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Outside of Kayfabe: Why is the Undertaker a Legend?

5K views 41 replies 30 participants last post by  Tha Pope 
#1 · (Edited)
I consider the Undertaker to be one of the best big men of all time. On this forum I always see vague statements that Taker is a legend. Honestly though, I want to know why outside of Kayfabe (aka the streak) why people consider him a legend?

Edit: People, I'm not bashing the Undertaker, I want your opinions outside of the streak. That's all.
 
#2 ·
Loyalty to WWE, willingness to put people over who in all honesty shouldn't have been, making people believe being a deadman was cool. It's shocking you even ask such a question IMO. Everything about the man screams legend and the fact that he was Mania's biggest attraction in most years (especially recently) where he made a couple of appearances a year, says it all...
 
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#3 ·
What are you on about? Outside of kayfabe? Pretty much every wrestler who is considered a legend is a legend because of what they did in kayfabe...
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Not really, I'm just asking why you guys think he's a legend. I'm not discrediting him. The fact that Flair went to other territories, put guys over, lived the gimmick lifestyle and being one of the best ring psychologists ever is why he's a legend. Hulk Hogan was huge, he surpassed wrestling and broke into the mainstream, that's why he's a legend. Stone Cold replicated this to an extent, he's a legend. Lou Thesz was considered one of the best shooters of all time, that's why he's a legend. He was revered by the American public.

Taker still has to have skills to be a legend (Which he has), booking alone doesn't give you legend status.
 
#7 ·
People also forget, outside of loyalty to WWE, Undertaker is an amazing athlete.

Sure, his early stuff in WWE wasn't something of wrestling lore, but the fact that he kept revolutionizing his style (adding MMA moves/strikes, the entire American Bad ass overhaul, even his longevity) shows what a once-in-a-lifetime athlete Undertaker truly is.

The man is legit 6'10 and he can move in the ring better than pretty much any other big men in history.

Athletic talent is one thing that Undertaker has over many of his predecessors and successors. No one is even close to him in that department.
 
#15 ·
Agreed 100%.

I'd say his longevity, ability to recreate himself/keep himself relevant, the evolution of his character, and the evolution of his in-ring ability.


1. He's been around forever, but people still LOVED him (even before going part time). This is almost impossible these days (ie, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc.). Look at the other guys that had this type of longevity -- Flair, Hogan, HBK, etc. It says a lot when you can keep people interested for 20 years.

2. He was always recreating himself, even if just with minor tweaks. First he was the deadman who was emotionless, never really spoke, seemingly couldn't get hurt. Then he became a talker, became more "human", etc. Then he became a big talker, but took on a more evil character. Then he became a "bad ass", but maintained his "evil" character while REALLY embracing his human-ness. He was then able to successfully go back to the "deadman" character while keeping almost all of the positive traits from his various gimmick tweaks all in one.

3. He's one of the guys that seemed to get better with time in the ring. The only other guy I can think of off the top of my head that was like this was HBK. He went from a fairly limited moveset to incorporating things like dives over the top rope, and signature moves like the big leg drop on the apron, etc. He was also able to take moves he had never really used before, tweak them, and make them into signature moves (powerbomb --> last ride).



I think it's the fact that he was around for SO long, yet his character and moveset continued to evolve to keep people interested. In my book, anyone that can captivate people's interest for 20+ years is a legend.
I don't think it's the time in the business, but being relevant in the business for so long is important. I like how you stated your viewpoints, even though I disagree with getting better with time. I do think he became more of an appreciation rather than a better worker in the last 8 years if that makes sense.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I'd say his longevity, ability to recreate himself/keep himself relevant, the evolution of his character, and the evolution of his in-ring ability.


1. He's been around forever, but people still LOVED him (even before going part time). This is almost impossible these days (ie, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc.). Look at the other guys that had this type of longevity -- Flair, Hogan, HBK, etc. It says a lot when you can keep people interested for 20 years.

2. He was always recreating himself, even if just with minor tweaks. First he was the deadman who was emotionless, never really spoke, seemingly couldn't get hurt. Then he became a talker, became more "human", etc. Then he became a big talker, but took on a more evil character. Then he became a "bad ass", but maintained his "evil" character while REALLY embracing his human-ness. He was then able to successfully go back to the "deadman" character while keeping almost all of the positive traits from his various gimmick tweaks all in one.

3. He's one of the guys that seemed to get better with time in the ring. The only other guy I can think of off the top of my head that was like this was HBK. He went from a fairly limited moveset to incorporating things like dives over the top rope, and signature moves like the big leg drop on the apron, etc. He was also able to take moves he had never really used before, tweak them, and make them into signature moves (powerbomb --> last ride).



I think it's the fact that he was around for SO long, yet his character and moveset continued to evolve to keep people interested. In my book, anyone that can captivate people's interest for 20+ years is a legend.
 
#16 ·
He is one of the best and most underrated in ring performers in company history.

