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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I consider the Undertaker to be one of the best big men of all time. On this forum I always see vague statements that Taker is a legend. Honestly though, I want to know why outside of Kayfabe (aka the streak) why people consider him a legend?

Edit: People, I'm not bashing the Undertaker, I want your opinions outside of the streak. That's all.
 

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Loyalty to WWE, willingness to put people over who in all honesty shouldn't have been, making people believe being a deadman was cool. It's shocking you even ask such a question IMO. Everything about the man screams legend and the fact that he was Mania's biggest attraction in most years (especially recently) where he made a couple of appearances a year, says it all...
 
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What are you on about? Outside of kayfabe? Pretty much every wrestler who is considered a legend is a legend because of what they did in kayfabe...
 
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Loyalty to WWE, willingness to put people over who in all honesty shouldn't have been, making people believe being a deadman was cool. It's shocking you even ask such a question IMO. Everything about the man screams legend and the fact that he was Mania's biggest attraction in most years (especially recently) where he made a couple of appearances a year, says it all...
This!

Undertaker is one of the GOAT's. He also had the ability to change with the times and alter his character. He's been The Dead Man, Big Evil, Corporate Taker and American Badass. He was able to evolve and adapt. He deserves nothing but respect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
What are you on about? Outside of kayfabe? Pretty much every wrestler who is considered a legend is a legend because of what they did in kayfabe...
Not really, I'm just asking why you guys think he's a legend. I'm not discrediting him. The fact that Flair went to other territories, put guys over, lived the gimmick lifestyle and being one of the best ring psychologists ever is why he's a legend. Hulk Hogan was huge, he surpassed wrestling and broke into the mainstream, that's why he's a legend. Stone Cold replicated this to an extent, he's a legend. Lou Thesz was considered one of the best shooters of all time, that's why he's a legend. He was revered by the American public.

Taker still has to have skills to be a legend (Which he has), booking alone doesn't give you legend status.
 

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People also forget, outside of loyalty to WWE, Undertaker is an amazing athlete.

Sure, his early stuff in WWE wasn't something of wrestling lore, but the fact that he kept revolutionizing his style (adding MMA moves/strikes, the entire American Bad ass overhaul, even his longevity) shows what a once-in-a-lifetime athlete Undertaker truly is.

The man is legit 6'10 and he can move in the ring better than pretty much any other big men in history.

Athletic talent is one thing that Undertaker has over many of his predecessors and successors. No one is even close to him in that department.
 

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Not really, the previous poster and you are attacking me like I'm not just asking why you guys think he's a legend. I'm not discrediting him. The fact that Flair went to other territories, put guys over, lived the gimmick lifestyle and being one of the best ring psychologists ever is why he's a legend. Hulk Hogan was huge, he surpassed wrestling and broke into the mainstream, that's why he's a legend. Stone Cold replicated this to an extent, he's a legend. Lou Thesz was considered one of the best shooters of all time, that's why he's a legend. He was revered by the American public.

Taker still has to have skills to be a legend, booking alone doesn't give you legend status.
Tell me you didn't just say that...

I honestly haven't got much to say to you apart from this, you are a dumb fuck, The Undertaker means more to WWE than near enough anybody else in it's history, notice how i said near enough before you try rebuke my comment. 2016 hall of fame, when you hear the tributes, see the tributes and how much he means to the WWE, you'll learn that he is the definition of LEGEND.
 

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Other than longevity, there aren't a whole lot of factors in his favour. He didn't draw, he barely put anyone over, he only had like five matches which surpassed average until 2002.
 

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The Blue Meanie
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Not really, I'm just asking why you guys think he's a legend. I'm not discrediting him. The fact that Flair went to other territories, put guys over, lived the gimmick lifestyle and being one of the best ring psychologists ever is why he's a legend. Hulk Hogan was huge, he surpassed wrestling and broke into the mainstream, that's why he's a legend. Stone Cold replicated this to an extent, he's a legend. Lou Thesz was considered one of the best shooters of all time, that's why he's a legend. He was revered by the American public.

Taker still has to have skills to be a legend, booking alone doesn't give you legend status.
:rockwut

Undertaker has all those qualities you praise Flair, Austin and Thesz for. And Taker's been wrestling since 1984. What is there for him to prove 31 years later? He's done it all, including put over younger talent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Tell me you didn't just say that...

