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Discussion Starter #1
I'm actually the repeat of Raw right now and half way through and seeing as it's rare for me to sit through a whole Raw as i usually just skip through and watch the best bits it really struck me just how much Raw is suffering from not having one true standout heel. Now obviously i've noticed it before but it hasn't hit me as hard as it is right now as looking at John Cena, Triple H and CM Punk in comparison to Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger and The Miz it's so clear the roster is heavily lopsided.

Yes Brock Lesnar and Chris Jericho are around but then so is The Rock and The Undertaker sometimes as well so that kind of balances that one out again and puts the heavy advantage back in favor of the babyfaces. Obviously a simple solution that people will say is "turn John Cena heel" but with how much money he makes WWE that right now isn't an option nor is turning CM Punk when he is at the highest point he has ever been. The best times on Raw were when there was a clear standout heel such as Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Triple H, The New World Order, Edge and Randy Orton whilst Stone Cold Steve Austin had a short run and Chris Jericho has flirted with the role.

For a top babyface to really peak they need someone to play off of in a genuine standout top heel as we saw in feuds like Hogan/Andre, Sting/Flair, Savage/Flair, Sting/Hogan, Austin/Rock, Austin/Triple H, Rock/Triple H and most recently Cena/Edge and whilst the potential heels on the roster probably won't ever hit the heights the heels from back then did we'll never know unless they are tried. Had Brock Lesnar been signed to a full time schedule for a year everything probably would be fine with Chris Jericho in the main support role but neither are full time and it means no one is believable going up against the top babyfaces or draw extra interest.
 

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The problem is, whenever someone becomes a big heel, one of two things happen:

1. He gets liked by the IWC because of how good at being a heel he is, so eventually it becomes 'cool' to cheer him, a la CM Punk.

2. He gets built up and up and up and then gets squashed by John Cena.

When people learn that booing the heel they like will make WWE push them more, that's when we can have a big heel on RAW.
 

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Ex Con With A Heart Of Gold
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The company is suffering from at least 3+ years of what I've seen...

The heels lose too goddamned much. Like, how can there ever be any heat or interest in a match when you KNOW the heel is going to lose? Like with R Truth, Big Show, Ziggler against Punk and Sheamus. You know they won't win.

Why should a heel lose 80 percent of the time? A heel is pretty much FACE+CHEATING. In no other endeavor does the person who can cheat in 50+ ways lose 80 percent of the time to the person who can't cheat.

Backwards booking. And it leads to the silly booking of making the face lose on t.v. but win at PPVs and get beat down and look like THE UNDERDOG. How can Cena, Punk, Sheamus ever win?! Oh golly! The Drama and the Uncertainty!

8*D
 

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I have said this before, guys like HHH could make you hate him so much back in the day, yeah he took control of the show but it was gold. So was Kurt Angle.
 

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Hot Dreams!
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Good thread topic.


The key is to have one top heel having an extended feud with your rising babyface, and slowly elevate your mid tier heels to higher status until they're ready to transition to that top spot with the babyface. Stone Cold Steve Austin is a great example, when he won the belt, there was only one true main event heel and that was Shawn Michaels. Forced to submit to injury, Shawn left and Steve was left alone at the very top. You could tell that the WWE were throwing the proverbial spaghetti to the wall to see what sticks when they gave Austin filler opponents like Dude Love and Kane (who were not fully established at the time) before throwing him into a program with a babyface Taker. What helped further Austin's story was the gradual progression of the McMahon heel character, and the tension that was progressing between he and Austin. At the time, Austin didn't need to be counter balanced by a crop of heels at his level, all he needed was a great storyline that put him in situations to stay over while lower tier guys (HHH and Rock)had their own individual storyarcs that helped them develope to a high enough level to believably pose a threat to Austin.

Cm Punk's title reign should be treated no differently. While they've done a fair job at slowly building guys to a believable status, these very guys are never fully allowed to floorish. When they're thrust into a main event program with the top stars, they almost always leave the feud looking worse than they started. It also doesn't help that the WWE are putting all their eggs in the same Cena basket, while relegating Punk to a cookie cutter title holder with no sense of progression beyond match wins. You're only as good as your opponent, if you're a heel and you're feuding with a champion that's basically playing second fiddle to the company's PR tool, then your feud will be nothing more than a footnote. if you're feuding with John Cena only to make him look good at your expense, then you become just another footnote. Point is, these guys have to seem like they belong, and they need to be fairly tested against babyfaces that are progressing at the right pace with the right storyline.

