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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
NJPW, ECW or ROH, i can make a legit case for either.
There's WAY too much emphasis on the sports aspect of NJPW, not much in the way of angles or character work, there's no balance at all.
ECW was ok, i felt like they had a good flow with their shows, but people blow It out of proportions, there's nothing compelling or larger than life about fat jobbers like Raven and The Sandman, it was far from the ideal pro wrestling experience. It also has the biggest cult following which doesn't help their case.
ROH, historically is a little bit of both (i don't follow it anymore), and the thing that puts it over the top are the 45 minute fake epic matches, and long winded amateur hour promos, with bland overrated fucks like Bryan Danielson and Austin Aries stinking up the joint.
ROH is the lock for n.1 for my taste.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You know what, with milions of people enjoying it from 06 and on, you have a point. But you have to take into account they have a large contengent of casual fans and kid fans, It's not an even playing field.
 

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Honestly, I can't find any overrated companies. It is a matter of taste. Many of us started watching wrestling when we were children with WWF or ECW. From there, everyone has been looking for what they like about each company and following the one they like best. There are many companies that do not know the vast majority and many wrestlers that we are free, that we also have our market niche but I don't think that's why we have to talk about overvalued companies.
 

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LU for me. It was pretty much a ripoff of WMAC masters. And the fans invading the WWE and TNA boards even when they made a board for them was annoying as hell.
 

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ECW is the only defunct company that still holds up today, at least as far as the 96/96 season. And yes, Raven and Dreamer WERE larger than life. They captured the spirit of the decade years before Steve did it on a larger platform.
 

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There is no such thing as overrated companies in wrestling. All wrestling promotions have highs and lows so it is a matter of taste.
 

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F*** This indy flippy shit
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AEW. A company built around Stardust, his wife and the his Elite geek buddies pretending to be serious execs. Add in a 50 year old Y2J, a roster full of the most smaller than life indy flippy shit spot monkies you could find and Ambrose. People are acting like it’s the greatest can’t miss company they’ve ever seen and will put Vince out of business before they’ve even had a year to prove themselves capable of pulling network ratings. The definition of overrated.
 

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AEW :reigns
This is the only answer. An organization of one star (Moxley) and a bunch of geeks is not going to compete with Vince

To add for underrated: WCW. Everyone always talks about how they ended but the NWO angle saved wrestling. It got Vince to up his game and brought on another golden age
 

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AEW has already exceeded expectations in terms of ticket sales so they wouldn't in be conversation.

LU is good shout actually. They had tv deal, were beloved online and yet didn't make any money.
 

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For me, its ECW.

Don't get me wrong. They had an energy that was infectious and a style that was all its own, and it was very influential on the major companies like WWF and WCW during the Monday Night Wars.

However, I also feel like it started a lot of the bad trends that have persisted to the modern age. Finisher fests, no psychology in matches, and high spots for the sake of high spots. And that's to say nothing for things like the Mass Transit Incident.

I enjoyed ECW for what it was. It had some hot angles and characters, and its low rent appearance gave it its charm. It was like the strip club of pro wrestling, and I mean that in a good way.

But when people back in the late 90s were saying to me that Justin Credible was better than Stone Cold Steve Austin, or that the Blue World Order was hilarious, or that guys like Foley were sellouts for daring to leave ECW, I just kind of scratch my head.

It was a niche product made for a niche audience and it had its charm, and people certainly ripped it off and presented it with better production, but on a week to week basis, it wasn't the grand be-all, end-all that people claimed it was at the time.

As I've always said about ECW. It looks INCREDIBLE in highlight packages, but if you try to absorb all of it, it isn't as good as people remember it to be.

And another one:

ROH in the Mid 2000s = Online, speaking ill of ROH at this time was kind of like outing yourself as an idiot or a nonbeliever. Everything ROH did was the greatest thing ever, and if you didn't agree, you were just wrong, and you were better off just watching the more simple minded products like WWE and TNA.

Every ROH main event seemed to get 4 stars or higher and everything they did was absolutely amazing. Again, I don't want to speak too harshly about it as a great number of talents came out of ROH at one point or another. AJ, Bryan, Joe, Daniels, Nigel, Owens, Zayn, Seth, and I could go on and on.

HOWEVER, my biggest issue with ROH during this time is that every show looked the goddamn same. It was basically an American attempt at replicating Japanese wrestling, but unfortunately, they interpreted that to mean "Have everybody go out there and have athletic high spot/finisher kickout matches all show long". Every time I tried to watch a show from about 2004 to 2008, I'd feel the same way: "Wow, that opening match was pretty good...okay that second match looked the same....and then the third match..." and by the 4th match, I'd be just tired of it to the point that I'd be begging for Hacksaw Jim Duggan to come out and just do his schtick, just to give me a break from the same match over and over and over again. I mean when it gets to a point where a 450 splash is no longer impressive because everybody can do it, then you have a problem. I found the best way to digest ROH programming was through Best of DVDs and simply skipping to the big matches and main events.

