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I'll have a good reason to jump on Smackdown quicker than usual tonight to check it out. Curious to see what they make out of nothing in the mold of an exhibition main event on the B show. There's no doubt they'll probably rack up a decent number of matches vs each other being employed by WWE. Gonna be interesting that it's one of those "popular indie worker pairings" that didn't really have many matches vs each other pre WWE. I count only three singles matches, and then a few tags in ROH.
The cool thing about any Rollins match in the WWE is that, even if he faces someone he wrestled during his days in ROH, it's going to be a completely different match than what happened previously because more so than any other wrestler who is in the WWE now who previously worked the indy's, Rollins took his game to a completely different level once he joined WWE. I mean, it's almost shocking when compare the wresrler he was in 2006-2009 to the one he's been from 2012-2016.

Don't get me wrong, of course Black was more than capable back in ROH. His matches with Danielson and Steen are amongst my favorite of that time period. Especially the Danielson matches, those hold up marvelously on rewatch. The New Horizons match is still Rollins best outing ever IMO.

But, I just can't help but marvel at how much BETTER he became, all around, these last few years he's worked in the WWE.

You might disagree, because I know the love you have for Generico, but I feel the same way about Zayn/Generico, though to a much lesser extent. I just think he's been even better as Sami Zayn than he was as Generico, but that might just be me. Seeing his face just takes the fire and passion he always displayed and boosts it up a notch, and of course helps with selling and emoting, too.

I still wish Rollins would tone down the flashy stuff when he's working heel, save it for his eventual baby face run and all that (the same goes for Owens, frankly) but other than that I love watching his work. After Zayn/Nakamura/Cesaro, he's probably the next best guy WWE has. Doing flashy stuff is fine when your a heel and facing a Danielson or Zayn, guys the fans will ALWAYS be behind, not so much when he's facing Cena or Reigns or another baby face who doesn't have that universal support.

That's just my feelings though, I just prefer watching matches where the face is cheered and the heel is boo'd and there is no confusion or disconnect.

Either way, I'm turning SD! on right now and eagerly anticipating the first Zayn/Rollins singles match I've personally ever seen.
 

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Discussion Starter #183
Zayn getting to add in the facial reactions to go along w/his body language selling is an advantage that WWE has opened itself up to. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say there's been too much of a change from his indies to now as far as growing more from an already defined BITW status to me. Same kind of follows suit w/Rollins, except for both I don't deny that WWE has given them new life in the promo department. Now this is where Black to Rollins sees a MASSIVE change. Generico had presence always, and it transferred over well to Zayn w/o the mask and easy to root for persona, confidence. But my gosh, does Rollins now have presence. A natural command of things that while always top notch, he didn't exactly have even while as champion in ROH. Charisma and appeal were there, sure. I was hooked to his work from the very start, but I think most will understand what I'm talking about here. He's much more complete today in that regard.

When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done. One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.
 

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When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done. One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.
What?
 

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Zayn getting to add in the facial reactions to go along w/his body language selling is an advantage that WWE has opened itself up to. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say there's been too much of a change from his indies to now as far as growing more from an already defined BITW status to me. Same kind of follows suit w/Rollins, except for both I don't deny that WWE has given them new life in the promo department. Now this is where Black to Rollins sees a MASSIVE change. Generico had presence always, and it transferred over well to Zayn w/o the mask and easy to root for persona, confidence. But my gosh, does Rollins now have presence. A natural command of things that while always top notch, he didn't exactly have even while as champion in ROH. Charisma and appeal were there, sure. I was hooked to his work from the very start, but I think most will understand what I'm talking about here. He's much more complete today in that regard.

