[Asmodeus]

The storylines are nonexistent right now, we have been given no reason to invest in the performers. But this is really an "Chicken or the Egg?" thing. A problem I've seen, and the most egregious example I've noticed was in an Ambrose match when the crowd wouldn't pop for shit until he did a suicide dive. Does a wrestler need to kill himself nowadays until we're impressed? If it was up to me there would be NO suicide dive unless it was on multiple people to catch the active person.

It's sad to me that that's where we're were at, so very little counts as impressive.

I'm still gonna put some of that on the fans. Look at how many online-fans complained about Charlotte's terrible position when she fucked up a figure 8 against Paige. Turns out, that was storyline.

I think creative is responsible so far as they give fans no reason to be confident or invested in a storyline that could be dropped the next day, but people who supposedly love wrestling can ruin it for themselves by second-guessing everything, instead of seeing what will happen.

ETA: I'm always asking myself, "Is this a thing? Does it matter?" I know the ball is not only dropped, but thrown over the fence and forgot about, but sometimes it IS a thing. I think we're too willing to jump the gun on shit and essentially ruin the shit for ourselves.

 

[Arkham258]

The problem is the fans, who keeping feeding money into Vince's pockets no matter how much the product sucks

Yes, it's the fans fault. And they are getting everything they deserve from this company and this product. If you have low standards and don't expect better in life, then you shouldn't receive it.

 

[Q-MAN]

I feel like complaining is the only sane thing to do anymore, even then it not the healthiest method. Fans don't want what they deserve and creative writes shit that is a bad as Bay M Night and Lucas during the prequels.

 

[Arkham258]

People always say the product sucks because Vince doesn't have competition. Well when Vince had competition he was afraid of losing consumers and fans to WCW. And he did things that made WWE fantastic and ridiculously successful once his survival instinct kicked in. And it was called the Attitude Era

So guess what would happen if fans en masse cancelled the WWE Network (there's plenty of easy ways to find NXT online) and stopped buying tickets and ratings got lower than TNA?

Yeah, I give Vince a lot of shit, but fuck the fans too. And here's me going heel, but I blame them for enabling Vince to continue being the shitty promoter and head of WWE that he currently is.

There's no doubt in my mind 90% of people complaining about WWE on blogs, podcasts or forums like this have a network subscription.

 

[Asmodeus]

A thing I think could be handled differently is keeping kayfabe. When an obvious thing is obvious outside kayfabe, it should be acknowledged. I'm thinking of the Lana/Rusev thing. You can't tell me that just happened overnight, so the ridiculous shit written for them ruined Rusev, for now. I cannot be convinced that there was no way to kayfabe them together and still make good matches. Stupid shit like that goes down and it's no wonder we can't get into anything they try and put over.

 

[lectoryo]

If the fans would stop letting Vince and his shitty ass employee's shit all over their faces and lick it clean, things would change. People support Roman Reigns. Still can't fathom that one. People here go ape shit over Rollins, Ambrose, Owens, and Thwagger...4 of the WORST fucking talents to main event a wrestling company ever. Ever ever. Aside from JJ. In fact, they're so bad, I'm convinced now that it's not even an opinion thing. They're just awful. It's like watching TNA with guys WWE couldn't give a fuck about...except somehow it's an alternate reality which sucks even more. It's really incredible how awful someone can make such a popular company in a few short years.

 

[MarkovKane]

I watch, and like a normal person I get mad and happy, but I supported WWE for long time, there was enough to be happy about, that I didn't care about small stupid things. When it became "more stupid things" over things I liked, it was when I was like "this is boring", "this is stupid", and "why do I watch this", 6 months of it, and I'm packing my bags to Boyle Heights and Tokyo.

Piece by piece, WWE just slowly fucked me over. Anytime I invested in a person, they would get ass raped like rag dolls by WWE and its system (Rusev, Rollins, Cesaro, Neville, Ryback, Rose, Kalisto/Sin Cara, etc.). WWE System = Either love Cena/Roman and no one else, or suffer the consequences of liking anyone else


Is it my fault for having standards, or is it creative's fault for not having standards. I know WWE will have corny sketches, I'm down with that, I liked Golddust and R-Truth, they are funny. I don't watch cause I want to laugh, but they are entertaining, and is helping both their careers.