I honestly haven't got much to say to you apart from this, you are a dumb fuck, The Undertaker means more to WWE than near enough anybody else in it's history, notice how i said near enough before you try rebuke my comment. 2016 hall of fame, when you hear the tributes, see the tributes and how much he means to the WWE, you'll learn that he is the definition of LEGEND.
In my opening sentence I said I consider him one of the best big men of all time. Please learn to read and stop assuming. I even edited my post knowing you'd make an assumption.

:rockwut

Undertaker has all those qualities you praise Flair, Austin and Thesz for. And Taker's been wrestlnig since 1984. What is there for him to prove 31 years later? He's done it all.
Taker lived the life of an Undead guy? What? Taker never really transcended wrestling. The streak is just a Wrestlemania gimmick, and it's good. Taker is a great wrestler, is extremely athletic. I understand these things. I want to know why YOU (AKA NOT MY OWN THOUGHTS) As to why YOU believe the Undertaker is a legend. I already know why I believe he is.
 
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Tell me you didn't just say that...

I honestly haven't got much to say to you apart from this, you are a dumb fuck, The Undertaker means more to WWE than near enough anybody else in it's history, notice how i said near enough before you try rebuke my comment. 2016 hall of fame, when you hear the tributes, see the tributes and how much he means to the WWE, you'll learn that he is the definition of LEGEND.
Yeah you completely misunderstood what he meant.
 

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Yeah you completely misunderstood what he meant.
Did he not say Taker had to have skills? Implying clearly that he believes taker didn't have any? If i read it wrong then i apologise.
 

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I'd say his longevity, ability to recreate himself/keep himself relevant, the evolution of his character, and the evolution of his in-ring ability.


1. He's been around forever, but people still LOVED him (even before going part time). This is almost impossible these days (ie, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc.). Look at the other guys that had this type of longevity -- Flair, Hogan, HBK, etc. It says a lot when you can keep people interested for 20 years.

2. He was always recreating himself, even if just with minor tweaks. First he was the deadman who was emotionless, never really spoke, seemingly couldn't get hurt. Then he became a talker, became more "human", etc. Then he became a big talker, but took on a more evil character. Then he became a "bad ass", but maintained his "evil" character while REALLY embracing his human-ness. He was then able to successfully go back to the "deadman" character while keeping almost all of the positive traits from his various gimmick tweaks all in one.

3. He's one of the guys that seemed to get better with time in the ring. The only other guy I can think of off the top of my head that was like this was HBK. He went from a fairly limited moveset to incorporating things like dives over the top rope, and signature moves like the big leg drop on the apron, etc. He was also able to take moves he had never really used before, tweak them, and make them into signature moves (powerbomb --> last ride).



I think it's the fact that he was around for SO long, yet his character and moveset continued to evolve to keep people interested. In my book, anyone that can captivate people's interest for 20+ years is a legend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
People also forget, outside of loyalty to WWE, Undertaker is an amazing athlete.

Sure, his early stuff in WWE wasn't something of wrestling lore, but the fact that he kept revolutionizing his style (adding MMA moves/strikes, the entire American Bad ass overhaul, even his longevity) shows what a once-in-a-lifetime athlete Undertaker truly is.

The man is legit 6'10 and he can move in the ring better than pretty much any other big men in history.

Athletic talent is one thing that Undertaker has over many of his predecessors and successors. No one is even close to him in that department.
Agreed 100%.

I'd say his longevity, ability to recreate himself/keep himself relevant, the evolution of his character, and the evolution of his in-ring ability.


1. He's been around forever, but people still LOVED him (even before going part time). This is almost impossible these days (ie, Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc.). Look at the other guys that had this type of longevity -- Flair, Hogan, HBK, etc. It says a lot when you can keep people interested for 20 years.

2. He was always recreating himself, even if just with minor tweaks. First he was the deadman who was emotionless, never really spoke, seemingly couldn't get hurt. Then he became a talker, became more "human", etc. Then he became a big talker, but took on a more evil character. Then he became a "bad ass", but maintained his "evil" character while REALLY embracing his human-ness. He was then able to successfully go back to the "deadman" character while keeping almost all of the positive traits from his various gimmick tweaks all in one.