When Rollins did the tope spot at MITB I did have a moment where I stopped and thought "that was pointless" b/c you know it was going to get a pop when he's the heel and Reigns is the babyface. It's def bothersome. But at the same time, that's exactly the iffy stuff I expect from WWE these days, unfortunately. Even by those I "love to watch", like Rollins, for example. Half of this is an example of the fans causing wrestlers to work the way they want, not the other way around. Which is endlessly problematic & not the way wrestling should be done. One complaint I'm usually left w/, even if there are a few areas where this sort of gets blurred and I can cope w/. Reigns at MITB was ruthless, to the point where it was maybe potentially "too" aggressive for a babyface shine, but I thought context provided him some padding. W/the reactions he was getting, however, it could leave the less than informed viewer thinking the opposite. Didn't think Rollins helped him out much by the way he worked the majority of the match.

Cody is exactly right and I've felt this way for a while, although I don't blame the fans as much as I blame WWE for allowing it to happen.

Basically, fans these days are so goddamn ADD and on the whole have VERY unrefined tastes in wrestling. The wrestlers feel like they HAVE to wrestle at a breakneck pace, do a bunch of dives or flashy moves, etc or the fans will just sit there twiddling their thumbs acting like this headlock is the most uninteresting thing they've ever seen.

It's the same way in NXT, with the supposed "Smark" fans who are really just obnoxious shit heads who try and get themselves over at the expense of the match. Go watch Cesaro/Regal from NXT. It sounds like a goddamn library in the Full Sail Arena for the majority of the match, except for a few lame as shit "THIS IS WRESTLING" chants. Cesaro and Regal worked in that traditional grappling/European/hard hitting style that Regal, Finlay, and Benoit worked whenever they faced one another in the 90's and early 00's. Outside of Uncensored 96', those matches all got really solid reactions, in the case of Judgement Day 06' they had the fans on their feet going crazy. Yet when Cesaro and Regal worked that slower, more methodical, grappling style the fans were flat out silent.

It's not just the style of match, it happens during prolonged heel heat segments a lot of times too unless it's a Brock Lesnar match. The majority of fans today just flat out don't understand or appreciate slower, methodical matches. They don't appreciate a heel working a body part on a baby face for 5+ minutes at a time with various holds and strikes. So when wrestlers try and do that, the fans get silent, and the wrestlers generally have to call an audible and crank the pace up to meth head levels to get the fans back into the match.

In Seth Rollins or Kevin Owens case, they have to forgo traditional heel psychology, i.e. never doing crowd pleasing, flashy baby face like moves, because otherwise they won't get over and won't get the spot on the card they deserve.

As sad as it is to say, a heel like Finlay wouldn't work in todays WWE. Fans would crap all over his work and force the Booker's to not use him in prominent matches.

The reason I blame WWE for this is simple: it's WWE's responsibility to educate the fans and prevent things from getting like this. There is a famous story where Vince called a meeting back in 2003 with all of the talent for both Raw/Smackdown and told the guys that the style of wrestling being presented needed to change, that the fans needed to be reeducated to what good wrestling is. The reason for this was that during the AE guys stopped having normal wrestling matches for the most part. Everything was more or less a brawl, multiple matches on every card would end up with the guys brawling through the crowds, using copious amounts of weapons, and just doing very little wrestling in general. Especially in the main events. Vince told the talents it would take tme, but that they needed to reeducate the fans to what wrestling is supposed to be. Using more holds, not using weapons except in special occassions, getting real heat and heels working body parts instead of just back and forth brawling. All that.

Guess what? It worked. The wrestling from late 2002-2007 was the best wrestling WWE has ever presented, and fans really got into it obviously.

That's what WWE should be doing now. Start protecting finishers better. Ban suicide dives and only allow 2-3 guys to do them, and only in big matches. Use a lot more holds. Heels need to cheat to get reactions, not use flashy baby face moves. Ban the spamming of false finishes unless it's a big time match, a PPV main event, world title match, feud blowoff, or WM match. Start matches with real baby face shine and transition into real heat segments that are kicked off with the heel using an underhanded tactic to gain the advantage,

Just basic fundamental stuff. The wrestlers might have to endure a few matches that are great but get no reaction, but that's just the price they need to pay to get back to wrestling smart. It'll help prevent injuries, it'll make the matches 1000x better, and it'll get fans booing/loathing heels and cheering/loving baby faces again.