 

[Asmodeus]

If the fans would stop letting Vince and his shitty ass employee's shit all over their faces and lick it clean, things would change. People support Roman Reigns. Still can't fathom that one.

TBH, I loved RR, but now it's a pity-support thing. I feel really sorry for the guy. He's been fucked by booking, by creative. The only thing he has control over - his performance in the ring, has improved enough to be impressive. If everyone was left to find their natural levels, he might not be HWC right now, but I think they'd still be plenty of people's eyes on him.

Two guys I don't like, and I KNOW it's not popular: CM Punk - he ran the fuck off - okay, fine, but why shit on everyone else when you do it? and Daniel Bryan. He knew his own concussion history and still did what, to me, is stupid shit in the ring to get over. I really hate that crap. For one thing, I wish the fans weren't lead to believe THAT'S what wrestling looks like. For another, he fucking injured himself selling that BS. If a dude is gonna pander on his twatter feed to get himself over, he should at least have the respect for his co-workers, if not his twatter fans, to contain himself enough that he's not out of the game in the first minute.

Problem is, the twitter's don't care, hell, as far as they know it's damn near like a counter culture to support a guy hawking shirts against a different guy who's also hawking shirts for the same company. They feel damn near rebellious.

Dbry encourages this, while he goes, "Aw, Shucks," and still had to come out and saying he's had enough injuries that his career will be over. I'm over the twatter bullshit. Congratulate who ever you want, I remain unimpressed.

 

[ka4life1]

I feel like creative and the WWE in general are just 2 steps behind the fans all the time.

Few examples are

The RKO outta nowhere videos where around for months before WWE even fault oh that seems to be catching on organically 'Lets put it on a T Shirt'
By the time they bought them out people had already gotten over it.

Trying to make Smackdown mean something again, That has been spoken about for years amongst fans.

Giving Heath Slater mic time has been spoken about since at least the weeks leading up to Raw 1000.

Making Reigns more of a bad ass has been discussed since the Rumble 2 years ago.



I understand injuries have not helped the creative side of things,

But the fans have been craving new main event stars for years and now WWE are having one of the worst injury spells in history and guys like Ziggler, Rusev, Ryback, and Sandow who could have all potentially been main eventers by now are left floundering in the mid/lower card, Because Cena and Co have been beating these guys and guys like them clean for the past 10 years.


Everything is just far to predictable and formulaic, Although the show is live every week, It might as well be recorded because you can tell everything is planned out weeks if not months in advance, Unless something unexpected happens like Seth's injury.

The main storylines have been the same for the last few years as well.

The Authority VS Either Cena,Bryan,Ziggler,Rowan,Ryback,Orton,Kane,Lesnar,Sting,Ambrose,and now Reigns.
They just keep switching the face but the actual storyline is the same, Nothing progresses.

The Divas revolution is still going to be the same When Nikki returns.

The tag division has kind of improved but is still a million miles from what it should be,
Cena having all those OK matches for the U.S title achieved nothing because he ended up dropping the belt to a guy who is already a known and not very popular commodity.

The I.C title has potential to mean something but neither Owens or Ambrose should be taking looses at this point in the game in my opinion.


The whole structure needs to change, Its just stale and everything feels jaded.
We need new blood and new ideas.

 

[insecure_demon]

creative:

the mid card is under utilized. my best examples are w/ stables

league of nations- its like they were just put together to have a group of heels that roman can fight. they aren't a crew of friends or group with an agenda. they just exist.

wyatt family- the rest of the family are just props for bray. harper should be going for the US or IC title and strowman and rowan should be tag champs.

in contrast

DX- triple h w/chyna won european and ic titles. xpac w/chyna won european title. new age outlaws won tag titles. they all had individual feuds as well as group feuds as well. you could have a night where NAO came out doing their thing and have a match. then xpac come out w/chyna later for a match. hhh could do the same. they could all then join together for a promo.

