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Stopping The Show
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have re-edited this as i rushed through it earlier and didnt make my points clear....

Austin,Rock,Hogan,Cena.... all got to the top through the Fans choosing them not being placed by Vince... yes once theyre was interest shown he may have backed them but they got theyre initially on there own skills and likeability....

Austin,Rock and Hogan stayed on top because fans loved them.....

Cena has remained on top by being marketed as the epitomy of the word Babyface... Super Nice, Super Smiley, Super Likeable, Super cool and Fashionable, Super kind, Super Caring, Super Hero..... every qaulity there is for a young kid or teen to like in a role model man he has it.

So for people saying that he will turn heel once a biogger draw or more liked superstar comes along to take his place.... this wont happen! it isnt possible for any other superstar to be anywhere near as appealing to the majority fanbase than John Cenas character.... and the other difference is people could grow bored of austin and rock and vince would allow whoever was becoming big at the time to shine....

He will not allow the cash cow that is CEna to fade soo will just come up wiht another way to make him even more likeable to his majority fans by making a brighter t shirt or cooler catchphrase for him...

Cena needs to turn heel for any other Superstar to take his place... he needs to be so hated the next guy whoever it is becomes instantly SUPER likeable and inherits some of Cena qaulities that the kids and teens love.
 

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Stopping The Show
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
its not how it usually works and im not saying turn cena heel a dont give a crap a actually dont mind him how he is..

What im just sayings is its a common thing on here to say until someone outdraws him then he will remain top babyface......

Nut the difference between him and the likes of Austin and others before is that..... his character is the epitomy of babyface everything about him is likeable to kids and teens from appearance clothing colours attitude corny lines... anti bullying hero.... and for someone to outdraw him they would need to be basically be superman himself.

So in other words he needs to be made the opposite of what he is right now and give someone else the rub with similar qaulities for the kids and teens attentions to turn off cena and onto whoever they choose.
 

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Premium Member
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No, no that's not the case.

We all do know that wrestling is fixed right? Vince ultimately decides who goes over. Booking is everything. Someone else can get put into more meaningful feuds then the feuds they set up for Cena but it just doesn't happen. Look at the WWE Championship, the most prestigious belt in Professional Wrestling. Cena vs. Michael Cole got a better spot on the program then it last night (regardless of who's holding the title).

John Cena is booked to "be" Professional Wrestling. Everything/Everyone else is just a prop and a stepping stone to making him bigger. It doesn't have to be that way but it is.

The End.
 

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Best In The World
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its going to happen on the 1000th episode of raw bank on it!!!
 

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Stopping The Show
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
No, no that's not the case.

We all do know that wrestling is fixed right? Vince ultimately decides who goes over. Booking is everything. Someone else can get put into more meaningful feuds then the feuds they set up for Cena but it just doesn't happen. Look at the WWE Championship, the most prestigious belt in Professional Wrestling. Cena vs. Michael Cole got a better spot on the program then it last night (regardless of who's holding the title).

John Cena is booked to "be" Professional Wrestling. Everything/Everyone else is just a prop and a stepping stone to making him bigger. It doesn't have to be that way but it is.

The End.

thats exactly my point he is booked to be the ultimate babyface.... so when people say he will turn heel when someone outdraws him aint gonna happen as he is booooked as the ultimate most likeable babyface.... how are u managing to try to argue my point with a point that is actually backing up mine ?

sooo its a vicious circle aslong as he is drawing enough for the company theyll continue to keep him where he is and not bother pushing someone else.... at the same time no one will then be able to take his place aslong as he is the top babyface.... and if he gets injured they will be left with a huge void.
 

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I agree with the OP actually, for people saying it's because of how he's booked, well WHY is he booked in this manner? Because Vinceypoo knows he's guaranteed income from the casuals and younger fans.

Now if he was to turn heel these people would obviously turn on him, but not on the product altogether. You need to remember that for that majority of the audience these days still about cheering the faces against the heels, not everyone's a smark. Kayfabe isn't completely dead, obviously people know it's fake but most people can supend their disbelief as if they were watching a film. The audience would stick around just to show their hate (or disapproval at least) for Cena, and cheer his opponent.

If John Cena turns heel with some dastardly deed, he would instantly become the most hated man in WWE, and whoever challenged him be it Punk or Sheamus or whoever, they would be the new hero. Right away. I'd put money on it actually.
 

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The Winds of Change
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5,627 Posts
I do agree actually – but I agree from the stand point of what a Cena heel turn would do for the overall story that WWE is trying to present. A Cena heel turn creates the true, top villain character that WWE is, and has been so desperately lacking for so long, which will open the opportunity for the next guy to step up and dethrone him. Whether that guy is CM Punk, whether it's Sheamus, whether it's Daniel Bryan, or hell whether it's someone like Ryback - the point is the top heel needs to have the credibility and be a true threat or else the rising babyface’s struggle is half assed and will not establish him in that top spot.