Structure the creative writing, give these guys an opportunity to sink or swim and you'll see alot of guys fall into place. Keep the product the way that it's structured now, and guys will never have the chance to get over and be credible heels.

The WWE tried hotshotting guys like ADR and Big Show into these position to fill the gap, the fans ultimately didn't buy and thus didn't get emotionally invested. It failed.
 

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I think the answer is Wade Barett.He is such a natural heel.I hope a stable is built around him.Something on lines of Evolution.It would benefit the entire Raw.
 

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WWE treats all their heels like midcarders. Whenever someone gets popular they turn him face to make more money, so now all of the tops stars are faces, while most of the midcard are heels. They need to turn some midcarders face and some main eventers heel.
 

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The problem is, whenever someone becomes a big heel, one of two things happen:

1. He gets liked by the IWC because of how good at being a heel he is, so eventually it becomes 'cool' to cheer him, a la CM Punk.

2. He gets built up and up and up and then gets squashed by John Cena.

When people learn that booing the heel they like will make WWE push them more, that's when we can have a big heel on RAW.
This is pretty much it, when a heel is so damn good at being a heel the casuals start cheering and eventually turned face, if Orton was still getting boo'd im sure he'd still be a heel of course Ortons face turn is a little deeper than that. It also doesnt help that most if not all up and coming heels get derailed by Cena.
 

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WWE treats all their heels like midcarders. Whenever someone gets popular they turn him face to make more money, so now all of the tops stars are faces, while most of the midcard are heels. They need to turn some midcarders face and some main eventers heel.
This. Exactly.

WWE as a whole is suffering from not having a top heel. I think they wanted to really push Tensai as the top heel of Raw but it's not working as well as they expected.
 

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Eating Doritos In My Mom's Basement. A Crawl Space
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The crazy thing is that its is painfully obvious that Raw is lacking heel characters, but it seems like they are hell bent on doing nothing about it. Another thing is that the heel characters don't do anything to make you hate them anymore. If WWE had Ziggler or Barrett, or Rhodes, or anyone just do something besides talk trash to the crowd they could be credible. And it's also little things, like when Barrett "threw" Orton down the stairs. Right after he did it there was a moment where he was like "fuck yeah, I threw him down the stairs," but then he like backed off and ran away like he made some kind of mistake. If he walked down the steps and talked trash to an incapacitated Orton, and had to be dragged away from his lifeless body he would look extremely hateable, but he had to flee the scene with Orton reanimating at the end of the scene. How many times is Cena gonna get hurt and end the scene by giving the crowd the thumbs up as he's carried away on a stretcher? It's small shit like that, that can go a long way. Make the kids that really believe that stuff feel hopeless, make them feel like their guy really doesn't have a shot, then you not only make credible heels, but you also create real life underdogs. You see this shit in movies all the time. If anyone seriously believes Batman, Spiderman, the Avengers, etc... are actually going to lose the war then they're crazy, but the good superhero movies always present a moment where their seems like the main character really is hopeless. A good example is the anti-hero role Michael Fassbender played as Magneto in the last X-Men movie. Everyone knows Xavier ends up in the wheel chair, and Magneto ends up being a bad guy, but Kevin Bacon's character did shit that made you happy as fuck when Magneto put the Nazi coin through his head, even though you already knew he was going to die.
 

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The problem is, whenever someone becomes a big heel, one of two things happen:

1. He gets liked by the IWC because of how good at being a heel he is, so eventually it becomes 'cool' to cheer him, a la CM Punk.

2. He gets built up and up and up and then gets squashed by John Cena.

When people learn that booing the heel they like will make WWE push them more, that's when we can have a big heel on RAW.
this. Was going to say it as well. I like Cena, but it's like whenever Creative is out of ideas, it's "Feed Cena More...Heels!" stupid.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think the answer is Wade Barett.He is such a natural heel.I hope a stable is built around him.Something on lines of Evolution.It would benefit the entire Raw.
Now to anyone who understands how a great uber heel should look and act then yes Wade Barrett is potentially the answer until you come to things like,

1. WWE has booked him so weakly he has gone backwards every year since debuting in mid 2010 as part of The Nexus.

2. He hasn't even been a WWE/World champion yet so wouldn't be believable in the eyes of many in having a stable protect his WWE/World title at all cosrs as Evolution did with Triple H who i believe was a five time WWE champion before Evolution began.