I can't blame the wrestlers for doing what they are doing. They are just trying to get over and be successful and get noticed. They want their match to get the best reaction, and this is the only way to do it. Lord knows they can't count on good booking, promos cut straight from the heart, and being able to control the character they present to the fans to get over. Doing a bunch of stunts and flashy high spots is basically all guys like Luke Harper, Owens, etc have to get over and be successful. It sucks but it's the truth.

I don't want to speak for @Obfuscation , he might have been saying something completely different this is just how I see the issues in today's style of wrestling.
 

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Watched Zayn/Rollins. Thought it was a lot of fun and Zayn almost getting him with the rollup killed me. You blink and you miss the finish though. I had to rewind it to make sure I didn't miss something else happening, but I didn't. It was just over. Short & fun sprint. *** 1/4

Cesaro/Del Rio was good too. Cesaro's selling is always top notch.
 

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If people honestly think that match is better than Taker/Austin from BL 02 then they need serious mental help.
This coming from someone with "Craziness. Insanity. Stupidity." as their slogan 8*D
 

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Discussion Starter #190
I don't want to speak for @Obfuscation , he might have been saying something completely different this is just how I see the issues in today's style of wrestling.
You hit a lot of points I zero in on. WWE & garnering for a "pop" all co-mingles in the same pool that doesn't do a lot of guys any favors today, largely b/c that's how the company promotes things. You won't get a compelling angle, you'll just get matches involving people and hope they go over well. Sure I'm excited for Zayn vs Rollins on SD, and in this first time case, it works, but imagine if this was put on PPV w/no build and just to have someone like me pop for it, you know? There's got to be more there to truly care. Novelty can only work so far. Zayn vs Nakamura is the goldmine of dream match exception, and that'll probably be their only match for a long time. So that applied. Other things, heck even like Cena vs Styles b/c their angle is trash. All it is is saying "you're getting John Cena vs AJ Styles matches now. Be happy." Fans naturally go w/it b/c they don't care. Luke Harper doing a tope in what feels like every match. Ehhhhhh. That shouldn't be happening.

You brought up the 2002 - 2007 (I usually associate it w/2008 b/c that's when the company went PG, but the pre Benoit scenario makes sense) timeframe and that reminds me of something Raven said when it comes to knowing something is working as a worthwhile investment. I'm watching various stuff from those years lately and to notice the way crowds react are very, very interesting compared to today. We already know those buzzword themed chants aren't around. But there's something else, there's just the idea of heavy stories & heavy themes that seem so much more prominent on competence and not "expect workrate". The way Raven put it is he said how could you know the fans give a damn about your match if all they're chanting are names back and forth near the end of a match? "Lets go Cena/Lets go Styles" just to keep that as a current basis. Instead of, from his POV, fans being so emotionally involved to not give a damn to chant names, but to simply be sucked into an affair and hang on every ebb and flow. That really sticks out to me b/c noticing matches involving popular names in 2007 like Cena or Batista or Mysterio, these fans are rather molten by the finishing stretches. Like holy crap some of these audiences LOVED Batista, it was nuts. They might have gotten their pro chants early in the match, you know feel the connection, crowd wanting to lend their support, etc, etc. Then by the fever pitch, fans knowing this is where it could end at any moment, you weren't hearing chants. You were hearing big booming reactions. Somewhere along the way that changed. It stopped being about the product pulling you in, to now being elsewhere. Match is secondary as long as Reigns gets massive heat, b/c maybe that'll eventually end his push. That type of thinking. Dueling chants b/c people just want to tell the other one that "their guy" lost. "THEY'RE JUST HAVING FUN, MAGGLE". WWE can put over geeky audiences more than lower card guys sometimes. Matches needing more time, guys needing something b/c they "deserve" it. Just a bunch of wacky weird fixations that seem far and away from everything BUT the emotional pull of actually caring about a story behind a match. It strikes me that way far too often and why I'm normally on the outside looking in w/most things WWE tends to produce these days. Plenty of talent there, plenty of favorites of mine signed. Ok, they got me half way. Now what are you going to to do to engage me further. That's what I'm always asking and not seeing enough of.
 

