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TEAM DEPPIE
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Discussion Starter #181
Personally, I think that wrestlers know we are right sometimes, and that's why they don't like it. So they "answer us" in different ways. Like Cena with his Twitter trolling, or other guys saying we don't know anything.
Yup. Roman is sensitive so he bottles his shit up and then lashes out.

Cena goes the trolling and "you mad :troll" route as you pointed out.

Seth is just like :rollins "You mad because Im awesome, huh :D:"

Dean doesn't give a fuck at all I think :lol

Miz seems to have Vince's viewpoint in a lot of ways in how he blames the fans for certain things.

Older wrestlers preferred when fans "knew their place".

I always think about about what Dave Meltzer said about the mindset many wrestlers had back in the day. How a lot of them really didn't care much for the fans and their thoughts and it all was just a con for them.

Dave does think this generation of wrestlers care a lot more about the fans though. Which may be the reason why thy bristle so much at criticism, because they actually give a damn and get all bent out of shape.
 

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a Stupid Idea from Bad Creative
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@Ramsay Bolton

I think another reason wrestlers seem to care more and more about the fans, at least recently for the WWE guys is they all saw what the fan support did for Daniel Bryan. So they are either striving to make that same type of connection or some of them probably just resent the fans for not supporting them the same way.

Obviously pure speculation on my part, but I would think the WWE guys seeing what happened with Daniel Bryan had to have some effect on the way they perceive their relationship with the fans.
 

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From parts unknown
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So, Seth finally explains heat and what it really is as he is the guy who gets the most heat, week in AND week out. Thank you, Seth. (Y) Sadly, some people will still miss the point, but the majority still get it, and that's all that matters. And if people think he is going to be a mid-carder for the rest of his career after this title reign, they have another thing coming.

Great interview.
Unfortunately, he didn't describe what his heat is at all.

The problem with his "heat" is that it's not the "we want the belt off him heat" .. it's more the "he's booked like he's mediocre when he could be so much better ... or maybe he's really not that good" heat.

It's not exactly go away heat that Steph and many others get in the WWE. Nor is it typical heel heat that even Cena gets when he has the belt. It's a weird mixture of "oh shit, this is boring, but I thought it would be much better" kind of heat.

The fans (his fans and non-fans alike) actually want him to succeed and do well. He's one of the few rare guys in the WWE that can and has a market in all of WWE's segments.

Of course, now he's not going to come right out and admit that the WWE are booking him like shit even if he knows that they are --- or agree with critics either .. However, in this case much of what's been said or written about him and his booking is mostly spot on .. outside of the most rabid haters who "just don't like him".

I think he's a likeable guy who could have been in a much better position than he is (it's an odd thing to say considering he's champion, I know) ... They could've started the transition to babyface slowly which they haven't yet started. I'm hoping that they let the character evolve instead of just "Oh, I'm a face now" kind of stupid switch they do. Just like they did with his heel turn.

Thankfully he's still young so hopefully in time he'll be able to have a legendary career .. But if he does not find something to really connect to fans with and if his first few months as a singles wrestler are any indication .. Seth is actually and unfortunately destined for a very, very mediocre career in the long run. Or at least that's what it seems like.
 

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Ted the Moth
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Oh, so Seth endorses his shitty booking and takes full credit for being a pussy that accomplishes nothing on his own? Good to know. He'll get full blame for it as well.

Btw, I expect massive backlash for this quote, since Roman said something similar earlier this year and got 30 pages of bitching:


But I know I won't get that, because the "HE'S A HEEL" option select will be used in an obviously non kayfabe interview :HHH2
Yup! It was stupid when Reigns said it, it's stupid now Rollins is saying it too. What's different is people will attempt to take this and talk about "marks getting worked" by this interview, which is just :lol

I concede his point that heel work is an art form; there will always be some subjectivity in these things and the praise from his fans that he's doing a great job is just as valid as my opinion that he's been less than satisfactory. But whatever else he said about people not understanding heel heat in the modern reality era is crap, pretty much. A good heel has to succeed in pulling someone into the show, and make them feel things about the kayfabe of what's being presented. Every criticism or negative reaction cannot be automatically taken as somebody being worked, and trying to claim as much is pretty childish.

Long story short of it is this, for me: Seth is pretty decent at getting what I'll call "week-by-week" heat, as in he can get in front of a crowd every Monday and something he says or does (insult hometown, lowblowing a face or whatever it might be) will successfully garner legitimate heat. I personally feel that whatever he's involved in in the long run is what makes the whole thing fall down. It's not connecting particularly greatly.
 

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The interviewer was tossing him softballs the whole time, "well it's not you that they are angry with, rather your booking". Bull shit lol. The guy has stunk as the world champ, his promo's at this point are literally agonizing to listen to. And Rollins isn't taking the chicken shit heel thing and knocking it out of the park, but it's do-able though. Ric Flair is a great example of someone that did it well and made a career of it.
 

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I'll take you down the only road I've ever been do
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Unfortunately, he didn't describe what his heat is at all.

