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The Sundance Kid
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

I want to see a Tarantino movie where these pathetic incels with delusions of grandeur who think they're political revolutionaries because they can recite fringe political nonsense and shoot unarmed innocent people get their heads repeatedly crushed against the wall by Brad Pitt.

Or at least a Brad Pitt type.
 

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NBA
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Great, another one of those "give me a cause" dudes who jump between poser socialism and fascism at the drop of a hat depending on their paranoia of the year. The only thing that matches their silly extremism is their fickleness.
 

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Fearless University Graduate
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

It's crazy that there's often so many excuses made for these people. They're total scumbags simple as that.

Also crazy that Trump is talking about how we have to stop the hate when he's a hate monger.
 

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The Sundance Kid
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Do we really need to call it "excuse making" to say a mass murderer is mentally ill? I think Charles Manson was mentally ill. Doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions. That's not making an excuse, it's describing reality. People need to be able to describe reality without this nonsensical, nonproductive backlash. So we're supposed to say that people who are capable of murdering a bunch of innocents are perfectly healthy and just happen to be evil for no discernible reason? Pretty sure no psychologist would agree with that, and ignoring reality helps absolutely no one, regardless of how self-righteous it makes you feel. It's like giving yourself a pat on the back for NOT murdering someone. How terribly vain.
 

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Re: El Paso Mall Shooting. 20 DEAD, 26 Injured... WHEN WILL IT END?!

A type of mass shooting that goes virtually unnoticed and not cared about.




Mass shootings have been going on before Trump was even President, some of the worst ones happened before he took office. We have no idea why the Vegas shooter did what he did. A lot of the mass shootings weren't even for racial reasons and many of the shooters come from all different types of backgrounds and ethnicties.

How do we eliminate the violence when it's soaked into our media, entertainment and life styles? How does one eliminate gun culture when it's far beyond simple Second Amendment rhetoric and has turned cities and neighborhoods into war zones?

If we really want to go back in history we can go to the early 1900's- 1930's where gang warfare, cop killing and shootouts were common. Where the media celebrated people like Bonnie and Clyde. Before them, people like Jessie James. This problem is more than a century old. It touches everyone's lives and as America because more multicultural/Ethnic, whatever you want to call it, those people have also become willing participants in the culture.

So I'm serious, from a big picture standpoint, how does one fix this old problem? Because people seem to not get enough of violence.
Maybe first accept and know, that this doesn't happen in other 1st world countries. Countries where there is plenty of glorification of violence in media happens all the time. Throughout history and continuing.

The authorities don't want to even take the first step in tackling the gun culture you speak of it seems - leaders that represent people and that influence their citizens need to speak out and say it's not acceptable. Not just talk either, put actions behind those words. If more and more do it then you start to get change. It can be done.

But first, the acceptance that there is a huge problem surrounding this, not a knee-jerk defensive reaction that so many have. Guns need to be detached from blind patriotism over time for a start. The ability to handle huge rifles have nothing to do with loving your country. The continued normalisation of guns makes these public shootings more likely and the proof is in the pudding.
 

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Re: El Paso Mall Shooting. 20 DEAD, 26 Injured... WHEN WILL IT END?!

Another day, another shooting.

Let me sum up what will happen.

Excuses will be made, thoughts and prayers will be sent, and nothing will be done.

See you in a few weeks at the next one.

 

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Re: El Paso Mall Shooting... WHEN WILL IT END! 18 DEAD, Dozens Injured

I sometimes wonder how do I live in basically a second or third world country and this kind of stuff doesn't happen. Sure, here is not a safe place or anything like that, but I can assure you that it is very unlikely that I get killed in a mass gathering of people by a fucking maniac who basically has guns that are used in wars or by the military. I see this from the outside and think that it is really easy to stop that, simply don't sell guns to people unless it is really necessary. I still remember that Bowling for Columbine documentary, I was astonished that you can basically get a gun as a gift for opening a bank account, I mean seriously? There is something really fucked up in America
Uh... it's very unlikely for you to be killed in America by a mass shooter. The population of the U.S. is about 330,000,000. Last year 387 were killed in mass shootings.

That means if you live in the U.S., there is a .000001 chance that your death will be caused by a mass shooting.
 