In this case with Cena, it is very similar in concept to when Hulk Hogan turned on everyone and formed the nWo. The top dog…the poster boy…evolved into the power obsessed and corrupt villain who no longer cared about the fans or being the upholder of good in wrestling fantasy land. That is what births the opportunity – the opportunity for a new hero to work and prepare himself to overthrow him, and become that draw – the draw people want to pay to see him overcome the villain. It’s simple, time tested, good vs. evil storytelling, and WWE has really lost sight of it; your babyfaces are only as strong as your heels.

No heel in WWE’s current landscape is even remotely close to Cena’s level, so no one is ever worried whether Cena will be able to overcome…because he always does. No heel until Brock Lesnar. It was the perfect example to use, because Lesnar IS bigger than Cena, and look what it did for the whole program. I was there live at Extreme Rules, and hell, he fucking won over the Chicago crowd to get behind him. The same Chicago crowd that gave him the most heat he has received in recent memory just under a year prior at MITB and hated him. He got those haters behind him to cheer for him. And really, it wasn't Cena's doing - it was Lesnar's.

Lesnar brought back that element of awe and fear heavyweights used to carry, and look and what it did for that build and match. People really did not think Cena had a chance to win. And Brock delivered by dominating Cena. It was such a believable match flow, and honestly a lot of people didn't have as big of a problem with Cena winning, because he was truly the 'hero in peril' and had the fans behind him to try and fight through. John Cena CAN carry that same aura Lesnar had at Extreme Rules, of a mega heel, because he HAS the credibility and legitimacy to do so.

Now many people will always point back to Triple H from 2000 all the way through 2006, and how incredible of a heel he was during that period, saying that that is how a top heel should be made and booked. And that is indeed one of the ways that a top heel can be successfully created. But that character, through both renditions of it (McMahon/Helmsley and Evolution), took years of commitment and complete backing from WWE to constantly always have the deck stacked in his favor. And in addition he definitively beat guys who tried to oppose him. Since WWE hasn’t committed to a heel in that way since Triple H, the other route to go is turning your biggest star to fill that void. Both ways to create that top villain have proven to be successful, just as long as the end result has the power stacked in their favor and a true struggle must be created for the new hero to overcome.

Until that is achieved, WWE’s overall product will continue to lack and the main event picture will continue to be subpar and dry. I said it above but I will say it again - your babyfaces are only as strong as your heels.
 

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Banned
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Lol since 2004 there have been a million turn Cena heel proposals and each day we grow closer and closer but now its just probability that yes he will turn heel someday.
 

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I do agree actually – but I agree from the stand point of what a Cena heel turn would do for the overall story that WWE is trying to present. A Cena heel turn creates the true, top villain character that WWE is, and has been so desperately lacking for so long, which will open the opportunity for the next guy to step up and dethrone him. Whether that guy is CM Punk, whether it's Sheamus, whether it's Daniel Bryan, or hell whether it's someone like Ryback - the point is the top heel needs to have the credibility and be a true threat or else the rising babyface’s struggle is half assed and will not establish him in that top spot.

In this case with Cena, it is very similar in concept to when Hulk Hogan turned on everyone and formed the nWo. The top dog…the poster boy…evolved into the power obsessed and corrupt villain who no longer cared about the fans or being the upholder of good in wrestling fantasy land. That is what births the opportunity – the opportunity for a new hero to work and prepare himself to overthrow him, and become that draw – the draw people want to pay to see him overcome the villain. It’s simple, time tested, good vs. evil storytelling, and WWE has really lost sight of it; your babyfaces are only as strong as your heels.

No heel in WWE’s current landscape is even remotely close to Cena’s level, so no one is ever worried whether Cena will be able to overcome…because he always does. No heel until Brock Lesnar. It was the perfect example to use, because Lesnar IS bigger than Cena, and look what it did for the whole program. I was there live at Extreme Rules, and hell, he fucking won over the Chicago crowd to get behind him. The same Chicago crowd that gave him the most heat he has received in recent memory just under a year prior at MITB and hated him. He got those haters behind him to cheer for him. And really, it wasn't Cena's doing - it was Lesnar's.

Lesnar brought back that element of awe and fear heavyweights used to carry, and look and what it did for that build and match. People really did not think Cena had a chance to win. And Brock delivered by dominating Cena. It was such a believable match flow, and honestly a lot of people didn't have as big of a problem with Cena winning, because he was truly the 'hero in peril' and had the fans behind him to try and fight through. John Cena CAN carry that same aura Lesnar had at Extreme Rules, of a mega heel, because he HAS the credibility and legitimacy to do so.