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You hit a lot of points I zero in on. WWE & garnering for a "pop" all co-mingles in the same pool that doesn't do a lot of guys any favors today, largely b/c that's how the company promotes things. You won't get a compelling angle, you'll just get matches involving people and hope they go over well. Sure I'm excited for Zayn vs Rollins on SD, and in this first time case, it works, but imagine if this was put on PPV w/no build and just to have someone like me pop for it, you know? There's got to be more there to truly care. Novelty can only work so far. Zayn vs Nakamura is the goldmine of dream match exception, and that'll probably be their only match for a long time. So that applied. Other things, heck even like Cena vs Styles b/c their angle is trash. All it is is saying "you're getting John Cena vs AJ Styles matches now. Be happy." Fans naturally go w/it b/c they don't care. Luke Harper doing a tope in what feels like every match. Ehhhhhh. That shouldn't be happening.

You brought up the 2002 - 2007 (I usually associate it w/2008 b/c that's when the company went PG, but the pre Benoit scenario makes sense) timeframe and that reminds me of something Raven said when it comes to knowing something is working as a worthwhile investment. I'm watching various stuff from those years lately and to notice the way crowds react are very, very interesting compared to today. We already know those buzzword themed chants aren't around. But there's something else, there's just the idea of heavy stories & heavy themes that seem so much more prominent on competence and not "expect workrate". The way Raven put it is he said how could you know the fans give a damn about your match if all they're chanting are names back and forth near the end of a match? "Lets go Cena/Lets go Styles" just to keep that as a current basis. Instead of, from his POV, fans being so emotionally involved to not give a damn to chant names, but to simply be sucked into an affair and hang on every ebb and flow. That really sticks out to me b/c noticing matches involving popular names in 2007 like Cena or Batista or Mysterio, these fans are rather molten by the finishing stretches. Like holy crap some of these audiences LOVED Batista, it was nuts. They might have gotten their pro chants early in the match, you know feel the connection, crowd wanting to lend their support, etc, etc. Then by the fever pitch, fans knowing this is where it could end at any moment, you weren't hearing chants. You were hearing big booming reactions. Somewhere along the way that changed. It stopped being about the product pulling you in, to now being elsewhere. Match is secondary as long as Reigns gets massive heat, b/c maybe that'll eventually end his push. That type of thinking. Dueling chants b/c people just want to tell the other one that "their guy" lost. "THEY'RE JUST HAVING FUN, MAGGLE". WWE can put over geeky audiences more than lower card guys sometimes. Matches needing more time, guys needing something b/c they "deserve" it. Just a bunch of wacky weird fixations that seem far and away from everything BUT the emotional pull of actually caring about a story behind a match. It strikes me that way far too often and why I'm normally on the outside looking in w/most things WWE tends to produce these days. Plenty of talent there, plenty of favorites of mine signed. Ok, they got me half way. Now what are you going to to do to engage me further. That's what I'm always asking and not seeing enough of.

:clap

I'm 100% in agreement with everything you said. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the change in how crowds react to matches. I miss the days when fans just cheered or boo'd, only chanting a baby faces name on a come back, or on really special occasions getting the "Holy shit!" chant. It makes for SUCH a better viewing experience, seeing crowds pop like crazy for a big counter, or boo the shit out out of a heel. Nowadays we just get endless chants, I fucking hate it why would you pay all this money and just go chant for 3 hours? It's absurd.

