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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It seems a fairly quiet day on here so I thought I'd post this. I'm all for tolerance and everybody believe what you want, but surely they knew what the rules were before entering the Olympics? I've watched a few judo matches, and the grabbing of clothing appears to be constant and essential. Look at the state of their jackets and belts after each tussle, and this girl's (she's 16) father wants her to add extra material for her opponent to get hold of?

I'd also like to know how she feels about it, rather than just what her father says. Also, what should she do if it gets pulled off completely during a tussle?

From the BBC website:

The father of a female Saudi Arabian judo competitor says his daughter will pull out of the Olympics if she is not allowed to wear her hijab during bouts.

Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shaherkani, 16, is due to compete in the +78kg category on Friday.

A Saudi official said earlier this month that its female athletes would have to obey Islamic dress codes.

But International Judo Federation president Marius Vizer said she would have to fight without the headscarf.

The sport has banned the headscarf for safety reasons and Vizer said last week: "The athlete from Saudi Arabia will fight in the spirit of judo and according to the principles of judo without a hijab".

Her father Ali told Saudi Arabia's al-Watan newspaper that his daughter "will not compete in the Judo Games on 3 August if the committee insists that she removes her hijab".

Olympic and Saudi officials are in talks with judo chiefs in order to find a solution but Mr Shaherkani told the newspaper he had not heard back from the International Olympic Committee on the matter.

Shaherkani and 800m runner Sarah Attar are Saudi Arabia's two female competitors.

There is almost no public tradition of women participating in sport in Saudi Arabia, and officials have found it difficult to find athletes who could meet the minimum qualifying standards.
 

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Like God actually cares about women wearing a particular headscarf. The damage religion does to peoples intellect is astounding.
Yes bash people's religious beliefs why don't you :no:.

Really and truly they should have known the deal before they entered. Surely the coach or someone must have told the family she wouldn't be allowed to wear the headscarf. Not to mention it could just as easily come off during bout.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The damage religion does to peoples intellect is astounding.
I agree, though I'm thinking more about the practical application of it.

Let's say they allow her to compete while wearing it, and in her very first lock-up/tussle (whatever they call it in judo) her opponent grabs it and pulls it off. Does she have to stop fighting and replace it?

To finish the tussle and then replace it before starting the next one, as they do with their belts when they come loose etc, would kinda defeat the whole fucking point of wearing it in the first place.
 

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I agree, though I'm thinking more about the practical application of it.

Let's say they allow her to compete while wearing it, and in her very first lock-up/tussle (whatever they call it in judo) her opponent grabs it and pulls it off. Does she have to stop fighting and replace it?

To finish the tussle and then replace it before starting the next one, as they do with their belts when they come loose etc, would kinda defeat the whole fucking point of wearing it in the first place.
No it doesn't. The point of wearing it is to honor God. If it gets pulled off it gets pulled off, the point is that she was wearing it in the first place, that's all that really matters.
 

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No it doesn't. The point of wearing it is to honor God. If it gets pulled off it gets pulled off, the point is that she was wearing it in the first place, that's all that really matters.
More or less this but at the same time from a practical point of view wearing it in the event would just cause too much hassle. Not to mention if it comes off they can't do it right then and there in the arena since men are not supposed to see. So im assuming they would have to take her backstage and such to put it back on or risk a lot of backlash.

Religiously Im on board but practically it's just never gonna work. Also as mentioned before the family really should have known this before she was flown all the way out here.
 

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If I were her opponent I would be happy about this and I would use it to my advantage. I don't think religion makes people crazy and/or stupid, it just attracts crazy and/or stupid. By the way, Saudi Arabia is legendary for its craziness and its stupidity.
 

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At Olympic level, I don't think they should relax the ban on it. I'm a tolerant person as well, but at the highest level of sports, everyone has to be on an even playing field, so to speak. Having a headscarf on, in my opinion, distorts that even playing field somewhat. It doesn't even mean she has a particular advantage or disadvantage, it just means that the actual mechanisms of the judo bout will differ.

Like Anark said, what if it gets pulled off and they have to reset? Or if it just gets pulled off and throws the other person off of their game slightly?

I have no idea how judo works to be painfully honest, but that's just my opinion on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No it doesn't. The point of wearing it is to honor God. If it gets pulled off it gets pulled off, the point is that she was wearing it in the first place, that's all that really matters.
Interesting point. Would their faith not allow for the fact that wearing it gives her opponent an possible advantage as the hijab might be pulled down over her face quite easily (I assume)?

