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I agree with the turning heel thing, but I think it's a bit deeper than just wanting to be edgy. It's more that adults want characters they care about.


A character who's evil and justified is interesting. You might relate to him, you might think his struggles justify his actions, you might want him to win by any means necessary.

A character who's evil and not justified, someone who just fucks things up for the fun of it, is interesting because you want the characters you like to beat them.

A character who's good and flawed is interesting, again you might relate to him and his struggles. You want him to win. If he goes too far at times, you like it.

The only thing that's really fucking boring for adults is a character who's good, flawless morally, and wins all the time. The only way characters like that are interesting is if they're super charismatic, and their opponents are believable.


If you call for someone to have a heel turn what you're really calling for is for them to get out of the fourth category. It's when a wrestler doesn't have the tools to be the kind of babyface they're being.
 

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You've been watching wrestling for how long and you still haven't figured out that WWE isn't good at booking faces.They're generic cookie cutter good guys that are just happy to be there. Heels get a lot more freedom creatively and they don't come off as fake like babyfaces way too often do. They also don't know when to back off on a push or give more of a push and not to overexpose or underexpose talent. Not too hard to figure out.
 

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"If you don't fit my hyper specifiic 1980's cartoon steroid beefcake look in my subdued homoerotic mindset they're a vanilla midget and should go to catering."
I feel like it's the exact opposite in 2022 actually...anyone who dare resembles an athlete or God forbid a bodybuilder are vilifed
 

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Fans don't know whatever they want and it still happens today in IWC. They say they support this one wrestler but the moment he or she gets successful then they decided to turn on them.
The reality is alot of vocal minority IWC are the minority and the fans happy with the product don't bitch and whine.

It's only when reality hits you such as triple hgh burial of throey do you get those silent happy fans angry and vocal.

For every loud person there are many more happy with current product
 

· Sassy Southern
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The issue is that a lot of internet wrestling fans are too "smart" about wrestling for their own good and they have lost sight that wrestling is entertainment. It's supposed to be about being entertained, not treating it like some sport or as if it's life or death.

...but yes..."I want a certain thing to happen", certain thing happens, "I don't want it anymore" or "it didn't happen exactly the way that I wanted it to and I am going to complain about it" very much gets annoying.

If it were up to some people in the IWC most of the wrestlers would all be heels and overly macho. Basically no variety. Insecurity from the IWC is also a pattern.
 

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"If you don't fit my hyper specifiic 1980's cartoon steroid beefcake look in my subdued homoerotic mindset they're a vanilla midget and should go to catering."
This.

I have been here for 15 years off and on and have clearly noticed that the last few years have seen a trend in workrate guys getting hate. Johnny Gargano, Ricochet, Cedric Alexander, etc. would have been beloved 12 years ago (Evan Bourne was NOT hated here then, but I guarantee he would be called a vanilla midget now). I remember in 2004-2005 (not this forum, but another one... I was around when the IWC was mostly Gen X'ers and Millennials were just starting to register on wrestling forums) some fans wanting Paul London in the main event scene while wanting people like Mark Henry released, which would be a crazy thought here right now (that same forum said that London vs. Akio on Velocity was a MOTY candidates even, though on here they'd emphasize Akio's lack of charisma, look, and mic skills and would be wanting him released). This also goes to the women as well, as there is a thing about wanting Nikkita Lyons to dethrone Mandy despite her being REALLY green, while they have Roxanne Perez who is REALLY good in the ring despite only being 20 (being really good that young is very rare).

Being around for so long and now seeing workrate guys getting hate is quite the experience.
 

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I've been a part of forums since 1998. I remember back then that the IWC has always complained about things. People were absolutely shitting on the Rock when in fact they had no idea how good they had it. Kurt Angle was getting too big a push. Beniot was the best wrestler in the world and he isn't being pushed enough.
 

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Whenever a new promotion gets popular, it's a call to arms for many of them to shit on it and their fans until it no longer exists.

The current era is always the worst ever and WWE should be going out of business.

Equally, there's always an era that everyone looks back to and pretends was the best. In the 00s, it was the 80s. For the last decade, it's the attitude era. Now there are some younger fans bizarrely claiming the late 00s and early 10s.

Everyone hates the face main eventers.

Too many people hate watch. At least today, you can get Netflix and easily watch something else!

The vibe is very negative and full of complaining. I have questioned over the years whether this is a worthwhile fandom because of this.
 

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This.

I have been here for 15 years off and on and have clearly noticed that the last few years have seen a trend in workrate guys getting hate. Johnny Gargano, Ricochet, Cedric Alexander, etc. would have been beloved 12 years ago (Evan Bourne was NOT hated here then, but I guarantee he would be called a vanilla midget now). I remember in 2004-2005 (not this forum, but another one... I was around when the IWC was mostly Gen X'ers and Millennials were just starting to register on wrestling forums) some fans wanting Paul London in the main event scene while wanting people like Mark Henry released, which would be a crazy thought here right now (that same forum said that London vs. Akio on Velocity was a MOTY candidates even, though on here they'd emphasize Akio's lack of charisma, look, and mic skills and would be wanting him released). This also goes to the women as well, as there is a thing about wanting Nikkita Lyons to dethrone Mandy despite her being REALLY green, while they have Roxanne Perez who is REALLY good in the ring despite only being 20 (being really good that young is very rare).

Being around for so long and now seeing workrate guys getting hate is quite the experience.
This is very true! I really don't get it, other than insecurity perhaps. Why do people want to see roided, muscly men so much anyway? I know that wrestling is questionable in a sexuality sense anyway, but what the fuck?

You get featherweight boxing, but you don't get people with muscle fetishes there moaning.
 

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The ebbs and flows of if the workrate fans or fans of "the look" are the louder group, right now the size marks seem to be louder. Trend seems to favor who is being catered to more and whoever isn't will be louder.

Aggressively thinking something should be booked one way and then still being unhappy when things are booked as they were wanting.

"Top guy bad".

"(Insert mid talent) is being held down by WWE! They should go to (Impact/AEW/general Indies, take your pick over the years) and really prove they've got it!" and talent does so and people find out maybe they just weren't all that in the first place. There are plenty of exceptions of people who did prove themselves outside of WWE while being overlooked, but guys like Sandow or Masters proved maybe WWE was right about them all along.
 

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This is very true! I really don't get it, other than insecurity perhaps. Why do people want to see roided, muscly men so much anyway? I know that wrestling is questionable in a sexuality sense anyway, but what the fuck?

You get featherweight boxing, but you don't get people with muscle fetishes there moaning.
Boxing uses weight classes though. As does MMA. In wrestling, Adam Cole could very well squash Wardlow if he was booked to do so.
 

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The IWC feel like one of the only fanbases that have a decently sized subset that legitimately don't like wrestling itself, but only the non-wrestling elements. It would be like NBA fans who don't like basketball but do enjoy the drama surrounding it.

IWC as a whole also generally has always leaned towards having a pessimistic attitude about basically any storyline, match, or any aspect of wrestling itself, and are hard-pressed to call something great without comparing it to the very tippy top of wrestling history.
Wrestling isn't a sport it's entertainment. You wouldn't want to watch a superhero movie that's nothing but a long drawn out fight scene. You need a story and a character.
 
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