3. As great as Wade Barrett is on the mic and whilst drawing great heat and basically having the perfect uber heel look he isn't as good in the ring as Triple H now let alone Triple H from mid 1999 to mid 2001 when he was at his peak or even mid 2002 to mid 2006 when he was last heel.

4. Who is there to help Wade Barrett in this stable because outside of Brock Lesnar when he's around and Chris Jericho when booked really strong every heel on the WWE roster is basically in the same spot so why would they then sacrifice where they are to help someone else who isn't any higher.

Maybe i'm looking into all of that too much but for me a standout main event uber heel needs have all of the above things which Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, The Rock, Triple H, Edge and Randy Orton all have or had during their run as the standout top heel. For me potentially short term and long term no one has a better shot at being that next mega heel than Wade Barrett because he is only lacking great in ring skills from being a major long term uber heel but he won't gain them until WWE pushes him in the main event scene as he won't work longer matches until then nor work with the best in ring workers or storytellers.
 

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They are at a point where it's too hard to build up Credible Heels. As the years went buy and they were building up no stars, all there current stars were leaving, HHH, Edge, Batista, Shawn, Undertaker, Jericho etc. They all left and they never put anyone over. Now in the current state of the WWE, you have 2 Top Faces, Cena and Punk(Very Arguable). Well in Cena's case, it's blasphemy to put any new, young stars over him, and in Punk's case, he's still an Upper Midcarder that really hasn't broken the Glass Ceiling. Look at all these guys Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, ADR, Miz etc. They all have undeveloped pushes because none of the "Old Guard" Put Over the "New Guard". Imagine if A Face Triple H Put Over Dolph Ziggler in a great feud, well none of this ever happened and now they are at a point where they have no one to put over the new guys except Cena and Putting anyone over Cena is blasphemy. And now they have resorted to the state of mind where they think jobber matches are enough to Put someone over, well they aren't.

I've written enough.
 

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One standout heel is suspended in Jericho. The other standout heel was big Johnny and he's gone now. The only one left Raw has is Cole
 

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Respect My Pimphand..
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It's already been mentioned but the BIGGEST issue, is that none of the old era has put over the new era! It fucking ridiculous to be honest. They should be bringing in Shawn Michaels to put over Bryan at Mania, HHH should actually put over some wrestlers for once to make them actually worthy, Cena should be putting over people instead of beating EVERYONE since mania, and when Orton returns he should be putting over people as well. These things need to happen for wwe to be successful. Call up Ambrose and have Foley put him over in a long 3 month BACK AND FORTH hardcore battle. Call up Kassius Ohno and have him knock out Big Show and feud with him, whilst going over in the end. Let Bray Wyatt work with rey mysterio and rey put him over. Call up the Ascension and let them work with the New Age Outlaws and be put over after a 3 month feud. Let Ryback meet Lesnar at next years Summerslam and go over.

All these things will solve the current roster and make plenty of opportunities for new heels.
 

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One standout heel is suspended in Jericho. The other standout heel was big Johnny and he's gone now. The only one left Raw has is Cole
Jericho has not been a great heel for a long time now.Jericho couldn't even get the reaction Big Show is now getting.

WWE has no Great heels now
 

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It's already been mentioned but the BIGGEST issue, is that none of the old era has put over the new era! It fucking ridiculous to be honest. They should be bringing in Shawn Michaels to put over Bryan at Mania, HHH should actually put over some wrestlers for once to make them actually worthy, Cena should be putting over people instead of beating EVERYONE since mania, and when Orton returns he should be putting over people as well. These things need to happen for wwe to be successful. Call up Ambrose and have Foley put him over in a long 3 month BACK AND FORTH hardcore battle. Call up Kassius Ohno and have him knock out Big Show and feud with him, whilst going over in the end. Let Bray Wyatt work with rey mysterio and rey put him over. Call up the Ascension and let them work with the New Age Outlaws and be put over after a 3 month feud. Let Ryback meet Lesnar at next years Summerslam and go over.

All these things will solve the current roster and make plenty of opportunities for new heels.
Good point. I thought it was funny how the only person Cena put over was the Rock at Mania.... Yup a guy who will not appear on WWE until the next Mania is one month away.:no:
 
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