Casual fans think he's over because of his gimmick and mic skills, but he can hold his own in the ring regardless of who he was working with. He never needed to be carried.

He is legend among wrestlers because of his workrate(when he was healthy enough to work regularly), and loyalty to WWE. He has never left the company since 1990, and has gotten a lot of good offers to do so, and also for his willingness to pass knowledge onto younger guys and put people over.
 
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#17 ·
Anyways on to the point, despite how his character might have started off in the WWE as a more silent type, he's easily one of the better talkers I've ever heard. His athleticism for his size is once in a lifetime type of talent, amazing feuds, being involved in iconic moments, constantly adding wrinkles & layers to his character which kept his gimmick from ever truly being stale, and the legend grows from there. Undertaker sitting up & no selling a move can cause a bigger reaction then most people can even dream of being able to cause, like in the Taker/Punk match from a few years ago at Wrestlemania.

The combination of his talents plus a great entrance, gimmick & overall just amazing presentation make this guy something to behold, iconic moves that were protected enough in his prime to also cement themselves into his legacy. Seriously I've seen tons of wrestling from everywhere you can imagine & despite all that I think of the Tombstone & Chokeslam as Undertaker's moves, it's an instant association. The guy was a legend in 1998 to me personally, everything else that occurred later just cemented it further.
 
#20 ·
He took something that looks like a shit gimmick on paper and stretched that character into a 25 year career on top.

And unlike other highly respected veterans, he didn't rest on his laurels and rely on shortcuts and cheap tactics, he worked even harder and cemented the claim of being the best big man in pro wrestling history.
 
#21 ·
Great matches and longevity. Simple as that.
 
#23 ·
I'm sorry I'm not discussing how fucked Bryan is or how Reigns does or doesn't deserve the push he's getting.
 
#24 ·
Longevity, athleticism, professionalism, adaptability, attitude, loyalty and some of my favorite matches of all time. To me, that is why he is a legend. I really detest the attitude of "Who cares about The Undertaker anymore?, he is nothing now the streak is broken".
 
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#25 ·
Took a ridiculous gimmick and made it legendary
He's been around forever and has constantly evolved with the product
He's widely acknowledged as a backstage leader
Put on tremendous matches throughout his career (especially in his later years)
Didn't seem to ever use his position to politic. One of the few top guys who put the good of the company before himself
 
#33 ·
This guy gets it. People often talk about how great the gimmick is/was without mentioning how much the actual guy made of it.

If that gimmick was given to the wrong guy then they would've been laughed out of arenas in two months.

I would add that he's arguably the last great 'special attraction' in wrestling. Having the position a bit like Andre used to. Not the champ but a special attraction draw none the less.
 
#27 ·
Size, best gimmick of all time, locker room leader, beloved by fans, is there anything you would change about the Undertaker to make him a legend? Who would you place above him? He's wrestled Hogan, Flair, Hart, HHH, Stone Cold, The Rock, HBK, he's wrestled just about every legend from the last 3 decades.

Major shout out to the Undertaker for everything he has done for Wrestling.
 
#28 ·
His sheer loyalty and longevity is why he is a legend outside of kayfabe. Nevermind his professionalism and his consistently great matches.
 
#29 · (Edited by Moderator)
If we're talking about Mark Calaway then I have tremendous respect for the Man behind the character, he's done charity work, doesn't boast about it, lives a peaceful life outside of Wrestling, some of that is his devotion to keeping the character's mystique. The Streak doesn't define The Undertaker. His career as a whole has been amazing, he's constantly evolved the character to stay relevant, he's smart, he loves the business, he's put guys over. Longevity of the character is a major reason to respect him, he's always stayed fresh. He's great matches. The Undertaker is personally my Greatest Of All Time.
 
#35 ·
Managed to stay relevant for 4 decades, reinventing himself to stay relevant and well known even in with non WWE fans, had great feuds and character . He is a respected veteran that knew when to call the shots and didnt need titles huge title reigns to be a star like some of them
 
#36 ·
-He has fame that transcends wrestling itself
-He has put on many memorable matches, many 4 and 5 star affairs
-Ever hear anyone shoot negatively on Taker? Nope, and you won't. He has the respect of all his peers across many eras
-As was repeatedly mentioned, from the 80s to now he has remained relevant. That's 4 different decades for those keeping score

Bottom line is he is a legend. He earned that status. Listen to SCSA Podcast where he talks Undertaker. Austin is clearly filled with nothing but respect for the man and thinks of him as a legend and a leader. If that is not enough of a resume for you I don't know what to tell ya
 
#37 ·
Bottom line is he is a legend. He earned that status. Listen to SCSA Podcast where he talks Undertaker. Austin is clearly filled with nothing but respect for the man and thinks of him as a legend and a leader. If that is not enough of a resume for you I don't know what to tell ya
Pretty much this, every top guy since the mid nineties has come out and said Taker is the man they look up to in the locker room.
 
#38 ·
In 1991, he was wrestling Hulk Hogan.