Now many people will always point back to Triple H from 2000 all the way through 2006, and how incredible of a heel he was during that period, saying that that is how a top heel should be made and booked. And that is indeed one of the ways that a top heel can be successfully created. But that character, through both renditions of it (McMahon/Helmsley and Evolution), took years of commitment and complete backing from WWE to constantly always have the deck stacked in his favor. And in addition he definitively beat guys who tried to oppose him. Since WWE hasn’t committed to a heel in that way since Triple H, the other route to go is turning your biggest star to fill that void. Both ways to create that top villain have proven to be successful, just as long as the end result has the power stacked in their favor and a true struggle must be created for the new hero to overcome.

Until that is achieved, WWE’s overall product will continue to lack and the main event picture will continue to be subpar and dry. I said it above but I will say it again - your babyfaces are only as strong as your heel.
This. THIS. 100% agree. Cena is indeed the key to the future of the WWE, but not as a babyface - as the top heel. People who say the top guy being a heel can't draw is an idiot. That's HOW you draw. Individuals don't draw (except maybe Cena's stale character), rivalries draw.

Cena has overstayed his welcome as a babyface and is beyond dry and played out. If anything, he would breathe new life into his character by heel turning, and as a result extend his career longer with the eventual babyface "re-turn".
 

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Munster Mash
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Until WWE/Universe decides it's time for a new guy to step up. As long as different shirts are constantly being made, Universe is going to buy it. WWE needs to push someone else, and the Universe needs to be receptive of them for Cena to bow out.
 

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The Winds of Change
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5,627 Posts
This. THIS. 100% agree. Cena is indeed the key to the future of the WWE, but not as a babyface - as the top heel. People who say the top guy being a heel can't draw is an idiot. That's HOW you draw. Individuals don't draw (except maybe Cena's stale character), rivalries draw.

Cena has overstayed his welcome as a babyface and is beyond dry and played out. If anything, he would breathe new life into his character by heel turning, and as a result extend his career longer with the eventual babyface "re-turn".
Thanks man. I do agree with what you said above about people saying heels can't draw. A dominant heel being the focus of the product for an extended period of time proves to be extremely effective because it lays the ground work for WHY the emerging babyface is needed. The programs that can come from having a credible mega heel are what build compelling stories and, compelling stories are what draw. A dominant Cena heel run, where he does as he pleases and doesn't do any of it for the "Universe" would only make the opportunity that much bigger.
 

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It will be a very long time until there is a bigger draw than John Cena. That man is simply on a whole other level. Hell, even the Rock himself lost the war of words to him! I think John Cena is fine where he is at. He is the Hulk Hogan of the modern era and in some ways even surpassed him. People can't just come along overnight and take his place
 

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I resent this idea that John Cena is actually a role model for anyone. If kids grow up acting, behaving, talking, and generally living like John Cena, then I have a serious fear for the future of the Earth.

I will make sure my kids understand that wrestling is fake, and just for entertainment purposes. Then I will make sure they idolize people who are actually good entertainers. They will idolize a man/woman who can act, speak, and doesn't parade around like a retard. If my children ever get in the entertainment business, I will make sure they understand John Cena is a terrible over-actor with unbelievable facial expressions who can not sell a move whether he's delivering it or taking it. If my kids enjoy wrestling, I will make sure they understand how John Cena destroyed a beautiful sport with his phony, ridiculous character and his immense lack of talent and skill.

They will understand John Cena is the greatest anomaly in wrestling history: that he was cheered and supported and loved despite all his blatant below-average qualities because people are stupid. Much like how music has gotten shittier with so many no-talent hacks, and television shows have gotten shittier with so many no-talent actors, and movies are no longer greatly written pieces where great actors and singers perform and portray endearing characters who reach us on a more human level, and just like how wrestling got shittier because we had to have Cena begin and end RAW far too many times, and all the talent and storylines that otherwise might have been had RAW not been "The John Cena Show" for so long.

But I won't have to tell my kids all this, because they will be smart enough to see it for themselves. John Cena sucks. It's impossible to watch RAW now because his face is on it, and his shitty mic work, his shitty in-ring work, his shitty facial expressions, and his generally shitty, douchebag qualities.
 

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Sheamus, Ziggler, Swagger, Rhodes, D-Bry, Dibiase, Cesaro, Barrett, Sandow and Del Rio all have the potential to be as big as Austin or Rock. They have the look, name, personality, talent. WWE just refuses to push them, except for Sheamus and D-Bry. Sheamus is the WWE's next big face, and D-Bry and Del Rio are the WWE's next big heel.

Most importantly, they all have appeal outside of the ring.

Swagger and Ziggler are both the most entertaining Superstars out there right now; they can put on one hell of a show. If it weren't for Vickie giving them negative heat, they could be drawing in a much larger crowd just for their in ring ability.
 
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