Fans:
dont invest in the product or are too negative.

crowd- they are really quiet. it might be the target audience being families now, but the crowd are boring as hell. the show loses the 'spectacle' feel. as an example. last weeks raw. lesnar comes out to a big pop. starts taking out new day, still cheers, takes out kevin owens and del rio. by the time sheamus gets some offense in against brock the crowd seemed bored unless someone is being suplexed.
there was a moment brock drags roman to the center of the ring. i was waiting for a 'suplex city' chant or something. but it was pretty quiet.

in contrast.......al snow got over with a mannequin head

iwc- too negative. specualtion and discussion is part of the fun of wrestling. but on forums its mostly bitching and moaning. its either that a character is being shoved down our throats or being used wrong. it seems impossible to please this crowd. even mostly positively received angles or moments dont last long before people turn on it. there is also too much focus on the title scene

 

[kamaro011]

I agree with Vince & Creative/Booking is the problem that plaguing WWE for years now, but never blame the roster ?

Eventhough, i dare to say it that the roster of this generation simply didn't cut out compared past generation in term mic-skills (promo and crowd abillity) and psychology/storytelling on the ring.

 

[Asmodeus]

I feel like creative and the WWE in general are just 2 steps behind the fans all the time.

Few examples are

The RKO outta nowhere videos where around for months before WWE even fault oh that seems to be catching on organically 'Lets put it on a T Shirt'
By the time they bought them out people had already gotten over it.

Trying to make Smackdown mean something again, That has been spoken about for years amongst fans.

Giving Heath Slater mic time has been spoken about since at least the weeks leading up to Raw 1000.

Making Reigns more of a bad ass has been discussed since the Rumble 2 years ago.



I understand injuries have not helped the creative side of things,

But the fans have been craving new main event stars for years and now WWE are having one of the worst injury spells in history and guys like Ziggler, Rusev, Ryback, and Sandow who could have all potentially been main eventers by now are left floundering in the mid/lower card, Because Cena and Co have been beating these guys and guys like them clean for the past 10 years.


Everything is just far to predictable and formulaic, Although the show is live every week, It might as well be recorded because you can tell everything is planned out weeks if not months in advance, Unless something unexpected happens like Seth's injury.

The main storylines have been the same for the last few years as well.

The Authority VS Either Cena,Bryan,Ziggler,Rowan,Ryback,Orton,Kane,Lesnar,Sting,Ambrose,and now Reigns.
They just keep switching the face but the actual storyline is the same, Nothing progresses.

The Divas revolution is still going to be the same When Nikki returns.

The tag division has kind of improved but is still a million miles from what it should be,
Cena having all those OK matches for the U.S title achieved nothing because he ended up dropping the belt to a guy who is already a known and not very popular commodity.

The I.C title has potential to mean something but neither Owens or Ambrose should be taking looses at this point in the game in my opinion.


The whole structure needs to change, Its just stale and everything feels jaded.
We need new blood and new ideas.

I don't think shit is planned in advance. To me, it seems like they go week to week, day to day. I think it's one of the problems. It's like the E is too scared to build up storylines, they don't want to invest in anyone unless it's a guy like Reigns who's so obviously a company man, and I'm not saying it as a criticism ,dude's got a family to feed, but I get the feeling they like to rotate bodies in and out without too many wrestlers being able to make a name for themselves.

 

[Drago]

Fans have no patience, Vince has no competition, Creative has no clue, Steph has no shame and me... I have no fucks to give.

 

[Asmodeus]

Fans have no patience, Vince has no competition, Creative has no clue, Steph has no shame and me... I have no fucks to give.

Everything else I get, and can see why, except creative. How is it not possible to tell a good wrestling story? I seriously don't understand. Why, ya know, just, WHY?

 

[Post-Modern Devil]

I agree with Vince & Creative/Booking is the problem that plaguing WWE for years now, but never blame the roster ?

Eventhough, i dare to say it that the roster of this generation simply didn't cut out compared past generation in term mic-skills (promo and crowd abillity) and psychology/storytelling on the ring.

Back when RAW was still two hours, something like this felt a lot more reasonable. Now with three hours and the Network I'm far less willing to tolerate management's laziness and apathy towards its roster whatever its flaws.

 

[Chief of the Lynch Mob]

Just to preface my comment, i can say that i don't actually have a network subscription and watch NXT and other things like that by other means, i watch PPVs at my friend's house, who actually does have a network subscription, but i myself don't and don't really plan on having one either, i don't see the point for me right now.