If I were her opponent I would be happy about this and I would use it to my advantage. I don't think religion makes people crazy and/or stupid, it just attracts crazy and/or stupid. By the way, Saudi Arabia is legendary for its craziness and its stupidity.
Yeah, and so does sports and other things. Biased team supporting can make someone blind to facts as well.

I should add that I've met some highly intelligent people who were into religion in some way or another. I understand faith and why people have it, though I think that the stupid do make more of a noise than the intelligent ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have no idea how judo works to be painfully honest, but that's just my opinion on this.
The clips from 30 seconds on show situations I think a hijab might actually be quite dangerous to wear:


The video above is quite an action-packed highlights reel, and a lot of judo bouts contain a lot of boring holding and manoeuvring body parts into position, but usually after some kind of lock-up where they are grabbing each other's clothing.
 

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At Olympic level, I don't think they should relax the ban on it. I'm a tolerant person as well, but at the highest level of sports, everyone has to be on an even playing field, so to speak. Having a headscarf on, in my opinion, distorts that even playing field somewhat. It doesn't even mean she has a particular advantage or disadvantage, it just means that the actual mechanisms of the judo bout will differ.

Like Anark said, what if it gets pulled off and they have to reset? Or if it just gets pulled off and throws the other person off of their game slightly?

I have no idea how judo works to be painfully honest, but that's just my opinion on this.
This, this, this.

I personally think it's stupid to 'have' to wear certain things based on your beliefs, but you should still have the freedom to do it. In this context though, rules need to be adhered to rather than modified.

I'm also completely clueless about judo, but I'd imagine having to compensate for this kind of thing would completely throw off her opponent for what they've spent so long training for. It's also just not safe in such a physical sport to wear things like this.
 

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while competing in the sport you should honour the sports traditions more than your religious duties while competing, for example some muslim athletes will delay fasting till after the olympics. Some muslim footballers do the same for example ozil, benzema, khedira, and nasri
 

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This, this, this.

I personally think it's stupid to 'have' to wear certain things based on your beliefs, but you should still have the freedom to do it. In this context though, rules need to be adhered to rather than modified.

I'm also completely clueless about judo, but I'd imagine having to compensate for this kind of thing would completely throw off her opponent for what they've spent so long training for. It's also just not safe in such a physical sport to wear things like this.
I'm a judo black belt. Judo has some strikes involved, but the more important parts of this martial art are throws and chokeholds. With throws, you are going to sometimes use the opponent's garment to draw them to you and gain an advantage. Chokes are pretty much self-explanatory. The danger for her is more from the chokes wearing the hijab then the throws, as you are already potentially cutting off blood flow that much easier.

There are also more chokes where you also use the clothing to help you out, to gain a grip on the opponents neck area.

Here's a video that will explain how the chokes work.


Personally, I'd let her wear the hijab, but let her and her family know that the Olympics themselves, plus any judo association helping out, are not responsible for what happens. And, if I was competing against someone wearing a hijab, I'd use that to my full advantage. All's fair in this competition, and if she is going to wear it then she has to be ready for the potential consequences. It's no different than wrestling a girl, if she is aware of the risks then do your thing.
 

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Would like to actually hear what she has to say about the issue and not her father. I respect their culture and religion, but why would you even get into a sport when you know there might be objections to wearing a head scarf. I have never watched Judo matches in my life and I know that a head scarf might cause issues.

Also why is the Saudi government allowing female athletes into sports where such issues may arise? Don't understand it at all. It is like they just tease their women with equality and then make an issue just to take it away from them. Just don't allow women to compete in these events if you are going to be so strict about dress codes.
 

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As we can see, it's the father of the Saudi women speaking for her. She doesn't even have the option to speak for herself. That being said, they shouldn't ease up on the ban. If they still insist on her wearing the garment, then she won't compete.
 

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In my opinion, rules should be rules for everyone. Whilst wearing the scarf may not be advantageous to her, it could be distracting to the opponent. Also I think this could set a worrying precedent, if it is allowed to be worn here then by law it should be allowed everywhere and in every sport. There may even be occasions where it could cause problems. If it was that much of an issue it should have been brought up long before now. Again, rules should be rules for everyone.
 
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