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Discussion Starter #1
Yeah, this site update has pretty much killed a lot my interest in this place. The thing is, I’ve used this site for about 8 years now. And to me, I was drawn to it because compared to other forums, like Wrestlezone or wherever else I tried initially, it was the most fun, interactive wrestling discussion site there was.

Sure, it wasn’t perfect and there were kinks over the years. But with all the different features that were there and added over the years and the people I ended up “meeting” a lot of good people through this site, it made talking about wrestling fun. And that’s the biggest thing about this site update, the fun and the personality was sucked out of it.

And look, I won’t say that “I’ll never be back!” or “screw you guys for doing this!” I don’t want to be that guy. What I will say is that seems completely asinine that for months, people rebelled against this update, and we only really got feedback once the site was re-designed, again, against everyone’s wants and wishes. And look, I won’t pretend to be smart enough to know why this had to happen. But if this had to happen, could we have done a couple of things? Like:

  1. Give us more background to WHY this is even happening.
  1. Be straight up with us. If we had just got something blunt in the beginning like “this update is going to suck, it has to happen, and we’ll try to make it better.” Sure, it still sucks, but at least at that point we’re not being fed some corporate speech that doesn’t feel genuine.
So again, I’m not gonna act like I’m never gonna use this site again. I still will pop in every now and again. I’ve met too many good people here to not come back. But at the same time, changes have to be made. And preferably, those changes would already be in place or this update could have been rolled out at a better time than freaking December (the worst month for Wrestling), but, here we are. So anyways, here are changes that I think need to be made:

No Homepage:

Look, to be completely fair, the old layout had a fairly useless homepage. But God, this one is even more useless. It lists the “Top Forums” I’m assuming based on the one that have had the most hits in the past. To the point where after the update, Impact Wrestling showed up on the homepage over AEW. That’s just, nonsense.

And even as I look at the homepage now, 2 of the main forums read as “Old Dumpster” and “Game is Over Forum” that have date on them from 1969. Huh? That needs to go.

Get Some Gray in here:

I personally always liked the Gray and Blue design before the update. Now we have 2 options of light and dark. Using Light mode gives me a headache, and Dark mode is, well, too dark. A better color scheme is needed.

A Better Layout:

Now, this is a very broad topic. But the old site’s look and aesthetic was what made it, in my opinion, cool to use. When I came onto the main forum page, we had various things like:

  • A special logo for each section like Raw, SD, NXT, etc.
  • A true border around each section of the forum to help it stand out more.
  • Being able to see the last thread and the last person to respond to said thread from the main forum page
All little things like that that add a lot more personality to the forum and allow things to breath more. And yeah, technically the main forum page still has the same structure, but with all the personality taken out of it.

Active Thread Sidebar:

OK so this is a big one. On the old site you had a sidebar that would list the most active threads showing the name of the thread, who last responded to it, and the time. This was so handy and showed up anywhere on the forum. If someone one made a hot thread with a hot report, you know about it instantly, which allows for more buzz and traffic.

Now? There’s a latest posts thing buried at the bottom of the main forum page, but that’s all I can really see. You could have a big thread going on in the NXT section for example and it won’t get nearly the buzz it should because people just don’t know about it. It has to come back.

Getting Rid of Unneeded Additions:

No one I imagine cares about these “trophies” or the top contributors to a certain section. There are changes for good. And there are changes for the sake of change. Most of these new additions (not all) fall in the latter.

Being Able to actually see Signatures:

What’s the point of even having a signature when you have to hit a drop down “Show Full Signature” to see the whole thing? Things like the Avitars and Signatures help give each post their own personality if they so choose to have one.

Return of Smilies:

OK seriously, I’ve been on other forum sites recently who look even more generic than this site does now, and even they have custom smilies. Again, it’s another thing that made this site fun.

A Better Reply/Text Box:

So, whenever I hit the “Reply” button in a thread in the old layout, I got transported to another page entirely to write out my reply. And in that new page, the Reply Box had all these great, easy to use features to link Youtube, Dailymotion, Tweets, Images, Mentions, etc. as well as adding any other features to your text.