I'm so happy you mentioned Harper and the tope's. You were the one who introduced me to Brodie Lee WAYYYY back in the day when he first was on NXT. You had him in your avatar and sent me a bunch of stuff to check out. I became a fan, and then when all the Shield/Wyatts stuff happened I became a REAL big fan of his. He's the best big man in the business right now, hands down. Those dives should be special, I still remember the first time he did it and the crowd went ape. But then he started doing it every match and now it's just another cheap pop spot. I don't even blame Harper for this though. What is he supposed to do? He isn't given any real mic time, or any vignettes or segments to help fans connect. He isn't booked properly, hell his booking flat out sucks. How else is he supposed to get over other than doing eye popping moves? I got really really upset watching the ladder match he had with Ziggler at TLC a few years ago. He and Dolph were being fucking morons, Harper almost broke his arm multiple times and they were just being so reckless and stupid it stopped being fun to watch and just made me legitimately fearful they were gonna seriously hurt themselves. And for what? Who even remembers that match? Nobody talks about it, it meant nothing then and means even less now.

Oh, and don't even get me started on matches just being booked for the sake of booking them without any real thought or creative effort being applied. You are SO right about Zayn/Nakamura being the pinnacle, the ideal way those kind of matches can work. However, that match worked because: 1.) It was Nakamura's debut as a baby face, no matter what fans were gonna go ape for him, 2.) It was Zayn's final NXT match, most people knew it, and as a result that got some extra juice from the fans, and 3.) Because it's, quite literally, the 2 very best wrestlers in the entire world (now that Bryan is retired) facing off with no BS overbooking/scripting of the match, nothing being pre planned at all in fact. You probably know this, but Zayn came out and said he and Nakamura didn't discuss one single thing before going out, they had nothing planned other than Zayn was losing to the Bomaye, and just went out and WRESTLED. That's why it was so refreshing, almost all the great, truly special stuff we get these days occurs when scripts/plans are thrown out and guys just do what they have been trained to do: wrestle.

Cena vs Styles first singles match is, if not a WM main event, AT LEAST a main event of a major PPV. I mean, these are the 2 top baby faces of the 2000-2010 decade essentially, in a match fans never thought they'd get to see. If it's not for the World Title, it at least deserves to be treated as a true main event program, going on last after weeks and weeks of building a good feud. Yet, it gets thrown out there in the mid card of MitB, with Styles booked as unnaturally as possible (I just don't want to see him as a heel right now, makes zero sense when he was getting such strong baby face reactions.)

They do this all the time, and they do it much worse than Cena/Styles. We will get the first ever Zayn/Rollins match just given away with zero buildup on SD! Same with the first Styles/Owens match. Why does WWE feel like giving fans two good wrestlers 15-20 minutes to wrestle on free tv is the way to give fans a good show? I for one would MUCH prefer they just kept things short and sweet for the vast majority of TV matches. Give the main event 15-20 minutes including the commercial break, but the rest of the matches should be no more than 5-10 minutes, pitting the top guys against lower card guys. Then use the guest commentary, interference, or whatever to advance the story's and feuds. Also they shouldn't have Zayn and Rollins and all the top guys wrestling every week. I'm of the opinion guys shouldn't wrestle on TV more than 3 times a month, once in a short squash/sprint and then maybe again in a big tag or something on Raw/SD!, and then once at the monthly PPV. Hell that might even be TOO much for the real main event level talents. Having them wrestle every single week, in competitive matches against guys at the same level they are, just diminishes their importance. Then for the 2 weeks they aren't wrestling, one week can be a promo/vignette, the other week just keep them off TV. No need to see them every single week, it keeps them special.

I mean, would you rather watch: Option 1-Zayn/Rollins first singles match with zero buildup, for 15 minutes, someone wins and someone loses. OR, Option-2 would you rather watch Zayn wrestle an 7-8 minute match against ADR/Big Show, Rollins in a 5-7 minute match against Titus/Neville/Swagger, with Rollins on guest commentary SHREDDING Zayn before he interferes and screws him, and Zayn subsequently returning the favor and coming out from the crowd to cost Rollins his match? Then they wrestle their first singles match, 10-15 minutes max, on PPV.

