[The BoogeyMan]

A lot of people here at WF are complaining about unoriginality and how many traits of today's stars are just stolen from those of yesteryear. Swagger using The Ankle Lock, NXT's nWo-style invasion etc.

Well wrestling works in cycles and nothing ever really belongs to anyone, so for the sake of reminding ourselves (or even informing those who never knew), what else have we truly seen before? For example.

WCW's inception of nWo was based off an angle ran in NJPW.

The Ankle Lock may have been famed by Kurt Angle but it's original user was Ken Shamrock.

Dean Malenko invented The Crippler Crossface, not Chris Benoit.

Ric Flair took "The Nature Boy" nickname (and elements of the gimmick) from Buddy Rodgers

Sheamus' "Pale Justice" (horrible fucking name for a decent finisher) = Scott Hall's "Razors Edge"

Iron Sheik invented the term "Jabroni"

R-Truth's scissor kick is a spinning variant to the one made famous by Booker-T, the same way Morrison takes the split-legged aspect of Starship Pain from RVD's S-L Moonsalt, The RKO holds similarities to DDP's Diamond Cutter, DiBiase's "Dream Street" is like a follow-up from his father's finisher etc.

Then there's the more well-known ones, such as Billy Kidman doing the Shooting Star Press in WWE before Bourne etc.

Feel free to contribute.


The fact is that we shouldn't condemn something because it holds similarities to what we've seen before because quite frankly, some of it is really good and it'd be a shame to leave it on the shelf. The Ankle Lock is a great finisher and helps Swagger beat big guys. The RKO is probably wrestlings most perfect move. Ric Flair's Nature Boy was one of the best characters in wrestling history.

So yeah, feel free to list more comparisons but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if we've seen it before. If it's good, I'd like to see more of it in a different setting/era/character.

 

[NoGimmicksNeeded]

Spot on. As I said in a TNA section thread, true originality in wrestling is nearly impossible now. All you can hope for is a unique twist on an idea and good execution. That's precisely what people who enjoy the Nexus angle see in it.

 

[Edgehead 26]

Im not really bothered when I've seen something before if its good, for example, the ankle lock works for swagger and the nexus storyline is pretty good imo.

The only time it really bothers me is when storylines such as cena v orton are repeated for the 1000th time

 

[Kratosx23]

I'm offended that Swagger is using the Ankle Lock but only because it's Swagger. If it was somebody decent, I'd welcome them paying tribute to Angle (and they're clearly using his version, not Shamrocks, so fuck off with that argument). That's my problem, not them borrowing the move.

 

[CM12Punk]

I'm offended that Swagger is using the Ankle Lock but only because it's Swagger. If it was somebody decent, I'd welcome them paying tribute to Angle (and they're clearly using his version, not Shamrocks, so fuck off with that argument). That's my problem, not them borrowing the move.

But it's Swagger. He is decent.

 

[andy-500]

I don't mind them recycling things and the only point I disagree with is Swagger's ankle lock.

People don't complain about that because its someone elses move - its because Swagger was being compared to Angle already, and giving him the Ankle Lock just makes him look like a total parody of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Swagger is good enough to be his own man in my opinion so that is what is frustrating.

 

[joshman82]

shawn michaels and the elbow drop...he borrowed that with respect to savage. the chops to ric flair. and honestly, i think swagger is probably doing the ankle lock in respect to kurt angle.

 

[The BoogeyMan]

I'm offended that Swagger is using the Ankle Lock but only because it's Swagger. If it was somebody decent, I'd welcome them paying tribute to Angle (and they're clearly using his version, not Shamrocks, so fuck off with that argument). That's my problem, not them borrowing the move.

Without getting too into it (because yes, Swagger isn't patch on Angle) I think they recycle moves/elements in order to get them over with almost a rub effect.

I mean, while Swagger isn't as good as Angle, (& Morrison isn't as good as RVD, Truth as good as Booker-T, etc.), they'd want us to consider the two in the same bracket (almost as if "only the elite may use the ankle lock"). Whether it works or not is your own opinion.

Without turning this into a Swagger-discussion thread, I tend to take him more seriously now that he has a finisher he can use against bigger guys.