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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Do we really need to call it "excuse making" to say a mass murderer is mentally ill? I think Charles Manson was mentally ill. Doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions. That's not making an excuse, it's describing reality. People need to be able to describe reality without this nonsensical, nonproductive backlash. So we're supposed to say that people who are capable of murdering a bunch of innocents are perfectly healthy and just happen to be evil for no discernible reason? Pretty sure no psychologist would agree with that, and ignoring reality helps absolutely no one, regardless of how self-righteous it makes you feel. It's like giving yourself a pat on the back for NOT murdering someone. How terribly vain.
The point is not to blame it solely on mental illness. I've said it before and I'll say it again but there are a wealth of studies out there that show mentally ill people are less likely to commit violence. It's an easy way out to stop at mental illness and go no further when trying to address the problem.

The loud voices talking about this within society need to be very, very careful on correlating these horrific events with 'mental illness' as a whole. To stigmatise mental conditions even further would be a disaster and completely unfair to people diagnosed with depression and anxiety for example. It will create more disenfranchised people which is never a good thing.

A big factor here is the continued normalisation of these public shootings. Monkey see Monkey do. Mix that with the US love affair with guns and the equivalent fear of other people shooting you, is anyone really surprised?
 

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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

What libs and anti-gun advocates don't understand is that these shootings inspire more law abiding citizens to want to buy a gun.
 

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Won't shut up about Peyton Royce
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Re: El Paso Mall Shooting... WHEN WILL IT END! 18 DEAD, Dozens Injured

Uh... it's very unlikely for you to be killed in America by a mass shooter. The population of the U.S. is about 330,000,000. Last year 387 were killed in mass shootings.

That means if you live in the U.S., there is a .000001 chance that your death will be caused by a mass shooting.
I am 28 years old, do you know how many mass shootings we have had here in that period? 1. So I guess my chances would still be worse in America.

Another day, another shooting.

Let me sum up what will happen.

Excuses will be made, thoughts and prayers will be sent, and nothing will be done.

See you in a few weeks at the next one.

At this rate "weeks" is fairly optimistic
 

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Magic, sparkles and Strap-ons!
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14,329 Posts
Re: El Paso Mall Shooting. 20 DEAD, 26 Injured... WHEN WILL IT END?!

Maybe first accept and know, that this doesn't happen in other 1st world countries. Countries where there is plenty of glorification of violence in media happens all the time. Throughout history and continuing.

The authorities don't want to even take the first step in tackling the gun culture you speak of it seems - leaders that represent people and that influence their citizens need to speak out and say it's not acceptable. Not just talk either, put actions behind those words. If more and more do it then you start to get change. It can be done.

But first, the acceptance that there is a huge problem surrounding this, not a knee-jerk defensive reaction that so many have. Guns need to be detached from blind patriotism over time for a start. The ability to handle huge rifles have nothing to do with loving your country. The continued normalisation of guns makes these public shootings more likely and the proof is in the pudding.
It's not like there aren't other countries that have lax views on guns like America has and they don't struggle with mass shootings like we do. Before the Christchurch shooting there doesn't seem to be a huge history of it in NZ. The man who committed the action was inspired by other terrorist attacks, not because NZ sold semi-auto rifles.

So why is this an American issue and not really an issue for others? Even in Mexico with cartel killings, mass shootings while they happen mostly have a direct purpose. They're targeting rivals etc. Even when the cartels have killed American citizens it's been fairly calculated, our shootings are much more random and don't always share a common goal.

This means unless America changes it's entire culture and I don't mean some light gun control but an overhaul of our media, entertainment, views on guns and our direct reaction to hostility, preconceived or otherwise. Then these shootings will continue to happen.

I don't expect anything to change, why? Because every Nation gets used to the things that happen within it. South America is used to Cartel violence, Italy is used to mafia violence, parts of Europe are getting used to upsurges in rape. The UK has quite a lot of knife related violence and the Government turns a blind eye to grooming gangs and mass molestation. India has major rape issues, Mid East, even in the civil areas kills homosexuals and tolerates abuse to women and Islamic terror. The list goes on.


Now before anyone implies anything, I'm simply saying every Nation has it's things that make everyone go "What the fuck is wrong with that place?" yet not many do anything. The people get used to it. The same will happen with the US and these shootings, it will be like drive by shootings or a typical day in Chiraq etc, nobody will care. :shrug
 

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Re: El Paso Mall Shooting... WHEN WILL IT END! 18 DEAD, Dozens Injured

I am 28 years old, do you know how many mass shootings we have had here in that period? 1. So I guess my chances would still be worse in America.
Be that as it may, it's still highly unlikely. Don't get me wrong it's fucking sickening to see it happening more and more, but the odds of you being killed in a mass shooting here in the states is about the same as being struck by lightning. These stories just get more national coverage which creates more hysteria.

