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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These guys are not idiots.

You do not run a multi-million dollar company with four different shows, merchandise sales through the roof, licensing deals with games companies ect ect if you are a bunch of idiots.

These are clever, clever people.

Great, now that is out of the way.

Do you guys HONESTLY think that the WWE does not know about the IWC hating on Cena, PG, Orton, Rey, Creative situation?

Also the Bryan, CM Punk, Del Rio and most other Heel love the IWC seems to gush over?

I believe the marketing geniuses of the WWE have taken the following route AFTER the death of kayfabe. We all know that wrestling matches' endings are pre-determined (I refuse to call it fake - you don't get many injuries in theater) - therefore it is VERY hard to get a reaction from anybody over 16 who is internet savvy and know that the guys are only play-fighting.

What do you do? Make everybody a tweener of sorts. You can see it even in last night's RAW.

Cena is the "good guy" who the kids love - they don't get that he sometimes acts like an extreme asshole with the content of his promos and actions and they cheer for him. He gets a reaction, sells merch to them = GREAT!

The IWC (not all) hate Cena as they see him as Super Cena, beating and burying all of their favorites - on top of that he is a robot who acts only one way and spouts of terrible lines. He gets a reaction from them (loud boo's), the IWC buys the merch of HIS COMPETITOR = Great

Just like the kids see CM Punk / Chris Jericho / Wade as baddies - because they do not understand in their promo's they are saying true things about the Cena / Orton characters. They just see them act bad - therefore they give a reaction (boo's) = Great

These guys again are IWC darlings, good on the mic, opponents to Cena and even gets some cheers from males over 16 + sell merch to them = GREAT

WWE knows kayfabe is dead, and they are gearing all their top characters to walk a tight rope in order to get the best reaction from everybody in the crowd - even if it is cheer / boo - it is still a reaction that leads to sales of some sort - there is nothing like bad press. The concept of heels / faces have been thrown out the window - we can almost start referring to wrestlers by Under 16 and Over 16 pandering

The funny thing is, that most of the IWC, myself included has fallen for this hook, line and sinker

Just look at the title of this thread - I bet most clicked here to see some Cena, WWE, Creative bashing - it is easy to manipulate people like that.

Just some food for thought for all those guys thinking they are hurting Cena, Creative ect by giving them terrible reactions.

The worst reaction is complete quiet - just ask Ted jnr.
 

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Cena is one of most talent superstar today but with current supercena kids/ladies loving grimmick and the way they book cena shoving down to our throat really hurt his image. right now RAW is Cena predictable show.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cena is one of most talent superstar today but with current supercena kids/ladies loving grimmick and the way they book cena shoving down to our throat really hurt his image. right now RAW is Cena predictable show.
That is kind of what I mean. Have you ever watched a kid's show like Sesame street? those fooking puppets come out and go on and on and on about the same thing "this show is brought to you by the letter B, B, B, B, B..."

Do you know why they do that? Psychologically a kid only learns something by the 5th to 10th time they hear it. So, having Cena overbooked in your opinion does not hold true for the 5 to 10 yrs old crowd. They are eating that shit up. Repetition is their life blood.

So, what happens? Cena gets overbooked - the kids know they should cheer because that is the way they are indoctrinated - you as an over 16 year old (I assume) gets pissed off and possibly boooo him, because you do not need the repetition - you need diversity to be stimulated.

Therefore you get a cheer / boo reaction which leads to $$$$$ of either Cena sales or his competitor sales, which means job done.

They will continue to overbook him for exactly this reason.
 

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Sesame Street teaches kids the alphabet. The letter "B" is a letter that starts words like "Ball", "Boy", and "Back".

Sesame Street makes more sense than WWE creative. I give WWE creative zero credit for having worse writing than Sesame Street.

I do get the rest of your post and especially agree with the Ted Jr. comment. But the creative team are idiots.
 