 

[Thumbinthebum]

I'm offended that Swagger is using the Ankle Lock but only because it's Swagger. If it was somebody decent, I'd welcome them paying tribute to Angle (and they're clearly using his version, not Shamrocks, so fuck off with that argument). That's my problem, not them borrowing the move.

I don't mind them recycling things and the only point I disagree with is Swagger's ankle lock.

People don't complain about that because its someone elses move - its because Swagger was being compared to Angle already, and giving him the Ankle Lock just makes him look like a total parody of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Swagger is good enough to be his own man in my opinion so that is what is frustrating.

Exactly. I'm with Andy-500 rather than pyro in that I do think Swagger is talented enough to have a decent career but we're all in agreement over his use of the ankle lock. Whether we see it as an insult to Angle or a parody of him, the point is that it hurts his chances of getting over on his own merits.

I'll add a few of my own. CM Punk's mask to hide his shaved head has been done many times. In WWE, both Kurt Angle and Molly Holly have done it with wigs and back in the 80s, Buddy Roberts of The Fabulous Freebirds did it in WCCW.

Matt Hardy's cast which he used as a weapon last year was previously used by Owen Hart and Cowboy Bob Orton.

The tag-team breaking up and feuding has been done over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It gets less effective every single time.

 

[The BoogeyMan]

Matt Hardy's cast which he used as a weapon last year was previously used by Owen Hart and Cowboy Bob Orton.

Ah yes ofcourse! Didn't they do this with Undertaker when he fueded with Lesnar as well?

 

[.John.]

I think it doesn't matter if Swagger uses the ankle lock... It's a move that he's trying to call his own... It's hardly a crime.

 

[Thumbinthebum]

Ah yes ofcourse! Didn't they do this with Undertaker when he fueded with Lesnar as well?

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that one. There was Big Show vs JBL too.

 

[21 - 1]

Who really cares if Wrestler A uses Wrestler B's move?

In the case of an ankle lock, a move so simple that an embryo could pull it off, it's pretty stupid to say that Kurt is in any way the 'master' of the move. He popularised it, sure, but it's not like the move shouldn't be used by another guy just because he does.

 

[Thumbinthebum]

Who really cares if Wrestler A uses Wrestler B's move?

In the case of an ankle lock, a move so simple that an embryo could pull it off, it's pretty stupid to say that Kurt is in any way the 'master' of the move. He popularised it, sure, but it's not like the move shouldn't be used by another guy just because he does.

Tell that to Batista :lmao His version was more like an ankle hug.

And again, the problem isn't using the ankle lock as such, afterall, nobody would acuse Evan Bourne of copying Angle if he used it. It's the fact that Swagger already has some superficial similarities and by taking that move, crosses the line into parody

 

[dxbender]

Who invented the moonsault because as of late, so many people are using it yet we don't see anyone be like "____ stole the moonsault move from __"


Don't get why people complain about this stuff.

NHL players do similar dekes but you dont see people complain about the dekes being close to the same. There's lots of different pitches for a baseball pitcher to use, if one guy knows fastball,curve,slider,change. Nobody complains he has the same pitches as another guy.

So wrestling is basically the same thing, as long as the wrestlers don't start having the same promos as other people(like you don't hear Cena be like "if you smell, what john cena is cooking" or something like that, then no need to complain that ___ is stealing something from someone else

 

[just1988]

As in the real world, it is very rare that something new be invented, so I have no problem with people copying other peoples stuff. It's only natural.

 

[Jerichaholic4life]

I agree, things get recycled all the time, it doesn't bother me, to an extent.

In regards to the whole Swagger thing, I honestly don't see what the whole fuss is about. Sure Swagger isn't as good as Kurt and even though i'm nowhere near a Swagger fan, his in ring work is still fantastic. He even maybe doing it as a little tribute to Kurt.

Even if he isn't doing it as a tribute So what? The ankle lock isn't Angle's and it never was, Swagger never stole anything. You see wrestlers around the World use the Boston crab submission, did they steal that off Jericho? Of course they didn't. Stop moaning about Swagger using the ankle lock, it's a wrestling submission that can be widely used, like any other submission, get over it.