The problem with his "heat" is that it's not the "we want the belt off him heat" .. it's more the "he's booked like he's mediocre when he could be so much better ... or maybe he's really not that good" heat.

It's not exactly go away heat that Steph and many others get in the WWE. Nor is it typical heel heat that even Cena gets when he has the belt. It's a weird mixture of "oh shit, this is boring, but I thought it would be much better" kind of heat.

The fans (his fans and non-fans alike) actually want him to succeed and do well. He's one of the few rare guys in the WWE that can and has a market in all of WWE's segments.

Of course, now he's not going to come right out and admit that the WWE are booking him like shit even if he knows that they are --- or agree with critics either .. However, in this case much of what's been said or written about him and his booking is mostly spot on .. outside of the most rabid haters who "just don't like him".

I think he's a likeable guy who could have been in a much better position than he is (it's an odd thing to say considering he's champion, I know) ... They could've started the transition to babyface slowly which they haven't yet started. I'm hoping that they let the character evolve instead of just "Oh, I'm a face now" kind of stupid switch they do. Just like they did with his heel turn.

Thankfully he's still young so hopefully in time he'll be able to have a legendary career .. But if he does not find something to really connect to fans with and if his first few months as a singles wrestler are any indication .. Seth is actually and unfortunately destined for a very, very mediocre career in the long run. Or at least that's what it seems like.
If it was the type of heat you were talking about, it would have tapered off to him getting no response week in and week out by now. Not every heel is lucky enough to get heat, yet he has consistently gotten heat since the Shield broke-up, well over a year ago. Myself and plenty of others have talked about this numerous times on this thread. Not gonna repeat myself yet again because you just decided to make a beginning of the thread type post to me on this.
 

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Oh, so Seth endorses his shitty booking and takes full credit for being a pussy that accomplishes nothing on his own? Good to know. He'll get full blame for it as well.
Seth knows where his bread is buttered.

Whats he going to do.. say his booking was awful? That's real smart and an awesome way to nuke your career, particularly given you've had the #1 push for the past 3 months.
 

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TEAM DEPPIE
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Discussion Starter #188
@Ramsay Bolton

I think another reason wrestlers seem to care more and more about the fans, at least recently for the WWE guys is they all saw what the fan support did for Daniel Bryan. So they are either striving to make that same type of connection or some of them probably just resent the fans for not supporting them the same way.

Obviously pure speculation on my part, but I would think the WWE guys seeing what happened with Daniel Bryan had to have some effect on the way they perceive their relationship with the fans.
I can see some of them feeling hurt when fans give them a hard time. Especially in their point of view, they bust their ass and sacrifice a lot to do what they do and feel under appreciated.

All of them work very hard of course, but some of them are a bit more sensitive to fans than others.

As I said, Meltzer pointed out this generations care a lot more about the fans than the previous generations overall. They take in everything the fans say and to heart as we've obviously seen.

Dave also talked about how much more serious these guys are about the wrestling. Of course the previous guys did care too, especially protecting kayfabe. But the new generation really cares about their craft and view wrestling as an art form now. I've heard Seth and Roman both refer to it that way, an art form they were constantly trying to perfect, so Dave hit it right on the head.

So when you have guys who view it that way, I think some of them take their "craft" being shit on personally and lash out. Not saying they're right about how they react, but I see where the feelings are coming from.

It probably doesn't help that a lot of these guys look at the twitter/social media "criticisms" more than anything. A lot of those opinions are god awful and aren't presented with logic and thought like it is on a forum. Many of them are trolly and downright disgusting/vicious.

So I think they wrongfully paint fans with a general brush as "they're dumbass haters".
 

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Yeah, a lot of people thought Roman was the antichrist to the business and are now treating Seth the same way. Ratings aren't great, but that's because the overall product isn't great. Also, tv as a whole is declining. Even with lackluster ratings. Raw still is number 1 or 2 on cable on Mondays. So that really shows just how tv is as a whole.

I like to poke at Seth fans on the ratings, but I logically know it isn't Seth's fault. Brock is the hottest star in the company who doesn't even suffer from overexposure, yet he doesn't even move the needle worth shit. Neither does Undertaker.

The main roster has had better viewership without them. So it's just a reflection of the overall product :shrug



Is that when he knocked over Brock's seat?? :done



I don't pay attention to TV ratings as much since it's only a tenth of what WWE depends on, that and also too the landscape of TV has been declining. You maybe can fault Rollins for live event attendance, but I wouldn't say that's his fault. They are almost trending on twitter since that now is the in thing to do. He's drawing heat so that's all that really matters.
 

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@Ramsay Bolton

I think another reason wrestlers seem to care more and more about the fans, at least recently for the WWE guys is they all saw what the fan support did for Daniel Bryan. So they are either striving to make that same type of connection or some of them probably just resent the fans for not supporting them the same way.

