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The Empire will Reign again
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16,448 Posts
Well damn. I always thought he was viewed as a solid enough worker. I think some of his MAJOR matches have hindered him it looks, especially that MANIA title match with Orton. Also a lot of his matches are unnecessarily gimmick'd too lol.
Between WM vs Orton, House of Horrors, Final Deletion and now this, people only judge him by his worst work, they've completely forgotten about his matches against Bryan, Reigns, and Cena.

Just to use Meltzer as a reference point he gave Bray vs Bryan 4*, vs Cena I 3.5*, Cena III 4.5*, vs Ambrose I 3.25*, Ambrose II 3.75*, vs Reigns I 3.75*, Reigns II 3.75* . Even if people don't agree with those exact scores a lot of those matches were really good. Put Bray with a good worker in a non-gimmick match and he can hang.
 

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The optimistic Asuka fan
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2,722 Posts
Rollins vs. Fiend -2 minus 2 star
If you got a scale from 0 to 5, what shall a -2 rating be good for? That means, if we normalize the staff in past, a few of the 0 point matches were rated worse than necessary?

If you got a test in school and you have not enough points, you get the worst grade. Doesn`t matter you got 0 from 100 or 3 from 100.

So what happens, when a wrestler throws up in the next match or beats a fan down with a chair by mistake? -5 stars, -10 stars? Dave just proofs again, that we shouldn`t take him serious.

No, I am not defending the match!
 

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Premium Member
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4,063 Posts
-2...wow...:lmao
 

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Baby Yoda
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29,300 Posts
Between WM vs Orton, House of Horrors, Final Deletion and now this, people only judge him by his worst work, they've completely forgotten about his matches against Bryan, Reigns, and Cena.

Just to use Meltzer as a reference point he gave Bray vs Bryan 4*, vs Cena I 3.5*, Cena III 4.5*, vs Ambrose I 3.25*, Ambrose II 3.75*, vs Reigns I 3.75*, Reigns II 3.75* . Even if people don't agree with those exact scores a lot of those matches were really good. Put Bray with a good worker in a non-gimmick match and he can hang.
In ring standards have risen since then, you can knock 1/2* to 1* on all of them.
 

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3,393 Posts
Was I the only one enjoying the main event up until the curb stomp spam? Wyatt gets shit for supposedly not being able to work but they were on the road to disproving that myth and then they drove off a cliff and exploded into a 40 ft fireball.
Me too!

I thought the first 90% of the match was one of the best things they’ve done in years.

I liked it so much I was already imagining a Brock Lesnar-like reign for this new, cool character.

I understand the -2 star rating, because a satisfying finish and live crowd reaction are crucial. But the match itself was 10/10 awesome until the curb stomp spam.
 

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Baby Yoda
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29,300 Posts
I would argue the exact opposite. Meltzer gives out high ratings like candy to matches that are just high spot fests.
Nah, the top end is so far ahead that it makes what was considered a great match 3-4 years back look average to meh.

For example, there's no way any of those big matches are in the same stratosphere as Okada-Shibata and that was only 5*.

Obviously Dave overdoes it, but the very top end is on an entirely different level and makes what WWE produces look mediocre in comparison.
 

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Baby It's Violence
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7,115 Posts
Between WM vs Orton, House of Horrors, Final Deletion and now this, people only judge him by his worst work, they've completely forgotten about his matches against Bryan, Reigns, and Cena.

Just to use Meltzer as a reference point he gave Bray vs Bryan 4*, vs Cena I 3.5*, Cena III 4.5*, vs Ambrose I 3.25*, Ambrose II 3.75*, vs Reigns I 3.75*, Reigns II 3.75* . Even if people don't agree with those exact scores a lot of those matches were really good. Put Bray with a good worker in a non-gimmick match and he can hang.
Bray actually is a good worker, the problem is his gimmick is just a magnet when it comes to terrible booking decisions. An even then, with his gimmick and how good a character and promo he is, he doesn't need to be really good in the ring anyway.

I agreed with the notion that the HIAC match was actually quite good up until the incessant curb stomps and the outrageously horrible finish (which in my eyes was goddamn a trillion negative stars). I still call it a minus 5 star match in my book because it just did nothing in the end but destroy the credibility of both guys (killing their hottest gimmick), and making everybody angry.

It was really fun at points watching Bray just destroying Seth, and him completely no selling some stuff. I even liked the aura and mood lighting gimmicks to an extent. Shame they decided to do everything wrong.
 

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If that HIAC match with Becky and Sasha was the exact same match move for move but was Charlotte vs. Becky or Sasha, he would have given it 4.5 stars.

The Becky/Charlotte match at Evolution was 4.5, was it really any better than Becky/Sasha at HIAC? Any non-Charlotte women's match in WWE automatically loses half a star with Big Dave.
 
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