Anyway, i do understand your point, i think many of the crowds are exceptionally dull, it's frustrating to see some matches that just get no reactions whatsoever. There are some crowds are great, and i'm saying both casual and hardcore crowds, i.e the crowd on the last RAW i thought was casual, but very good, they got into everything that was happening and genuinely seemed to care, then you have the smarky crowds who make their voices heard, but that's the main thing, you can HEAR them. It really takes away from the experience when fans are sat on their hands while things are going on.

However at the same time, fans have to be given a reason to care, there are some things which fans just won't care about at all. Meaningless matches on RAW, bad storylines, repetitive segments etc. They barely care about stuff like Titus vs Stardust because there doesn't appear to be anything behind it barring the odd random backstage segment between the two which just seemed to be used for comedy and advertising purposes than anything else. They're getting it right with stories like Owens v Ambrose, an actual genuine heated rivalry with some great brawls and segments, and Charlotte and Becky, a clear cut face and heel storyline which people appear to be into, and the booking of it is so simple too.

2015 brought so few memorable main roster feuds. Reigns vs Wyatt, Rollins vs Ambrose and Taker vs Lesnar are the only ones which i really remember with any fondness, and the latter of the three was between two part timers, which just isn't good enough as far as i'm concerned because, while they are good to watch, it ultimately doesn't do anything for the future. Creative needs to get their shit into gear and sort out what they're doing otherwise Mania will be utterly doomed. Injuries are not helping i understand but the fact that there are so few wrestlers left who can appear to save the WWE from their crisis and be put into meaningful storylines is a real shame and the booking is the main reason for that.

 

[spikingspud]

WWE/Vince go by fan's popularity to choose who to focus on but here's the problem - having been pre-chosen off popularity that's when the problems kick in because Creative flutter around trying to come up with unique storyline angles only for the final drafts to be restructured by Vince.
Prime examples being SHIELD who were hugely over as a trio but as soon as they went solo then the favouritism kicked in and only the diehard fans could appreciate the end-results (which makes sense for those fans because their guy is in the spotlight getting the star treatment - what's not to like?) while neutrals built up an intolerance for the super-booking. Another more recent example is Slater who, after being voted to #8 at Slammys, Vince/Creative suddenly notice his existence and we get to see the debut of Social Outcasts and a rare Slater win over Ziggler!

 

[Asmodeus]

WWE/Vince go by fan's popularity to choose who to focus on but here's the problem - having been pre-chosen off popularity that's when the problems kick in because Creative flutter around trying to come up with unique storyline angles only for the final drafts to be restructured by Vince.
Prime examples being SHIELD who were hugely over as a trio but as soon as they went solo then the favouritism kicked in and only the diehard fans could appreciate the end-results (which makes sense for those fans because their guy is in the spotlight getting the star treatment - what's not to like?) while neutrals built up an intolerance for the super-booking. Another more recent example is Slater who, after being voted to #8 at Slammys, Vince/Creative suddenly notice his existence and we get to see the debut of Social Outcasts and a rare Slater win over Ziggler!

Honestly, I much as I like Roman, breaking up the Shield should have waited, and he should have been on his own much longer before he was pushed. I'm a fan, but I fear for the actual guy that portrays RR on TV. Of all the guys that get called "ruined," I think it's probably the most true for him.

 

[MarkovKane]

Fans have no patience, Vince has no competition, Creative has no clue, Steph has no shame and me... I have no fucks to give.

I think I have my new sig....

 

[Blade Runner]

The problem is the fans, who keeping feeding money into Vince's pockets no matter how much the product sucks

Yes, it's the fans fault. And they are getting everything they deserve from this company and this product. If you have low standards and don't expect better in life, then you shouldn't receive it.

Sadly, this is absolutely correct. At the end of the day, the people keeping the WWE finantially afloat in any way are responsible for the product sucking. The WWE could literally put on a 3 hour infomercial every week and they'd still be successful if they kept making money. The WWE would sure as hell be forced to change the product if people stopped supporting it because everything would collapse -- from sponsor support, shareholder support, merchandise affiliate support, television network support ect -- EVERY business depends on people feeding the machine. Why would the WWE force themselves to put effort in the writing when they can just wing it to it's lowest common denominator and fans will accept it anyway? It's not like they're passionate about this sh^t anymore

Hell, I was every bit as responsible for renewing my WWE Network subscription every month (which I just stopped doing recently) --