[joshman82]

there's been a ton of these kinds of threads...but...i think 95% of everyone here thinks he's one of the best of all time...many dont like him personally, but pretty much everyone gives him the in ring respect.

 

[Kratosx23]

As an in ring talent, he's fantastic. As an entertainer, he's absolutely worthless. I get no sense of enjoyment out of him on the mic at all, think he's massively overrated in that area and couldn't care less about him for that reason. No amount of ring talent justifies me liking somebody.

 

[P.Smith]

As an in ring talent, he's fantastic. As an entertainer, he's absolutely worthless. I couldn't care less about him for that reason.

So you're saying people can't be entertained by in ring talent? Sounds stupid.

In my opinion Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time, he is the greatest performer of all time, he isn't the best person ever on the stick but he can cut a great promo and he knows how to sell storylines perfectly, he's the best all rounder the WWE has ever had.

 

[sonicxtacy02]

So you're saying people can't be entertained by in ring talent? Sounds stupid.

In my opinion Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time, he is the greatest performer of all time, he isn't the best person ever on the stick but he can cut a great promo and he knows how to sell storylines perfectly, he's the best all rounder the WWE has ever had.

Diddo. I'll add to it that if you think of ALL the greats and their respective careers as a whole there just isn't anyone that compares to the career Shawn had. He came in young paid his dues made his mark and retired before his time. You have to respect him for that because their isn't another wrestler that comes to mind that did the same thing

 

[Kratosx23]

So you're saying people can't be entertained by in ring talent? Sounds stupid.

In my opinion Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time, he is the greatest performer of all time, he isn't the best person ever on the stick but he can cut a great promo and he knows how to sell storylines perfectly, he's the best all rounder the WWE has ever had.

Obviously I meant that I can't. At least not to the degree needed for me to like somebody. If that's what you want to watch for, then whatever. I watch it for what the primary focus is and that's not ring work.

I don't care what people think about HBK, I say the best ever is Austin, and Vince McMahon himself echoes that statement.

 

[British F-5]

He is a legend to the business, pure and simple. At times he was controversial, involved in drugs, but he came back from an injury that most wouldn’t work hard enough to return, put on so many 5 star matches and remand a draw up to his retirement. You look at Fair, Hogan, Stone Cold and Michaels the all have been controversial in their past, but were great draws and a service to wrestling, that’s why they are regarded as legends.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Obviously I meant that I can't. At least not to the degree needed for me to like somebody. If that's what you want to watch for, then whatever. I watch it for what the primary focus is and that's not ring work.

I don't care what people think about HBK, I say the best ever is Austin, and Vince McMahon himself echoes that statement.

I'm just curious, whats your complete criteria for what you think a perfect wrestler is? What makes Austin leaps and bounds better than HBK?

 

[Statfreak101]

IMO, Shawn Michaels ranks right up there with the best of all-time. I think there needs to be a set criteria to decipher who is the greatest of all time. You have guys like Flair, Hogan, Hart, Undertaker, Austin, The Rock, HBK, and others that are the names you usually hear brought up when talking about the 'best of all time.'

I think a case can be made for all of the aforementioned wrestlers.

 

[Kratosx23]

I'm just curious, whats your complete criteria for what you think a perfect wrestler is? What makes Austin leaps and bounds better than HBK?

Austin is the most charismatic wrestler ever, he's got amazing mic skills, his extensively long fued with Vince McMahon is the best fued ever written, he was amazing at comedy, his presence was second to none. He's also drawn 10000000000000000000000000x the money HBK ever has. HBK has never been a draw, in fact, he bored everyone so badly that WWE nearly went out of business during his run on top. Austin saved the company and they never looked back.

HBK is an amazing wrestler... fine. There's been better. Chris Benoit makes HBK look like a rookie by comparison. And that's the only area that he excels in, that's why he never drew. That's not enough.

I'd also like to add, Austin was ALSO a fantastic wrestler, and his 2 best matches (WM 13 vs Bret, and the 3 Stages of Hell against Triple H) are better than ANY Shawn Michaels match.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Austin is the most charismatic wrestler ever, he's got amazing mic skills, his extensively long fued with Vince McMahon is the best fued ever written, he was amazing at comedy, his presence was second to none. He's also drawn 10000000000000000000000000x the money HBK ever has. HBK has never been a draw, in fact, he bored everyone so badly that WWE nearly went out of business during his run on top. Austin saved the company and they never looked back. HBK is an amazing wrestler... fine. There's been better. Chris Benoit makes HBK look like a rookie by comparison. And that's the only area that he excels in, that's why he never drew. That's not enough.

I'd also like to add, Austin was ALSO a fantastic wrestler, and his 2 best matches (WM 13 vs Bret, and the 3 Stages of Hell against Triple H) are better than ANY Shawn Michaels match.

But if HBK wasn't the one on top during that time he was "boring" everyone, there probably wouldn't have been a company for Austin to save. He carried the WWE during that time. Sure they were losing to WCW, but come on, it didn't matter who was on top, they couldn't compete with the NWO.

