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Agree with 99% percent of what you said but kinda throw up in my mouth a little about you ranking Cena #5. The guy was a negative on the business, not a positive. He drove more fans away from the product than anyone in the history of WWE. For this reason he shouldn't be in anyone's top anything unless it's a top list of wrestlers that caused fans to stop watching WWE.
Personally, I can’t stomach Cena either, but I’ve made the decision based on the fact that he defined and carried an era and his title hike can’t really be ignored. Appreciate he turned fans away eventually, but from 2004 to 2009/10 he was mega over (the pop at the 2008 Rumble says it all) and his merch was flying off the shelf.
 

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Personally, I can’t stomach Cena either, but I’ve made the decision based on the fact that he defined and carried an era and his title hike can’t really be ignored. Appreciate he turned fans away eventually, but from 2004 to 2009/10 he was mega over (the pop at the 2008 Rumble says it all) and his merch was flying off the shelf.
He defined an era that was the biggest loss of viewership percentage wise of all time as well as basically being the poster child of wrestling not being "cool" anymore. He personally caused me to quit watching WWE from 2006-2013 and a lot of people I know who were big fans of the AE and early 2000s to never watch wrestling again. Merch sales are irrelevant because if WWE actually had a FotC that was universally liked they would of destroyed Cena's merch sales.
 

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He defined an era that was the biggest loss of viewership percentage wise of all time as well as basically being the poster child of wrestling not being "cool" anymore. He personally caused me to quit watching WWE from 2006-2013 and a lot of people I know who were big fans of the AE and early 2000s to never watch wrestling again. Merch sales are irrelevant because if WWE actually had a FotC that was universally liked they would of destroyed Cena's merch sales.
To be fair, they lost a lot of viewership prior to Cena, around that 2002-2003 period when all the big stars left/retired. I mean the fall of 2002 WWE was completely unwatchable. I love Brock but he couldn't fill that void
 

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To be fair, they lost a lot of viewership prior to Cena, around that 2002-2003 period when all the big stars left/retired. I mean the fall of 2002 WWE was completely unwatchable. I love Brock but he couldn't fill that void
Yes the ratings were falling by 2002-2003 but Cena did nothing to improve the ratings and they continued to fall to the point we're at now under his reign. How can you rate someone #5 of all time when they did nothing to stop the ratings from falling and in fact exasperated the rate of declining interest?
 

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Discussion Starter #65
Agree with 99% percent of what you said but kinda throw up in my mouth a little about you ranking Cena #5. The guy was a negative on the business, not a positive. He drove more fans away from the product than anyone in the history of WWE. For this reason he shouldn't be in anyone's top anything unless it's a top list of wrestlers that caused fans to stop watching WWE.
Bret at #2 though. I'm not a Bret hater but he wasn't a big draw or biggest fan favorite.
 

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Bret at #2 though. I'm not a Bret hater but he wasn't a big draw or biggest fan favorite.
I think there is an argument to have Bret on Mt. Rushmore. He was probably the greatest ring worker of all time and was pretty much universally loved as a face with many memorable moments and basically kick starting the AE. I can much more easily accept someone putting Bret on Rushmore compared to Cena.
 

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It doesn't surprise me that a charisma vacuum like Rollins wouldn't recognise the Rocks talents.

Seths best days were in the Shield and now he is just an afterthought. Still at least he is the undisputed crybaby of wrestling twitter...
 

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ITT a bunch of smarks over 40 not realising that even though they hated Cena he brought in the young audience during his tenure. And without that WWE would be dead faster than it's currently dying.

Superman Vs John Cena means, etc are a thing for a reason.
 

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ITT a bunch of smarks over 40 not realising that even though they hated Cena he brought in the young audience during his tenure. And without that WWE would be dead faster than it's currently dying.

Superman Vs John Cena means, etc are a thing for a reason.
How did he "bring in the young audience"? The ratings declined over the course of his career. Wouldn't that mean he drove away the "young audience" along with the rest of the audience? Do you have any actual facts to back up this claim he increased the "young audience" compared to other real draws in wrestling history?
 

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Really you have hogan and then Austin, and then there is an argument for a raft of people for the final two spots spanning several decades.
 

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Why did Rollins mention Austin is a bigger fan favorite than the Rock yet he put Cena on Mt Rushmore? Cena was booed by half the audience.
cause he's clearly trying to start some shit. He's clout chasing. No one even asked him about who is better/bigger between Austin and Rock.

Plus, Cena and Bruno are not even in Rock's level.

He won the WWF title at Survivor Series 1998 to be Vince's stooge for Austin to beat at Mania 15..

Sure Rock got over in the Summer 1998 feuding with HHH over the IC title but he was not ME until he won at Survivor Series
Fair enough.



He only became the top babyface after Austin went down with the neck injury at Survivor Series 1999. You can argue that but he was fumbling around with Mr. Ass at Summerslam 1999 while Austin was in the ME.
He was already the top babyface, even before Survivor Series 1999, he was killing Austin in ratings, Merch sales, and even live gates. From a booking standpoint, sure Austin was the top guy, but this had nothing to do with popularity.


Rock was top baby during 2000 and yes ppl always talk about the ratings in 2000 but you know why because it was 2000 WCW they were going against
...and Rock had no other mega star to carry the load with him like Austin in 1999 when he had Rock.

Plus, there was no WCW 2001, and yet the company couldn't reach that level of success again.


After Summerslam 2002 he is done as a full timer and doesn't show back up until early 2003 and turns heel (even if it is some of my favorite Rock) definitely nowhere near a top baby

Yet he was clearly the company's biggest draw.

During that 3 month run, he main-evented every PPV(technically he didn't main event WM 19, but only because of what happened to Austin the day before the event), as a heel, without even having to carry the belt or wrestle for it.


I won't even touch the Cena and Punk stuff
Of course, you have no rebuttal for this.


Just a stretch to say 8 years on top when half (or more) of that he was "part time".
Ok. let's do this again:

Austin 1998-1999, 2001-mid 2002, March 2003. That's 3yrs and a half(and I'm being very generous since Austin spent most of the first half of 2002 working in the midcard, and wasn't nearly as over as he used to be).

Rock 1999-mid 2001, late 2001-mid 2002, Feb 2003- May 2003,....if you strip away his off days between 2011-2013, you'd get a good 6 month run as a top guy. That's a 4yr run.


So what's your point?...
 

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Cena? The guy who chased away more fans during his run than pretty much anybody? Right..........
 

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Austin, Rock, Hogan and Sammartino are my Rushmore. They ALL contributed to wrestling becoming the amazing profession that it is. Austin vs Rock is a classic debate, I love em both. They both helped and had a part in creating one of the best periods in wrestling itself. Why can't people enjoy that.
 

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I've never seen a more insecure fan base than Rock fans. It's never Austin fans that start this debate. They already know where Austin's prowrestling legacy stands.
They're the worst.
 
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