Drunk drivers kill more than 10,000 americans every year but the only reason that's not a national discussion is because neither political party has anything invested in it.
 

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Magic, sparkles and Strap-ons!
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Do we really need to call it "excuse making" to say a mass murderer is mentally ill? I think Charles Manson was mentally ill. Doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions. That's not making an excuse, it's describing reality. People need to be able to describe reality without this nonsensical, nonproductive backlash. So we're supposed to say that people who are capable of murdering a bunch of innocents are perfectly healthy and just happen to be evil for no discernible reason? Pretty sure no psychologist would agree with that, and ignoring reality helps absolutely no one, regardless of how self-righteous it makes you feel. It's like giving yourself a pat on the back for NOT murdering someone. How terribly vain.
Son of Sam had a dog talking to him, he killed people, pretty sure he was mentally ill, chef jeff, bundy, Zodiac, all of them.

Mentally ill people while many are harmless can cause great violence and show no empathy for others or any remorse. Mentally ill people can be very calculating and pull off complex plans.

I have no idea why people think mentally ill people are retarded and just run around flailing their arms in the air like crazy people. In reality, most don't. The most dangerous ones tend to be loners and go under the radar.

Has anyone said that mental illness is sorely to blame for these actions? The biggest reason mentally ill people do these things is because they cannot tell fantasy from reality, it's why you always have someone imitating what they see on tv, in games etc while 99.9% of the population knows it's nothing. There's a reason why people who are ill get afraid and create elaborate fantasies in which they MUST take action or people are out to get them. They literally believe in what they're doing.
 

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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Son of Sam had a dog talking to him, he killed people, pretty sure he was mentally ill, chef jeff, bundy, Zodiac, all of them.

Mentally ill people while many are harmless can cause great violence and show no empathy for others or any remorse. Mentally ill people can be very calculating and pull off complex plans.

I have no idea why people think mentally ill people are retarded and just run around flailing their arms in the air like crazy people. In reality, most don't. The most dangerous ones tend to be loners and go under the radar.

Has anyone said that mental illness is sorely to blame for these actions? The biggest reason mentally ill people do these things is because they cannot tell fantasy from reality, it's why you always have someone imitating what they see on tv, in games etc while 99.9% of the population knows it's nothing. There's a reason why people who are ill get afraid and create elaborate fantasies in which they MUST take action or people are out to get them. They literally believe in what they're doing.
Sounds like lack of parenting, lack of guidance and lack of values to me.

Parents are either complete fucking losers who don't give a shit or they wanna be their child's best friend and don't instill any tough love. By the time these children reach adulthood they're confused and unable to cope with their problems.

Make no mistake, these mass shootings are acts of cowardice. These are selfish brats who are lonely and angry and want others to share in their misery.
 

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The Mouth of Madness!
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Do we really need to call it "excuse making" to say a mass murderer is mentally ill? People need to be able to describe reality without this nonsensical, nonproductive backlash. So we're supposed to say that people who are capable of murdering a bunch of innocents are perfectly healthy and just happen to be evil for no discernible reason?
Here's one of the questions that comes from situations like these.

"Why are white men NEVER classified as terrorists?"

That's one of the big questions that gets asked and yet no one wants to give a straightforward answer. These tragedies happen year after year and we see the same patterns every time. Either he's either a white supremacist/nationalist or angry about his social standing with the fairer sex. But no matter his camp, he most often has a criminal history, manifesto or a very telling social media presence (racist/sexist posts, links to club websites), etc. Then he decides to act and suddenly he's mentally ill.

These guys go out into public with a mission of causing pain and spreading the message of their ideals and beliefs through violence and fear, yet because of the color of their skin they're not called terrorists. Why is that?

These guys have a message, they use violence and fear, they kill as many people as they can as fast as they can, and they are prepared to die when doing so. So again, why are monsters like Elliot Rogers, El Paso, Dayton Ohio, Garlic Festival, Sandy Hook, Dark Knight Rises Shooter, Vegas Shooter, Waffle House Shooter, etc etc etc., NOT called terrorists? Why does the matter of their skin color dictate what label they're given?
 

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Baby It's Violence
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

I mean, given that the overwhelming majority of the people in this county wouldn't think to commit a mass shooting, plus the actual mindset you need to have to think about and plan such a catastrophe, I don't see how you can't just call these type of people mentally ill.

And mentally ill is NOT supposed to cover up anything to act as an excuse. I consider them mentally ill because it takes a truly sick, depraved, messed up in the head individual to go out and commit this sort of act.

