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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

Vince McMahon definitely filtered Russo. All you have to do is look at how god awful WCW was when Vince Russo was writing for them without his filter. I'm not saying he killed WCW, because he didn't. It was killed by a multitude of things: backstage politics, money problems, network executives, etc. But you can't deny that when he was there that the show was awful. It was awful before...yeah, then he just made it 100X worse.

There was no reason to try and undermine Paul Heyman and Jim Cornette just so you can build up Russo. That was unneccessary. Plus, Paul Heyman is a much better writer and booker than Russo ever was. What has he ever done, became one of the most influential people in wrestling of the 90's. He created ECW, a company whose edgy and violent program (that I wasn't really a fan of) bascially kickstarted the same edginess and violence that you would see in WWE later on in the decade. That's a lot of impact right there. Not to mention the fact that Paul Heyman was head writer for Smackdown for 2002/2003. That show was great, and it showed his versatility. He was able to be write great television in 2 different eras (not all that different in terms of substance, but it remains true regardless). Cornette's overrated in my opinion. Listenting to him rant is fun and all, but I don't see the big deal about him. Still, you don't need to criticize him in an attempt to build Russo.

If Raw had competition nowadays and were making these ratings it's a guarantee that they would get shut down. That's the thing, they have no actual competition. That, and they don't just depend on ratings. The WWE has gone global, and the company has become a cash cow. Those are the big reasons they are still here right now.

Russo does get a lot more shit that he deserves, but a lot of it is warranted. Whether you like it or not, he's doen a lot of shit to wrestling over the years, and I do believe he was a bigger cancer in WCW that some give him credit for. Plus, didn't he call wrestling fake on live TV once? The guy gets all of the credit he deserves for his part in the creation of the Attitude Era, but so does Vince McMahon for filtering out all the crap that he suggested. It still doesn't change the fact that the stupid shit he's done over the years outweighs the good he's done.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

The weeks preceding Russo:
10/11/99 2.6(3.6,2.2,2.0)
10/4/99 2.9(3.6,2.4,2.6)
9/27/99 3.0(4.1,2.4,2.6)

The weeks after Russo arrives:

11/08/99 3.3(4.0,3.1,2.8)
11/01/99 3.2(3.9,3.0,2.7)
10/25/99 3.25(4.0,3.3,3.2)
10/18/99 3.3(3.8,3.1,3.0)

Of course, while it is an obvious boost in the short term, a successful writer is measured over a long period. Take a look at Russo's ratings from when he took over as the sole head writer of Raw if you want to see how good he is when he has sole control. As I said earlier, it went from regular 2.0-2.5's, to regular 6.0-8.0's .. just google "Raw ratings history" and check it out for yourself.

He didn't have full control in the year 2000 with WCW, and he also only had sole control in TNA for about a year, during 2009. Unsurprisingly, TNA did it's best average rating in it's history in that year :). Before that he was accompanied by Dutch Mantell and Jim Cornette, and after that from 2010-onwards he was on a writing committee with the likes of Bischoff and Hogan.

Give Russo control of a wrestling company for 2 years without any outside factors and watch the ratings explode and the product become fun again.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

What about the long-term for WCW? Just curious to see that.
He never had a long-term as sole writer for WCW. He was only the head writer for 4 months, in which he boosted the ratings a couple of points.

While he was "head writer" in 2000, it was as part of a larger writing committee, and as such his ideas were of course "filtered"
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

I've seen this done so many times online I could write WashingtonD's next five posts.

While he was "head writer" in 2000, it was as part of a larger writing committee, and as such his ideas were of course "filtered"
Like money ideas like Roddy Piper calling Rhonda Singh fat. Ah the old Standards and Practices excuse.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

Russo became head writer of TNA in July 2009. During the second half of 2009, i.e. the part where he was head writer, the ratings dropped. Not by much though, because this is TNA and the ratings constantly stay between 1.0 to 1.3, but to credit him for the increase of TNA's ratings in 2009 would be incorrect.