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If they were clever, clever people PPV buyrates wouldn't be in the toilet. It has less to do with what some diehard fans on the internet want, and more to do with their incapacity to book effective longterm storylines, character growth, payoffs that matter and stipulations that are actually upheld.
 

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I've mentioned before that Cena is the IWC's anti villain and also mentioned how Cole was originally not supposed to be everyone's heel and was clearly aimed to be the IWC's heel, which is why he is against faces like Daniel Bryan and for faces like John Cena. And you can clearly tell Cena is mocking the IWC with his PG comments as of late, like his DQ'ing Punk and Wade on Raw for using foul language on a PG show and show on.
 

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I can´t see how boos for Cena lead to more merchandise sales for his opponents in the "Over 16" demographic. That works only once, like with the current Punk storyline, where the heel calls the face a hypocrite and has actually good arguments, before it becomes repetitive. I´m not buying Orton merch because he´s Cena´s biggest enemy.

I also fail to see why Sesame Street should be the desired format for a PG wrestling show. Ask kids which shows they really love, and you´ll get answers like Harry Potter, Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh. All of these shows/films have more complex characters as their protagonists than your average WWE wrestler. The only advantage the WWE has is that their stars are real people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If they were clever, clever people PPV buyrates wouldn't be in the toilet. It has less to do with what some diehard fans on the internet want, and more to do with their incapacity to book effective longterm storylines, character growth, payoffs that matter and stipulations that are actually upheld.
PPV sales are not the only measurement of a company's brain power. For instance, it is clear they are chasing more and more Euro's and Pounds by getting foreign stars into the main event and having shows over in other countries on a more regular basis.

They have also remained a viable business even through a three year world-wide economic downturn that have flattened other companies. A downturn's main characteristic being that the first thing people spend less on is entertainment of any form. And wrestling is expensive entertainment - compared to going for a movie or renting a DVD.

I think that speaks to more brains than you might give them credit for - regardless of your opinion if they tell a good story or not. I believe they know exactly what they are doing - otherwise they would look more like TNA or ROH
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I can´t see how boos for Cena lead to more merchandise sales for his opponents in the "Over 16" demographic. That works only once, like with the current Punk storyline, where the heel calls the face a hypocrite and has actually good arguments, before it becomes repetitive. I´m not buying Orton merch because he´s Cena´s biggest enemy.

I also fail to see why Sesame Street should be the desired format for a PG wrestling show. Ask kids which shows they really love, and you´ll get answers like Harry Potter, Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh. All of these shows/films have more complex characters as their protagonists than your average WWE wrestler. The only advantage the WWE has is that their stars are real people.
You might not be buying more merch because of the point I raised - but you can bet your butt someone out there right now is buying some Nexus merch since Cena sucks and he supports the enemy. C'mon - it's marketing 101.

I don't propose everybody falls for it - but I do think a large margin does - just look at the crowd sometimes - especially the older guys > there are a lot of CM Punk or Nexus shirts out there.

Also, I was using Sesame street as an example to explain how repetitiveness works in kid's programming - not using it as a template for how WWE writes or should write their scripts.

I'll use your examples, as they use the same method

Naruto (one of my favorites, btw) - the premise for each volume is startlingly similar - despite who is feuding with who. Naturo is intimidated by Sasuke, or is looking for him - a new enemy crosses his path, he needs to get stronger. Happened with Gaara, then Orichimaru, then the Ataksuki. repeat, repeat, repeat - the villain changes, but the core of the story stays the same.

Hell, Japanese manga is even more notorious for keeping the status quo of a premise - american comics (barring the big ones) are more keen to shake up a premise (note, I say premisem the core component of the story - not the actual story)

Harry Potter? Uses the same repeat mechanism in order to indoctrinate the audience. I ask you, how many times where the defense against the dark arts teacher the baddie? How many times did we have to hear Harry ride the fucking train to hogwarts, or he has an owl, or Snape is a douche or blah blah blah. Repeating stuff is how you cater for kids.