I'm not saying one bad thing about Austin. I'm not stupid, i know how massive of a susperstar Austin was. I just feel you're not giving HBK enough credit. I mean the man won 11 PWI Match of the Year's. I know thats not nessacarily largely recognized by many, but it says something about the all around performer he was. And i also he wasn't as bad on the mic as you're making him out to be. Some of his promos in Montreal were great! He played an incredible heel.

 

[Kratosx23]

But if HBK wasn't the one on top during that time he was "boring" everyone, there probably wouldn't have been a company for Austin to save. He carried the WWE during that time. Sure they were losing to WCW, but come on, it didn't matter who was on top, they couldn't compete with the NWO.

What an excuse. :lmao

And you just contradicted yourself, because if NO ONE could've competed, as you say.....then what was he CARRYING? Nothing. In order to carry it, you have to be able to handle the weight. For example, Cena is carrying WWE at this point in time, because there's no one other than him that's capable of generating the revenue he does, or if there is, we haven't got them to that point yet.

I'm not saying one bad thing about Austin. I'm not stupid, i know how massive of a susperstar Austin was. I just feel you're not giving HBK enough credit. I mean the man won 11 PWI Match of the Year's. I know thats not nessacarily largely recognized by many, but it says something about the all around performer he was. And i also he wasn't as bad on the mic as you're making him out to be. Some of his promos in Montreal were great! He played an incredible heel.

I'm giving credit where I feel he deserves it. That's what I do, I give it where I think it's warranted. Even if I hate someone, if I think it's unfair not to, then I'll credit them with something. I haven't said anything bad about his ring work, he's one of the top workers ever. But no amount of ring work, no amount.....NO amount, can get me to like someone just based on that. I don't think he deserves credit on the mic. He's no better on the mic than a goof like Sheamus.

 

[Agmaster]

*blinks at thread* I stopped reading after I saw the OP's name.

 

[NoLeafClover]

Trying to compare Austin and Michaels is like comparing apples to oranges. They just were two completely different stars that made their names going down very different paths. Both had boat loads of charisma, that is unquestioned - but while Michaels excelled as an in-ring performer (not to say Austin was a bad wrestler by any means because he was one of the best), Austin excelled as an entertainer...specifically on the mic.

They also were stars of different times. While Austin was on the rise through 1996 and more so 1997, Michaels had already risen to main event status and was THE guy in the WWF (for better or worse). Before that, Michaels had been working in the midcard for years. When Michaels dropped the belt to Austin at WM 14, it cemented Austin’s new position as the top guy in the company and the rest is history. I will agree with Pyro in saying that Austin is the best overall superstar ever, but Michaels is right up there as well. Both are there for different reasons.

Back on the topic of the thread - thoughts on HBK - I figured I would just copy and paste the post I wrote back in March of 2010 regarding his retirement after Wrestlemania XXVI as I think it sums up all my thoughts of The Heartbreak Kid.

Wrestlemania X. It was really the first WWF event that I remember actually watching when I was young. Before that, I watched here and there and was familiar with the big names of Hogan, Warrior, Savage and Undertaker, but wasn’t a diehard fan. I ended up watching Wrestlemania X with my cousins who were huge into WWF at the time. That event made me a wrestling fan from there on out, and although the entire event was amazing, the man that really sealed the deal for me was The Heartbreak Kid, Shawn Michaels.

That ladder match was unlike anything I had ever seen in my life. The things that Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon were doing were unthinkable. I remember thinking to myself as Shawn went to the top of the ladder to perform the now iconic splash, that he was going to kill Razor Ramon (lol). From that match on, I was a huge Shawn Michaels fan. I loved how he was a bad boy character, that broke all the rules and didn't listen to anyone, but at the same time still had a lot of good guy characteristics. He wasn't as big as most of the other guys at the time, but he proved that you did not have to be a big guy to make it to the top of the WWE. He used his unbelievable athleticism and in-ring finesse to make even the biggest HBK haters admire his ability.

I don't know what it was about Shawn's in-ring talent that got me the most...whether it was his ability to make any move look like he was truly putting all of his power into it, or the way he could sell any move to make it look devastating, or just the way he executed all of his moves so picture perfect. Every single body slam, moonsault, elbow drop, and of course Sweet Chin Music, that Shawn did was done spot on every time. The man was not afraid to take a hard bump in the slightest and was the innovator of many of the "big spots and bumps" that modern WWE fans have somewhat taken for granted. Everything from Shawn falling off of the first Hell in a Cell against the Undertaker, to Shawn performing the splash on Razor Ramon at Wrestlemania X, to all of his high flying spots upon his return in 2002, he has always shown why he is the man that inspired so many of today’s wrestlers.

Seeing Shawn's evolution over the years was awesome. From the young "sexy bad boy" into the more matured version of that, into his formation of DX, into his awesome return in 2002 as the new Shawn Michaels has been an incredible journey to follow. The man stole the spot light in whatever involvement he had in the show, and made sure EVERYONE was talking about what Shawn Michaels did that night.