Also, before he left TNA the ratings weren't "doing well" (I put this in quotation because, once again, TNA's ratings stay between 1.0 and 1.3 and vary for numerous reasons). The ratings went slightly under a 1 in April, but came back up in May. Then they moved their timeslot and the ratings have been down ever since. This is what is most likely the cause in the decrease of ratings. Bobby Roode could have also been another reason, and Aces and Eights being a mediocre storyline could be a third reason.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

Russo helped the AE, no doubt about it. Most successful ever.......debateable. I've no opinion on it.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

Best and most successful writer are two different things. IMO, the best writer was Heyman. Most successful, might be Russo I don't know.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

- After removing Cornette from the writing team and become the head writer of Raw, the show went from 2.5 to regular 6.0's, even reaching 8.0's on some ocassions. WWE went from almost filing for bankruptcy to having the most successful period of any wrestling company in history. That change, and the whole "Attitude" aspect, was instigated by Vince Russo. Ditched the long matches in favour of 2 minute matches, with ample amounts of run-ins, promos, skits and angles. Helped develop characters like The Rock, Austin, DX and Ministry-era Undertaker.
I hate this ratings "argument", you know what a 6 or 5 means in Viewership numbers back then? 4.5 millions of persons, the difference between the Raw numbers in the attitude era and the numbers Raw was pulling since mid 2001 is just of one million. In fact, the first monday Impact and Raw were competing there was more people viewing wrestling than in any moment of the Monday Night Wars. This, without talking about the fact that the 2000 was the most succesful year in the Attitude era and Russo was gone by then.


Probably this is because today are more televisions than then, but yeah, numbers don't lie. Also the most successful business year on the history of the company is 2007, were was Vince Russo then? yeah, making a storyline with Kevin Nash like therapist of Kurt Angle

And Russo instigated shit. The attitude era was a rip-off from ECW, and ECW were a mix from FMW in Japan and the success from the Jrs in NJPW and AAA. At the same time, the Austin gimmick was showing his origins there and DX were a knock Off of the NWO. The only one of your examples really valid is The Rock

- After joining WCW, took Nitro from 2.5 to a 3.5 in the short space of a couple of months. Match lengths were cut short, skits and promos were increased and viewers started to pick up. Gave the people what they wanted.. drama, not pointless technical bouts.
And then, he wasn't able of finish no one of the storylines. Face the true man, Russo is able of begin and seattle stories, but then he convoluted everything until the point no finish make sense, therefore the ratings began to fall again

- During his second run in WCW, ratings began to fall as he was part of a writing committee of around 8-10 guys, instead of just 1 head writer like during his late '99 run - as such, he had less creative input and so we didn't get to see Russo's vision come to fruition.
LOL, so if Vince Russo said there was a Booking comitee is the true, even if it was state several times that he was the head booker and he was under complete control of creative. Yeah complete unbiased...

- In 2009, Impact under Russo averaged around 1.1-1.2 , now regularly doing 0.8-0.9 under Bischoff/Hogan/Lagana and whoever else they have on board.
Yeah and for not booking a proper final for his MEM history the ratings began to fall of the roof. Also you're talking about the same person who was fired from the same company in 2004

Now, what has Jim Cornette done? What has Paul Heyman done? These guys are the patron saints of the majority of the IWC, yet neither of these guys has made 1/10th, probably not 1/50th as much money as Russo made for Vince Mcmahon. People like the Russo style. Why do you think TNA is 100 x more succesful than ROH? Because people want to see the "attitude" style, which TNA retains, not the pointless and boring ROH style.
Lol, so you are not counting the territories era because is boring and unsuccessful, even if all the feuds from the Attitue era follows the same format?.

You know who bring people like Mysterio or Guerrero to the states? Heyman. Who let people like Austin, Foley or Pillman to talk and begin with this "edgy" overrated thing? Heyman.