Here's one of the questions that comes from situations like these.

"Why are white men NEVER classified as terrorists?"

That's one of the big questions that gets asked and yet no one wants to give a straightforward answer. These tragedies happen year after year and we see the same patterns every time. Either he's either a white supremacist/nationalist or angry about his social standing with the fairer sex. But no matter his camp, he most often has a criminal history, manifesto or a very telling social media presence (racist/sexist posts, links to club websites), etc. Then he decides to act and suddenly he's mentally ill.

These guys go out into public with a mission of causing pain and spreading the message of their ideals and beliefs through violence and fear, yet because of the color of their skin they're not called terrorists. Why is that?

These guys have a message, they use violence and fear, they kill as many people as they can as fast as they can, and they are prepared to die when doing so. So again, why are monsters like Elliot Rogers, El Paso, Dayton Ohio, Garlic Festival, Sandy Hook, Dark Knight Rises Shooter, Vegas Shooter, Waffle House Shooter, etc etc etc., NOT called terrorists? Why does the matter of their skin color dictate what label they're given?
It doesn't, or it shouldn't anyway.

I've never focused on that aspect of it because I don't think race is really important in this scenario. What is important is that these events continue to happen, they are continually hyped up by every media outlet, everybody says we should be doing something, politicians say they'll do something, nothing gets done, and we get this happening again.

I feel like trying to figure out labeling them is a waste of time in my eyes, a fight that shouldn't really be bothered with. In my eyes he could be black, white, gay, transgendered, hell he could have 3 dicks and be purple. All I care about is that he is a sick mentally ill murderer, and these keep happening in places we don't expect to be in fear for our lives. That is enough of a problem for me.
 

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The Mouth of Madness!
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

But the way these acts get classified changes the way they are handled and investigated. If we can get some of that counter terrorism money and use it to monitor the web traffic these hub sites get, maybe we can curb these acts. Put people on urban terrorism lists can go hand in hand with background checks to keep heavy weaponry out of these people's hands.
 

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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Yeah but the answer is to focus more on mental health in other cases of murder, not to dismiss mental health concerns when the murderer is white to be "fair". That's like saying the answer to wealth inequality is to make rich people poorer oh wait that is what people think the answer is. :lol
Of course redistribution of wealth via taxes is the answer. You need to spend it smartly on health care and education. Just changing the laws in these sectors would lead to a re-distribution of wealth by stopping the pharma/insurance and gun law/military sectors from milking the American society dry.

Free college education would allow far more people of all areas of society to improve their standard of living. Of course that would require a desire to create such a more level playing field.
 

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The Sundance Kid
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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Here's one of the questions that comes from situations like these.

"Why are white men NEVER classified as terrorists?"
Such an important question about an issue that when tackled will help exactly zero people and save exactly zero lives. Classifying lone wolf fringe weirdos as terrorists isn't going to change how the government counters them because there is no organized network to counter-act. 4chan/Twitter incels are not Al-Qaeda. There is no grand conspiracy of young white men getting together and killing people.

Who fucking cares what buzz words the media uses? Fuck 'em. They're all liars and crooks anyway.

The virtue signaling has got to stop. "Let's start calling white mass shooters terrorists! That'll change...something!" No. People just say this shit to feel woke and self-righteous. Doesn't accomplish a damn thing.
 

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Re: Mass Shooting in Dayton, Ohio, Kills at Least 9

Son of Sam had a dog talking to him, he killed people, pretty sure he was mentally ill, chef jeff, bundy, Zodiac, all of them.

Mentally ill people while many are harmless can cause great violence and show no empathy for others or any remorse. Mentally ill people can be very calculating and pull off complex plans.

I have no idea why people think mentally ill people are retarded and just run around flailing their arms in the air like crazy people. In reality, most don't. The most dangerous ones tend to be loners and go under the radar.

Has anyone said that mental illness is sorely to blame for these actions? The biggest reason mentally ill people do these things is because they cannot tell fantasy from reality, it's why you always have someone imitating what they see on tv, in games etc while 99.9% of the population knows it's nothing. There's a reason why people who are ill get afraid and create elaborate fantasies in which they MUST take action or people are out to get them. They literally believe in what they're doing.
All of this can also be said for quote unquote regular people. People do not need to have mental health problems to hurt others (as we know them, or at least acknowledge them) Some people can be put in big positions of power abuse that position and commit violence. Others feel like they are so totally disenfranchised and threatened it's natural to lash out.

I think you're assuming a lot too when it comes to your summation of mental illness either, it's more complicated than that.
 
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