Shawn Michaels paved the way for wrestlers like Chris Jericho by making his type of high flying and risk taking style, combined with sound technical ability, that was all being delivered by a smaller guy -- acceptable -- and in the process making the style mainstream. Shawn has had classics with Bret Hart, Undertaker, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Razor Ramon, The British Bulldog, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, John Cena, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and so many more. The man could literally put on a 5 star match with ANYONE.

There is a reason he is called "The Showstopper", "The Main Event", and "Mr. Wrestlemania". He gave us, the fans, some of the most incredible matches and moments in professional wrestling history. The man put this business at the forefront of his life for over 20 years. Whether he was at the center of controversy, exploiting his backstage power, returning as a new man who had been changed for the better, or putting over younger talent in such an elaborate fashion he always gave 110% in whatever he was doing.

I know it is extremely hard for so many of us to accept that The Heartbreak Kid is finally hanging up his boots, but I think it gives us all comfort knowing that the man is comfortable and most of all READY to step away. He is ready to go and be with his family and be the father and husband he needs to be. Shawn will always be a part of the WWE and he will obviously never be forgotten. His final match against The Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXVI and his farewell address on Raw were exactly the send off he needed.

Shawn Michaels, you will be truly missed. Thank you for all the incredible memories.

 

[Mr.S]

As an in ring talent, he's fantastic. As an entertainer, he's absolutely worthless. I get no sense of enjoyment out of him on the mic at all, think he's massively overrated in that area and couldn't care less about him for that reason. No amount of ring talent justifies me liking somebody.

I though the same about Austin.Some boring generic brawler not remotely entertaining in any way.Perhaps a 100 swear words & a 100 stunners dont work for me.If ur mediocre in the ring,u dont deserve to be in the big league

 

[Kratosx23]

Nobody cares what Jeff Hardy fans think, though. LOL at him not deserving to be in the big leagues. The promoter of the big league says he's the fucking best talent he's ever employed.

 

[Mr.S]

Obviously I meant that I can't. At least not to the degree needed for me to like somebody. If that's what you want to watch for, then whatever. I watch it for what the primary focus is and that's not ring work.

I don't care what people think about HBK, I say the best ever is Austin, and Vince McMahon himself echoes that statement.

Yea Vince said something like Austin made him more money,I dont give two shits about it to be honest.Y should the ordinary people bother who made more money for Vince.

Even Jericho called Michaels the greatest anyway & Vince's opinion has no credibility as if hypothetically Stone Cold would gone to TNA & Hogan-Rock will in WWE he would called Hogan-Rock "THE BEST".

That is how much Vince's opinion counts.He will gladly foul-mouth Austin the day he works for a rival & take it from me here Vince will again Shawn the "greatest" this time in HOF & he will again call Taker & HHH "the greatest" in their respective HOF inductions

 

[vanderhevel]

I'm not a shawn guy, he's not even in Austins galaxy as far as im concerned. Shawn was a bit better in the ring sure, not saying austin was a slouch or anything. I think austins best matches are better than shawns best though. But as far as everything else is concerned austin is light years ahead of shawn in every category.

There's a reason shawn hasn't drawn a penny and austin is the biggest draw in history practically. When shawn was on top he was surrounded by shit, so it makes him look greater than he was.

 

[Baldwin.]

Austin is the most charismatic wrestler ever, he's got amazing mic skills, his extensively long fued with Vince McMahon is the best fued ever written, he was amazing at comedy, his presence was second to none. He's also drawn 10000000000000000000000000x the money HBK ever has. HBK has never been a draw, in fact, he bored everyone so badly that WWE nearly went out of business during his run on top. Austin saved the company and they never looked back.

HBK is an amazing wrestler... fine. There's been better. Chris Benoit makes HBK look like a rookie by comparison. And that's the only area that he excels in, that's why he never drew. That's not enough.

I'd also like to add, Austin was ALSO a fantastic wrestler, and his 2 best matches (WM 13 vs Bret, and the 3 Stages of Hell against Triple H) are better than ANY Shawn Michaels match.

fpalm No he wasn't. He was good but Jesus Christ he wasn't fantastic.

 

[Mr.S]

Nobody cares what Jeff Hardy fans think, though. LOL at him not deserving to be in the big leagues. The promoter of the big league says he's the fucking best talent he's ever employed.

I hate the hardys as a person & he practically has zero mic skills.The riks & bumps that Jeff is willing to take,his charisma is admirable & he is 10 TIMES AS OVER as ur Austin without having to swear,utter a word,land a finisher on the chairman.


Anyways the big league concept is something I find extremely retarded.People's thinking processes are narrow or big,not the leagues.

The promoter of " YOUR SO-called Big leagues would gladly call " Rock or Hogan the best if they would kiss his ass regardless of the fact however stupid they are.If Stone Cold ever supports a rival company McMahon will gladly rubbish Austin.

Mcmahon has always personally more attached to Michaels,has even termed him the greatest in-ring performer before even his HOF & trust me in this HOF he will label Michaels as the best