3. He's one of the guys that seemed to get better with time in the ring. The only other guy I can think of off the top of my head that was like this was HBK. He went from a fairly limited moveset to incorporating things like dives over the top rope, and signature moves like the big leg drop on the apron, etc. He was also able to take moves he had never really used before, tweak them, and make them into signature moves (powerbomb --> last ride).



I think it's the fact that he was around for SO long, yet his character and moveset continued to evolve to keep people interested. In my book, anyone that can captivate people's interest for 20+ years is a legend.
I don't think it's the time in the business, but being relevant in the business for so long is important. I like how you stated your viewpoints, even though I disagree with getting better with time. I do think he became more of an appreciation rather than a better worker in the last 8 years if that makes sense.
 

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He is one of the best and most underrated in ring performers in company history.

Casual fans think he's over because of his gimmick and mic skills, but he can hold his own in the ring regardless of who he was working with. He never needed to be carried.

He is legend among wrestlers because of his workrate(when he was healthy enough to work regularly), and loyalty to WWE. He has never left the company since 1990, and has gotten a lot of good offers to do so, and also for his willingness to pass knowledge onto younger guys and put people over.
 
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Anyways on to the point, despite how his character might have started off in the WWE as a more silent type, he's easily one of the better talkers I've ever heard. His athleticism for his size is once in a lifetime type of talent, amazing feuds, being involved in iconic moments, constantly adding wrinkles & layers to his character which kept his gimmick from ever truly being stale, and the legend grows from there. Undertaker sitting up & no selling a move can cause a bigger reaction then most people can even dream of being able to cause, like in the Taker/Punk match from a few years ago at Wrestlemania.

The combination of his talents plus a great entrance, gimmick & overall just amazing presentation make this guy something to behold, iconic moves that were protected enough in his prime to also cement themselves into his legacy. Seriously I've seen tons of wrestling from everywhere you can imagine & despite all that I think of the Tombstone & Chokeslam as Undertaker's moves, it's an instant association. The guy was a legend in 1998 to me personally, everything else that occurred later just cemented it further.
 

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Agreed 100%.



I don't think it's the time in the business, but being relevant in the business for so long is important. I like how you stated your viewpoints, even though I disagree with getting better with time. I do think he became more of an appreciation rather than a better worker in the last 8 years if that makes sense.
Yeah, I didn't mean time in the business, just the fact that he could keep us interested for that long.

And maybe you can say it was his opponents, but I consider his last 5 WM matches (aside from the Lesnar match, which he had to work injured) some of the best matches of his career. Both with HBK, both with HHH, one with Punk were 5 amazing matches. Sure you could say that he had great guys to work with, but it takes two to tango. Also, with regard to "getting better with time", I didn't mean that every year was better than the one before it, but I think if you look at his work in, say, 2003, it was better than his work in 1993... So generally speaking, he improved from year to year, but of course, age will catch up with you.
 

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Did he not say Taker had to have skills? Implying clearly that he believes taker didn't have any? If i read it wrong then i apologise.
Yeah he was responding to this.

What are you on about? Outside of kayfabe? Pretty much every wrestler who is considered a legend is a legend because of what they did in kayfabe...
So then he responded with this.

Not really, I'm just asking why you guys think he's a legend. I'm not discrediting him. The fact that Flair went to other territories, put guys over, lived the gimmick lifestyle and being one of the best ring psychologists ever is why he's a legend. Hulk Hogan was huge, he surpassed wrestling and broke into the mainstream, that's why he's a legend. Stone Cold replicated this to an extent, he's a legend. Lou Thesz was considered one of the best shooters of all time, that's why he's a legend. He was revered by the American public.

Taker still has to have skills to be a legend (Which he has), booking alone doesn't give you legend status.
So to me OP was trying to explain that skills also play a part in making a guy a legend, all the booking & kayfabe accomplishments are meaningless if a guy doesn't have substance.
 

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He took something that looks like a shit gimmick on paper and stretched that character into a 25 year career on top.

And unlike other highly respected veterans, he didn't rest on his laurels and rely on shortcuts and cheap tactics, he worked even harder and cemented the claim of being the best big man in pro wrestling history.
 
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