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Both are very talented, but I always felt that Ortiz has this strange charisma about him. He can possibly be a breakout star.
 

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Yeah, they did 3 different tag team angles with Jericho instead of pushing the factions actual tag team. Was a head scratcher.
Super weird, but lucky Jericho got to tell his story right . They came in super hot attacking The Bucks and The Lucha Bros. Then loss The Bucks feud, then it's been downhill. Though the parking lot brawl was dope.
 

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yeh i am on board with that - maybe lose a match to the bucks with shenanigans, then win the title in a subsequent match
 

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They should've been tag champs by now IC has hurt them more than helped.
no way - the title isn’t a hot potato

earlier would‘ve been too early - now when they win it, it’ll be as fan fav faces

i think you lads sometimes forget how cold their debut was and how much they had to be built - they only started hitting their stride from the street fight onwards
 

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no way - the title isn’t a hot potato
This obsession over long title reigns makes little sense. Long reign doesn't equal good. What matters with titles is story told.

earlier would‘ve been too early - now when they win it, it’ll be as fan fav faces

i think you lads sometimes forget how cold their debut was and how much they had to be built - they only started hitting their stride from the street fight onwards
Got a good pop when they debuted and got a good heel reactions in the Bucks feud. I think you forgot how effective they were because they were dragged down with Jericho for so long and without their own story



That's not the reaction of a cold team
 

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This obsession over long title reigns makes little sense. Long reign doesn't equal good. What matters with titles is story told.



Got a good pop when they debuted and got a good heel reactions in the Bucks feud. I think you forgot how effective they were because they were dragged down with Jericho for so long and without their own story



That's not the reaction of a cold team
disagree - if you compare to where they are now its leagues of difference

they’ve also gone from ‘generic latin heel team’ to people with real personalities and fan favs

you’ll see i’m right when they win it with a full crowd behind them
 

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disagree - if you compare to where they are now its leagues of difference

they’ve also gone from ‘generic latin heel team’ to people with real personalities and fan favs

you’ll see i’m right when they win it with a full crowd behind them
Disagree with what them getting pops?

Also the leagues of difference makes no sense. This could've happened earlier if they weren't taking a back seat with Jericho. If instead of being attached to Jericho they were solo and allowed to talk they get over even more on their own and have have their own stories, they get even more over quicker.
 

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Disagree with what them getting pops?

Also the leagues of difference makes no sense. This could've happened earlier if they weren't taking a back seat with Jericho. If instead of being attached to Jericho they were solo and allowed to talk they get over even more on their own and have have their own stories, they get even more over quicker.
no, they got some pops - but were hardly ‘over’

before aew, i guess only 10% has seen them wrestle - i’ve never seen a match before aew

but now they are over / and Jericho helped a lot with that. The IC never held them back, they only benefitted
 

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no, they got some pops - but were hardly ‘over’

before aew, i guess only 10% has seen them wrestle - i’ve never seen a match before aew

but now they are over / and Jericho helped a lot with that. The IC never held them back, they only benefitted
Bull shit again look at those then justify not being over. Before AEW only 10% new them, but they got a huge debut reaction.

Being with Jericho has benefitted them by rarely having tag shit to do as the majority of the time they're playing soldiers. Since debuting they've had 2 tag feuds that were about them having personal bee, the Bucks feud and against The Best Friends.
 

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Bull shit again look at those then justify not being over. Before AEW only 10% new them, but they got a huge debut reaction.

Being with Jericho has benefitted them by rarely having tag shit to do as the majority of the time they're playing soldiers. Since debuting they've had 2 tag feuds that were about them having personal bee, the Bucks feud and against The Best Friends.
do you think if you ask them if the IC helped or hindered them - what will they answer?

also - i’m thinking 10% is generous
 

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do you think if you ask them if the IC helped or hindered them - what will they answer?

also - i’m thinking 10% is generous
The safe "it was great" similar to how Jericho and Dustin were "fuck you WWE is great and you fans are over analyzing" until they left and gave true feelings.

If you asked them privately off the record if they thought they've been used perfectly as a tag team, you're full of it if you think they'd say yeah.

As far as 10% surely you have these examples of them not getting reactions as heels. Because I've shown them getting reactions on a debut and for being heels. You've done nothing to back up they were cold prior to the Best Friends feud
 
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