But it was a company that fed right into the mindset online of chasing star ratings and getting Meltzer to give them high scores rather than having engaging storylines. That isn't to say ROH didn't have engaging storylines at this time, but it became incredibly hard to absorb everything when I felt like I was watching the same match over and over again. One of the reasons I felt Samoa Joe got as big as he did in ROH was because he actually looked different and presented something different from everybody else on the show who looked almost exactly the same.
 

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Ring of Honor (boring) and they only had a brief period where the matches were good but overall they waste their talent just as bad as TNA. They are actually worse at booking women than WWE.


Modern day WWE because given its size, reach, and revenue it massively disappoints. They give me no reason to care about their stories, matches are all the same in structure more so than any other company, its poorly shot, people are booked nonsensically, and there is just too much content. I do not care about NXT anymore either because their roster is gutted and its affected their stories.

I only watch NJPW mainly due to how much I work. However, in previous years I watch Dragon Gate, BJW, AJW, CMLL, AAA, and LU alongside WWE, NXT, and NJPW. Nearly every company delivers something special except ROH and WWE these days.
 
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AEW. A company built around Stardust, his wife and the his Elite geek buddies pretending to be serious execs. Add in a 50 year old Y2J, a roster full of the most smaller than life indy flippy shit spot monkies you could find and Ambrose. People are acting like it’s the greatest can’t miss company they’ve ever seen and will put Vince out of business before they’ve even had a year to prove themselves capable of pulling network ratings. The definition of overrated.
Harsh delivery, but I can't really argue against your assessment.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My main problem with ROH is that It's way too match oriented, no matter how hard they try, they're never gonna be a sporting company. So it ends up being a super niche product with a limited shelf life. Look at 1999 WWF, hardly a huge selection of so called 5 star matches, but guess what, it was memorable. Furthermore IMO, early 00s WWF/E is everything every wrestling company should strive to be, you had the perfect blend. ROH and NJPW are one dimensional. There's levels to this shit.
 

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AEW. A company built around Stardust, his wife and the his Elite geek buddies pretending to be serious execs. Add in a 50 year old Y2J, a roster full of the most smaller than life indy flippy shit spot monkies you could find and Ambrose. People are acting like it’s the greatest can’t miss company they’ve ever seen and will put Vince out of business before they’ve even had a year to prove themselves capable of pulling network ratings. The definition of overrated.
AEW :reigns
This is the only answer. An organization of one star (Moxley) and a bunch of geeks is not going to compete with Vince

To add for underrated: WCW. Everyone always talks about how they ended but the NWO angle saved wrestling. It got Vince to up his game and brought on another golden age
The body isn't even cold yet, and the burials have already started. AEW has a long way to go before even being considered to overrated as so far, they are doing much better than most wrestling promotions.

The most overrated promotion that I've ever seen is ECW. Terrible product, the characters didn't make much sense, and the violence was senseless with no storytelling. I am baffled when people in and out of the wrestling business praise ECW. It almost felt like smut TV. The kind of brain-washing that went on in that company is incomprehensible to this day; you got people impaling and mutilating themselves for real for practically nothing. That promotion didn't deliver a good product, was not mainstream at any time, did not take care of talent (not that most companies do anyway, but ECW just couldn't handle them in a way where the company made money). These are all signs that speak volumes to overstated and overhyped nature of ECW.

I think Heyman is a talented guy, but I don't think he was the right guy to book a promotion.
 

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LU made more people give a damn about lucha more than AAA and Cmll ever did outside Mexico. Now literally every promotion is booking multiple luchadores. They created a buzz with no big stars.

Ecw is the most overrated. Without Raven and Foley, it was super trash.
 

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AEW. A company built around Stardust, his wife and the his Elite geek buddies pretending to be serious execs. Add in a 50 year old Y2J, a roster full of the most smaller than life indy flippy shit spot monkies you could find and Ambrose. People are acting like it’s the greatest can’t miss company they’ve ever seen and will put Vince out of business before they’ve even had a year to prove themselves capable of pulling network ratings. The definition of overrated.
Enjoy raw buddy,Whatever floats your boat

I tend to agree that ROH is over rated. What does ROH stand behind ? I have never felt the brand had an idenity.It just was like ok hey we have a kinda cool name and we will put on good matches. Ok good matches ok but what are you . No character no brand just a blank canvas putting on some solid matches. Best of years ROH has had to work with other peoples companies and theres a reason for that.


ROH dont make people look good, People make ROH look good.Thats the difference.
 
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ROH events definitely have a problem with me in that it all kind of blends together and there's not enough differentiation, not enough hook. To me the experience is akin to listening to a metal album that tries to have every single song be the Killer/No Filler "anthem" song or best song of the album, and just top each song after each song after each song and it doesn't cohere. Instead of having that one standout, insane track, its a 45 minute smear of a record where you're not sure when one song ends and one song begins, what makes each track different and special, etc.

I kind of blame them for the idea of, and I'm not sure where this phrase comes from, but it really bothers me, and that is "banger." This match is a banger, that match is a banger, the whole card was banger after bangers. Well, if they're all bangers, so what?
 
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