I just wish WWE realized they have guys capable of being big time stars and that they should be treated as such. Can you imagine Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Brock, etc being booked like this? It's the equivalent of WWE starting the 2002 Brock/Taker feud by having them wrestle for 20 minutes on free TV before Unforgiven 2002. Heyman would have NEVER allowed something like that to happen, and for good reason.
 

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If you guys haven't read yet, they're expanding the PPV schedule once the brand split happens and bringing back some old names. Here's the new schedule (which has been confirmed by multiple sources now)

* WWE SummerSlam, August 21st in Brooklyn (both brands)
* WWE Backlash, September 11th in Richmond (SmackDown event/ WWE Network exclusive)
* WWE Clash of the Champions, September 25th in Indianapolis (RAW event)
* WWE No Mercy, October 9th in Sacramento (SmackDown event)
* WWE Hell In a Cell, October 30th in Boston (RAW event)
* WWE Survivor Series, November 20th in Toronto (both brands)
* WWE TLC, December 4th in Dallas (SmackDown event)
* WWE Roadblock, December 18th in Pittsburgh (RAW event)

Backlash in Richmond. So enticing to make it a trio of PPVs for me on the year. :lol Have to see what the Smackdown roster is first. Hopefully Survivor Series feels more special now. Dallas getting another PPV is a joke and so is doing ANOTHER Roadblock in the same year.

Royal Rumble will be at the Staples Center in L.A. as well.
 

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I still get all warm and fuzzy inside seeing Survivor Series in Toronto. I can't wait for a ticket release date.
 

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WWE taped the first round of the Cruiserweight Classic a couple nights ago. No one really knows what order they're gonna be aired in, but here's the order they taped them in. They'll air weekly starting on July 13th. I believe the semi finals and finals will be live. Haven't seen an actual bracket yet either.

* Gran Metalik (Mascara Dorada) vs. Alejandro Saez
* Ho Ho Lun vs. Ariya Daivari
* Clement Petiot vs. Cedric Alexander
* The Brian Kendrick vs. Raul Mendoza

* Tajiri vs. Damian Slater
* TJ Perkins vs. Da Mack
* Lince Dorado vs. Mustafa Ali
* Akira Tozawa vs. Kenneth Johnson

* Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Tyson Dux
* Drew Gulak vs. Harv Shira
* Tony Nese vs. Anthony Bennett
* Kota Ibushi vs. Sean Maluta

* Rich Swann vs. Jason Lee
* Noam Dar vs. Gurv Shira
* Jack Gallagher vs. Fabian Aichner
* Johnny Gargano vs. Tomasso Ciampa
 

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If you guys haven't read yet, they're expanding the PPV schedule once the brand split happens and bringing back some old names. Here's the new schedule (which has been confirmed by multiple sources now)

* WWE SummerSlam, August 21st in Brooklyn (both brands)
* WWE Backlash, September 11th in Richmond (SmackDown event/ WWE Network exclusive)
* WWE Clash of the Champions, September 25th in Indianapolis (RAW event)
* WWE No Mercy, October 9th in Sacramento (SmackDown event)
* WWE Hell In a Cell, October 30th in Boston (RAW event)
* WWE Survivor Series, November 20th in Toronto (both brands)
* WWE TLC, December 4th in Dallas (SmackDown event)
* WWE Roadblock, December 18th in Pittsburgh (RAW event)
That is ludicrous. 8 PPVs in four months. What the hell is next year going to look like?
 

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Those were some great posts about how WWE has changed their in ring style.

I think the best illustration would be to go and watch Roadblock from earlier in the year. Watch what Triple H does in the ring and then watch what everyone else on the card does. I know there are some differences of opinion on how good he was or is but it's startling when you compare him to everyone else going today. His matches with Ziggler and Ambrose illustrate what wrestling could be like today instead of what we get today.
 