Obviously pure speculation on my part, but I would think the WWE guys seeing what happened with Daniel Bryan had to have some effect on the way they perceive their relationship with the fans.
I can see some of them feeling hurt when fans give them a hard time. Especially in their point of view, they bust their ass and sacrifice a lot to do what they do and feel under appreciated.

All of them work very hard of course, but some of them are a bit more sensitive to fans than others.

As I said, Meltzer pointed out this generations care a lot more about the fans than the previous generations overall. They take in everything the fans say and to heart as we've obviously seen.

Dave also talked about how much more serious these guys are about the wrestling. Of course the previous guys did care too, especially protecting kayfabe. But the new generation really cares about their craft and view wrestling as an art form now. I've heard Seth and Roman both refer to it that way, an art form they were constantly trying to perfect, so Dave hit it right on the head.

So when you have guys who view it that way, I think some of them take their "craft" being shit on personally and lash out. Not saying they're right about how they react, but I see where the feelings are coming from.

It probably doesn't help that a lot of these guys look at the twitter/social media "criticisms" more than anything. A lot of those opinions are god awful and aren't presented with logic and thought like it is on a forum. Many of them are trolly and downright disgusting/vicious.

So I think they wrongfully paint fans with a general brush as "they're dumbass haters".

I think the biggest difference with the fan hate then and now is how in their face it is today. Before guys performed, got heat from the live audience and went home. Kayfabe was more alive so the wrestlers knew attacks were less personal. No one was talking about their booking, looking too weak/strong or comparing promo skills. No one was blasting guys for their workrate daily. No one was saying this guy doesnt deserve it. Social media wasnt around to constantly question and nitpick directly at the wrestlers. Internet articles werent all over the place talking about it either. Id say its much easier for these guys to get their feelings hurt or take offense today more than ever before.
 
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Good interview. Rollins comes across pretty well. I thought he would play up his heel persona but he didn't.


Oh, so Seth endorses his shitty booking and takes full credit for being a pussy that accomplishes nothing on his own? Good to know. He'll get full blame for it as well.

Btw, I expect massive backlash for this quote, since Roman said something similar earlier this year and got 30 pages of bitching:

I'm the one who sacrificed every relationship I've ever had to get to this point, and if that guy sitting on his couch, who never did a thing, wants to point fingers at me and talk to me about my championship reign – even if it's a good thing – he can suck it. His opinion is irrelevant to me.I'm the one who sacrificed every relationship I've ever had to get to this point, and if that guy sitting on his couch, who never did a thing, wants to point fingers at me and talk to me about my championship reign – even if it's a good thing – he can suck it. His opinion is irrelevant to me.
But I know I won't get that, because the "HE'S A HEEL" option select will be used in an obviously non kayfabe interview :HHH2

Firstly I am a fan of both Reigns AND Rollins. For me there is a difference.

Rollins never said that people can't have an opinion or don't have a right to it, he simply said he doesn't care and he knows himself when he's doing poor.

Reigns on the other hand said that fans are not entitled and shouldn't even have an opinion because they're not wrestlers, they need to just sit back and watch the show as it is.

Which of those comes across as more arrogant and conceited? Which one would you rather hear - someone who doesn't care about criticism or someone thinks they're privileged enough you can't even criticise them?

And to reiterate before the hate comes in, I do like Reigns and regarding his previous interviews I've praised his attitude with regards dedication/work ethic and criticised his ego and views of critics.
 

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I think the biggest difference with the fan hate then and now is how in their face it is today. Before guys performed, got heat from the live audience and went home. Kayfabe was more alive so the wrestlers knew attacks were less personal. No one was talking about their booking, looking too weak/strong or comparing promo skills. No one was blasting guys for their workrate daily. No one was saying this guy doesnt deserve it. Social media wasnt around to constantly question and nitpick directly at the wrestlers. Internet articles werent all over the place talking about it either. Id say its much easier for these guys to get their feelings hurt or take offense today more than ever before.



That's because most fans today don't know what they are talking about and are getting their information from 4th hand knowledge at best. Fans look at things from an off camera perspective, whereas it's presented as an on camera perspective. Sure you probably have wrestler's that are bitching about their spot, but wrestler's have been bitching about their spot since the 1950's.
 

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The EST of NXT
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Firstly I am a fan of both Reigns AND Rollins. For me there is a difference.

Rollins never said that people can't have an opinion or don't have a right to it, he simply said he doesn't care and he knows himself when he's doing poor.

Reigns on the other hand said that fans are not entitled and shouldn't even have an opinion because they're not wrestlers, they need to just sit back and watch the show as it is.

Which of those comes across as more arrogant and conceited? Which one would you rather hear - someone who doesn't care about criticism or someone thinks they're privileged enough you can't even criticise them?

And to reiterate before the hate comes in, I do like Reigns and regarding his previous interviews I've praised his attitude with regards dedication/work ethic and criticised his ego and views of critics.
Oh I'm not excusing Reigns' comments by any means. Both statements were equally douchey in my opinion. I'm just asking for consistency, and you gave an objective opinion, so cheers to you.
 
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