Sorry - off on a tangent there - but I suppose my point came accross
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
WWE Creative are probably pretty smart people, no doubt. I wouldn't go so far as to call them geniuses though.
I did say marketing geniuses though - which I suspect are the guys cracking the whip over creative to begin with.

"We need to sell more WWE rings with the Flick function - we have John Morrison in the ad doing something cool! Don't let him lose tonight and Make him do something cool!!"

"yes sir, ok sir. Can we put over Zack Ryder?"

"No you dumbass! He hasn't sold one toy to one kid! Fuck, I tried to give one away for FREE to an orphan and he still tried to trade it for a Cena figure! ZACK NO MONEY!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I can´t see how boos for Cena lead to more merchandise sales for his opponents in the "Over 16" demographic. That works only once, like with the current Punk storyline, where the heel calls the face a hypocrite and has actually good arguments, before it becomes repetitive. I´m not buying Orton merch because he´s Cena´s biggest enemy.

I also fail to see why Sesame Street should be the desired format for a PG wrestling show. Ask kids which shows they really love, and you´ll get answers like Harry Potter, Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh. All of these shows/films have more complex characters as their protagonists than your average WWE wrestler. The only advantage the WWE has is that their stars are real people.
Just one more example. I ran an ad budget of about $21mil a year - which is peanuts compared to WWE, but still not too bad. One of the tricks we ALWAYS pulled was that we had our main brand which took up 70% of our budget - but then we would always launch a "competitive" brand that was more "street-smart" and "underground" just so that there was variety in the market.

That way, even if someone didn't like our main brand, they still bought from our "competitors" and the money still came to us.

Same thing - otherwise WWE would just make merch of their faces
 

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Kayfabe may be dead to you and I but all those children you've mentioned still think it's real so they'll keep it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Kayfabe may be dead to you and I but all those children you've mentioned still think it's real so they'll keep it that way.
Yeah, I agree with this.

That is why I say the WWE realizes this and are effectively creating storylines that cater to both kids and us who have peeked behind the curtain. Making their wrestlers more tweeners.

Heroes in act and deed to kids - but assholes in back stage promos and antics to us older chaps.
 

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vince isnt an idiot. the people in creative are fucking idiots!!
did you not see that ex writers blog? he wanted awesome kong to be daniel bryans mystery girlfriend. nuff said.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
vince isnt an idiot. the people in creative are fucking idiots!!
did you not see that ex writers blog? he wanted awesome kong to be daniel bryans mystery girlfriend. nuff said.
If he is not just some Internet hack and he really was a writer - then they actually fired him - which might again point to some intelligence.

ok, they also hired him in the first place - but who of us didn't hire a dud before?
 

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Um, if they are so clever why are buyrates down? Why have they bungled on characters like Swagger, McIntyre, Bryan and Kingston when there are so many top tier talents whose retirements seem imminent? Why did they just lose 2 dollars a share?
 

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WWE Creative are probably pretty smart people, no doubt. I wouldn't go so far as to call them geniuses though.
They could be smart people sure, but that doesn't mean they know how to write and book an interesting program. There are plenty of people all over the world who are ill equipped to do their jobs. Whether it's the dumb idiot behind the register at Wendy's, or your dumb ass boss who can't even demonstrate decent people skills, or a CEO who got his job because he was the former CEO's son in law. The point is not everyone at their job is good at it.

Let's not all just take the attitude of, "Well there's a reason you're posting on a message board and he's writing for WWE". It's very, very possible that a lot of people who post on this forum are more than capable of putting on a logical, engaging wrestling show. Let's not put the people in WWE creative on a pedestal just because they work in WWE Creative. We don't know who they are, how they got that position in the first place, or the politics involved.

Anyone who's been watching WWE/F since the 80's and 90's could see the clear lack of structure and direction in today's product. It's actually rather horrible. I don't care what their figures are for the fiscal year. I don't care about their business model. I'm saying the product blows.
 
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