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Those were some great posts about how WWE has changed their in ring style.

I think the best illustration would be to go and watch Roadblock from earlier in the year. Watch what Triple H does in the ring and then watch what everyone else on the card does. I know there are some differences of opinion on how good he was or is but it's startling when you compare him to everyone else going today. His matches with Ziggler and Ambrose illustrate what wrestling could be like today instead of what we get today.
Man I'm so glad you mentioned that Triple H/Ambrose match. A lot of people didn't like it, and that's fine everyone has their own tastes, likes and dislikes. To me though, that match was a breath of fresh air, which is something I NEVER thought I'd ever say about a Triple H match, especially a Triple H match in 2016.

Hunter forced Ambrose to just fucking wrestle. No bullshit, no "Lunatic Cringe", no dumbass nonsensical high spots, just a good, solid, perfectly paced, classically structured, professional wrestling match.

It was by no means an all time classic, ****1/2+ type match. It was just a really really good main event world title match, the type and style of match we used to get multiple times a month in years past. It stood out to me because we just don't see that type of match on a regular basis anymore. We might get a handful, AT MOST, during an entire year. It was like one of those 1993-1995 Bret Hart title defenses against Davey Boy, or Owen, or Hennig, or Waltman. It wasn't as good as those Bret Hart title defenses or anything, but it had the same feel, the same sort of vibe, as those wonderful matches.

That's what I love to see, and I hope maybe the brand split might bring some of that back. I know it'll never happen but, man I could totally see Cesaro being that guy, that no nonsense World Champion who has the impeccable reputation as the best WRESTLER in the world, who had the World Heavyweight Championship BECAUSE he's the best wrestler, and it shows in his work. The kind of champion/character who uses his guile, his experience, and his technical ability to win matches without shenaOxiOxiOxiOxins, without a bunch of unneeded horseshit.

All right, I'm don't ranting and shitting on today's wrestling. I know that's not what people want to read when they come here, and I don't mean to be that negative guy who only shits on stuff and I worry that's what it's coming across as. I just love professional wrestling the way it was done for ages and ages and wish we could get some more of that style, mixed in with the newer fast paced, flashy, spotty, poorly structured type stuff that most people outside this thread seem to love and enjoy these days. That's all. Give me some plain old vanilla or chocolate to go with all this rainbow sprinkles cotton candy birthday cake flavored ice cream.
 

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Oh my God, I just noticed about the existence of a live show on Wednesday w/this card:

John Cena vs. Shinsuke Nakamura
Brock Lesnar vs. Kevin Owens
Charlotte vs. Asuka
I haven't seen a WWE MR show of any kind since WM 32, but I'm down for THAT.
 

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Super Moderator Going Backwards With WF
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Oh my God, I just noticed about the existence of a live show on Wednesday w/this card:

John Cena vs. Shinsuke Nakamura
Brock Lesnar vs. Kevin Owens
Charlotte vs. Asuka
I haven't seen a WWE MR show of any kind since WM 32, but I'm down for THAT.
You're sure that's confirmed as I thought Lesnar would have nothing on his mind exept for training for Mark Hunt tbh.

Can't imagine him having a wrestling match beforehand.
 

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45,092 Posts
Discussion Starter #200
Zayn vs Rollins was fine. Glad it was only sub 8 minutes, keeps it fresh for the future. (and hopefully not simply tonight's RAW) Some neat exchanges, which were to be expected, fans felt quite involved, Zayn nabbed two great nearfalls out of it. The schoolboy one was very believable, even for an exhibition on SD. The downside here being the finish was awful. Zayn hits the tope, rolls Rollins in the ring, who no sells the damage to hit the Pedigree on a whim and get the win. Zapped a lot out of me there. Could have given Zayn another nearfall tease, attempt a sequence there, then have Rollins counter into the finisher to win. T'was dumb the way it panned out.
 
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