Stars who have worked with Russo and praised his work: Jeff Jarrett, Booker T, Scott Steiner, The Rock, James Storm, Bobby Roode, AJ Styles, Velvet Sky. Probably countless more, but he isn't a name that comes up often in wrestler shoots. Oh, and even JR praised him on Twitter, saying he deserved credit for the part he played in the Attitude Era.
By the same criteria you're using in the entire OP, all this people outside The Rock are nobodies no? who of them was Pulling 7 and 8 in ratings? you need to be less unbiased and coherent if you wanna plug a real defense

People who have dissed Russo: Jim Cornette (Lost his job twice in favour of Vince Russo), Dutch Mantell (lost his job to Russo), Eric Bischoff (Russo embarassed him and Hogan publicly at Bash at the Beach) and a bunch of smark fools like Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer who just want wrestling to be what it was like in the 70's and 80's
Again you need to be less unbiased. You're not counting people like Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero (who was making the greatest ratings of SD history in a feud whit Rey Mysterio in 2005), Jericho, Flair or Bret among others
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

Russo was full of ideas. Some good, some bad. McMahon was the filter. In my opinion McMahon and co of the Golden Era is still the greatest writing and booking team of all time.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

The question I have about Russo is this:

How is it fucking possible for this cunt to have been both the BEST and, later in his career, the WORST writer in Wrestling history? That's a special kind of person right there.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

while reading all of this, I came to the conclusion that russo is only the greatest writer with mcmahon as a filter. So that means he sucks as a writer solely but in combination with a filter, he is part of the greatest wrestling writing team

:vince
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

The weeks preceding Russo:
10/11/99 2.6(3.6,2.2,2.0)
10/4/99 2.9(3.6,2.4,2.6)
9/27/99 3.0(4.1,2.4,2.6)

The weeks after Russo arrives:

11/08/99 3.3(4.0,3.1,2.8)
11/01/99 3.2(3.9,3.0,2.7)
10/25/99 3.25(4.0,3.3,3.2)
10/18/99 3.3(3.8,3.1,3.0)

Of course, while it is an obvious boost in the short term, a successful writer is measured over a long period. Take a look at Russo's ratings from when he took over as the sole head writer of Raw if you want to see how good he is when he has sole control. As I said earlier, it went from regular 2.0-2.5's, to regular 6.0-8.0's .. just google "Raw ratings history" and check it out for yourself.

He didn't have full control in the year 2000 with WCW, and he also only had sole control in TNA for about a year, during 2009. Unsurprisingly, TNA did it's best average rating in it's history in that year :). Before that he was accompanied by Dutch Mantell and Jim Cornette, and after that from 2010-onwards he was on a writing committee with the likes of Bischoff and Hogan.

Give Russo control of a wrestling company for 2 years without any outside factors and watch the ratings explode and the product become fun again.

You failed to post or comment on the ratings for December 1999:

12/6/99 3.0
12/13/99 2.8
12/20/99 3.2
12/27/99 2.9

Or how and why the biggest PPV on the WCW (Starrcade 1999) pulled a 0.32 during a wrestling boom. The arena it was held in had approx. 8,000 tickets sold in a 18,000 capacity arena; in 1998 and 1997 it sold nearly twice as many tickets.

"Give Russo control of a wrestling company for 2 years without any outside factors and watch the ratings explode and the product become fun again."
There will always been outside factors. It December of 1999 the WWE started to suffer backlash from its sponsors/advertisers such as Mars, AT&T etc. That is partly why the content of shows was toned down as early as January 2000. Russo would have started to have restrictions place on him in WWF; in WCW he had many more restrictions, although they did become TV-14 when he jumped.
 

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Discussion Starter #137
Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

You failed to post or comment on the ratings for December 1999:

12/6/99 3.0
12/13/99 2.8
12/20/99 3.2
12/27/99 2.9

Or how and why the biggest PPV on the WCW (Starrcade 1999) pulled a 0.32 during a wrestling boom. The arena it was held in had approx. 8,000 tickets sold in a 18,000 capacity arena; in 1998 and 1997 it sold nearly twice as many tickets.
Word. The PPVs dropped badly for Russo's first three months.
 

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Re: Vince Russo is the best and most successful writer in the history of wrestling

They are full of shit and don't address all the shit they wrote. Some of it is true, most of it is garbage.

All these Russo marks ignore all the actual good arguments against Russo and only pounce on the small details, it's ridiculous.
 
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