In 1998, he was wrestling Stone Cold.

In 2002, he was wrestling The Rock.

In 2006, he was wrestling John Cena.

In 2013, he was wrestling CM Punk, and 2014, Brock Lesnar.

23 years. That's why. He's WWE's best worker ever.
 
#39 ·
OP this thread should have been locked for daring to ask such a ridiculous question. But I'll indulge...

You ask why he's a legend other than the fact that WWE tells us he's one. Don't you think that by 25 years the fans would catch on to the fact that we're being fed something that isn't actually true (he's strong, dominant, intimidating, one of the greatest) if it WEREN'T true?

Character:
He's a legend because he took a what should have been a short-span comedy gimmick and made it riveting. He is one of the most underrated performers outside of actually wrestling ever. His voice, his tone, eyes, facial expressions, body language... everything right down to the way he clenches his fists and stares through his opponents before entering the ring are so masterful in performance that fans believe every single thing we're told about him. Then he did a 360 and portrayed a close to life biker gimmick and made it just as successful, and then he transitioned back without missing a step, and the fans loved him just the same.

Cool Factor: He was one of... if not the first (even before Stone Cold) to make a badass heel actually cool. He talked about ripping out viscera and bleeding his opponents dry in cartoon era of little children and for some strange reason he got CHEERED. They loved him without the WWE even trying to push him as something great to be loved or appreciated. He was always just cool. No matter what he was playing heel or face. Even in defeat. His entrances, body language and expressions are pure swag along with the way he carries himself.

Athletic ability: This should speak for itself. The things he can do in the ring for a man of his size are incredible. And despite the nagging injuries and pressure the travel and everything else put on his huge frame he continued to get better through the years.

Ring psychology: Very few can tell a story as good as he can. He has the ability with a very select group to garner certain reactions from the crowd without speaking- a mere tilt of his head, a motion, a facial expression is sometimes enough to convey exactly what he needs to.

His creativity and vision: Vince created the character, Mark Calaway took it to the heights it went to. Everything from his old school darkside promos were scripted largely by him (confirmed by the late Percy "Paul Bearer" Pringle), his outfits, looks, mannerism, habits were all a unique creation from his own mind and vision.

Lived the gimmick: Was he actually someone who buried people? No. But he sure as hell lived the wrestler/rockstar lifestyle of the old partying days. He's as much of a legend for his partying and running around smoking weed, drinking JD by the gallon, bagging the strippers, hanging with pornstars and rockstars, getting into bar fights in his biker days and raising hell with the likes of Godfather and the samoans back in the day ... as he is a legend on screen. Jake the Snake ALWAYS has an Undertaker story to tell in every interview... even he seems to revere Calaway from those days.

The MAN backstage: There is nobody who unequivocally stood for the "boys" backstage more than he did. He is the agreed upon and very enthusiastically-supported backstage leader, the "Godfather" among the wrestlers if you will and nobody disputes this. He was judge of the infamous wrestlers court and yet with all of these he's not considered amongst almost anybody to have been an asshole. Instead the opposite is overwhelmingly told to be the case. Even those who have left the company in bad circumstances and are currently bitter have nothing but great things to say and stories to tell about him. Mark Calaway is spoken about with reverence in shoot interviews and seems to be thought of as much of a legend backstage as the Undertaker is on screen.

Toughness: he's wrestled with broken bones, cuts, rib fractures, torn muscles, massive blood loss, a crushed face, concussions (most recently one so severe it had him barely lucid in the ring and collapse unconscious backstage after) and been blown up in his own pyro fire.. and ALWAYS continued the match and took it like a man, never complaining or expecting accolades or fan-fair.

Longevity and Endurance both on/off-screen- in this brutal, fairweather business where the fans can chew you up and spit you out faster than you can say "boo" he has lasted 30 years (25 in the wwe) with the quality of performances he has, with the level of unshakeable respect he commands from almost everybody, has never abused his position of respect and status and hasn't been fired by Vince. Rather he has amazingly remained one of the most liked and respected... dare I say loved people on a personal level by the famously crusty and hard to get along with billionaire Vince McMahon. This is almost unprecedented.

On a personal level, the business does a horrible number on wrestlers physically and emotionally. Many have a hard time leaving it even in their minds and when they do they suffer drink and drug addictions, personal crises, financial ruin, and often early death. While Calaway's physical struggles have been well-documented he has amazingly remained a humble and down-to-earth guy. He no longer lives the party lifestyle and has left his biker days long behind him. He's by all accounts a happy and domesticated husband and father who is healthy emotionally and has been very good with his money by investing wisely and creating successful business ventures outside of wrestling. He's happier these helping coach his daughter's soccer team than he is partying or being in front of the camera. Again this is often the exception unfortunately for people transitioning out of the business rather than the rule. Especially for those who have lived it as long as he has.

Hopefully you don't STILL have to ask why he's a legend. More than anyone else is the man.... Taker is THE MAN.
 
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