous weapon, escalating the situation, is what makes her OP?

She's a mary sue because she's too good at cheating?

I fundamentally do not agree that Rey is an OP dramatically uninteresting Mary Sue in TLJ. She's those things in JJ's movies for sure. But TLJ's problems are for the most part not the Jedi storyline. It's Poe and Finn's stories where things really start to fall apart in that movie.
 

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Rey had a Hall of Fame-worthy career but I think it's time for him to finally call it quits. He's had too many leg injury operations and he relies on high-flying to win matches.
 

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So to be clear what's going on here. Your issue with Rey is that she's given too much too easily. She's too powerful. Which implies that she out skilled Luke. She was a better fighter than he was and she beat him at lightsaber combat by being faster and more skilled and better.

Instead, she got schooled, and the only instances of her getting one up on Luke, hitting him in the head from behind and pulling a more dangerous weapon, escalating the situation, is what makes her OP?

She's a mary sue because she's too good at cheating?

I fundamentally do not agree that Rey is an OP dramatically uninteresting Mary Sue in TLJ. She's those things in JJ's movies for sure. But TLJ's problems are for the most part not the Jedi storyline. It's Poe and Finn's stories where things really start to fall apart in that movie.
If you consider that too good at cheating than Luke really isnt a jedi master cuz that was schoolboy level shit that Luke shouldve easily been able to counter if its as you described. Even if I ignore that particular monstrosity in favor of her just being really good at "cheating", a jedi storyline where Luke of all people is even considering killing someone in their sleep is extremely problematic, her being able to defeat trained guards as good as if not better than Kylo is problematic, her being able to randomly lift rocks without any training is also problematic. However I will agree that the transgressions against Finn was the most problematic part of the movie and Poe's storyline was just idiotic as it was just people acting stupid to either deliver a message or keep the movie moving along.
 

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If you consider that too good at cheating than Luke really isnt a jedi master cuz that was schoolboy level shit that Luke shouldve easily been able to counter if its as you described. Even if I ignore that particular monstrosity in favor of her just being really good at "cheating", a jedi storyline where Luke of all people is even considering killing someone in their sleep is extremely problematic, her being able to defeat trained guards as good as if not better than Kylo is problematic, her being able to randomly lift rocks without any training is also problematic. However I will agree that the transgressions against Finn was the most problematic part of the movie and Poe's storyline was just idiotic as it was just people acting stupid to either deliver a message or keep the movie moving along.
So I've been through the "Luke would NEVER kill a child in their sleep!" argument many many times before.

Basically I see it this way. In the OT, Luke was taunted by Vader that Vader was going to find Leia and turn her to evil. As a result, Luke goes on a sustained angry RAGE against Vader and literally beats him down to the point that he's just wailing on him in a rage. Luke Skywalker is a very emotional dude. He's aww shucks, he wears his heart on his sleeve. And in his worst moments, we've seen he's capable of regrettable violence.

So cut to many years later, and a Luke who's a little bit older and a little wiser looks into his nephew's head, because he's concerned about him. What he sees is the Sandy Hook murderer times like a billion. He sees anger and hate and an intent to murder billions, which Kylo will go on to do with Starkiller base. Now obviously, what Luke sees out of Ben is much MUCH worse than Vader taunting him about turning his sis evil. We're talking about mass genocide. So as a result, even though he's older and wiser now, Luke has a very brief emotional reaction. He is an emotional person after all. But because he's older and wiser, he doesn't attack Kylo in a RAGE for like 2 minutes like in ROTJ. Instead of he feels shame about what he's doing basically instantly. WTF am I doing? This is my nephew. I don't believe in this. I believe in mercy and understanding and empathy. By that point, Kylo was awake and it was too late.

To me that's perfectly logical, and it tracks well with Lukes actions in the past. I'm POSITIVE you'll disagree, because you disagree about everything, but that's my thought process.

Look man if it was up to ME writing these movies, Rey would NOT just be this automatically awesome supergirl. That's stupid and annoying to watch. I like the idea of an Alladin style street smart kid who is force sensitive, it's a different story than a bored farm boy dreaming of adventure. But like most things about the sequel trilogy, there was a germ of a good idea there, but the execution was just wrong in 1000 little ways.
 

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Rey will be back after a little holiday. But he might be on SmackDown or NXT. It’d be a good chance to move him around.
 
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