The new site throws the text box at the bottom of every thread and we basically have a bare bones version of it now. Even if you can use some of the old features, it’s not nearly as easy to use as before. That along with the sidebar is one of my biggest gripes.

Being able to Edit your own Post:

I mean, c’mon, this has to be added, right?

A Better Profile Page:

So again, and I hate sounding like a broken record here, but on the old layout, I could look up all my own Threads, Likes Received, Quotes, Mentions, etc. Now, I can do no such thing.

Another case of things being bare boned now. Also, I’ll throw this in here as well, the fact anyone has to rely on a Mod to do something as simple as centering their Signature is asinine.

Return of Rep:

This is another feature that, again, made this site more fun and interactive. I don’t see why you get rid of it.

A More Interactive Top Toolbar:

Before in the old layout, the top toolbar of the Forum was more expansive. Hell, you could go to any section in the Forum just from the Top Toolbar. Your notifications were better highlighted. It was just easier to use.


So yeah, I think I basically covered the things that bothered me. There are other things I’ve heard gripes about. No chatbox, no “Arcade”, whatever that is, no GIF Avitars, etc. Also, and this is just me being completely nitpicky, but in the Old Layout, you had 10 posts per page. Now you have 20. I don’t know, I liked just having 10 more. But I think I’ve made my points clear.

And just so I’m fair, I’ll list a couple of improvements with this new layout. Well, OK just 2. It’s better on a mobile device now and I do like the “Jump to Latest” button in each thread.

Again, I’m not here to be the guy that says “screw you Admins” because there’s not enough I know about what’s going on here and there’s a better way of going about things. But at the end of the day, it’s clear this update so far has been a fail. And it’s not just me or someone else saying that. Just look at the recent weekly Raw and SD threads. And yes, I know it’s December. I know it’s around Christmas time. But you literally just had a Raw Forum get 50 something posts and SD one get 30 something posts.

That’s how much the buzz and traffic of this site has been killed. What’s next? We’re just gonna create one thread for Raw and SD discussion like NXT has? Is that how bad it’s going to get? I don’t know, you’ll have to answer that with your actions in the near future.

In closing, I know some will look at every thing I’ve stated and think “oh boo hoo” but the thing is, I’ve realized 2 main things when comparing the old layout to the new layout.

#1: Using the new layout feels like work with everything we have to work around.

#2: The Old Format made talking about wrestling fun.

And the thing is, I don’t want some Admin responding to this saying “more updates to come.” Just take these things I said, and react to them in some way. Realize that everything I’m talking about, for the most part, are little things that together combined to make this forum so good. Use these suggestions, and everyone else’s suggestions, and make this site better. Make it fun again.

Screw it, I’ll say it, Make Wrestling Forum Great Again.
 

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Currently lying down wearing a blue suit
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10,793 Posts
Please actually TRY to make these URGENT changes that the OP listed this time, @OG Jeff and @Administrator.

I'd also like to be able to edit MY OWN POSTS after 24 hours, have 70 different options on the vote polls, and see the number of posts someone makes for each thread.

The OP also just reminded me how it was nice seeing the number of Likes ("Reactions") that you GIVE to other people.
 

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Mamba Mentality
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25,994 Posts
Thank you @TD Stinger for laying it all out. Any fun this once popular website had is nearly gone. Abandoned and left on life support. I believe the greatest sin VS @Administrator made was rolling out a LIFELESS default template as the update.

VS SHOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED THIS FORUM UNTIL THEY HAD A FULLY BUILT UPDATE!

BEFORE this INEFFICIENT update was introduced, VS SHOULD HAVE CONSULTED with the WF community on the features we highly value. VS should have COLLABORATED with us so that the forum looks, functions, is accessible to our needs and liking. Afterall, we are the ones using the forum everyday. The entire update and handling of the transition is UNPROFESSIONAL and highly aggravating due to THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION from VS!

It's going to take all of 2020 to actually get the simplest of features we have requested, GTFOH.
 
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I know we're all beating a very dead horse at this point but I still co-sign so much from the OP.

I may not be around often nowadays but that doesn't mean WF isn't a special site to me, just as it is to so many regulars. We all go on about "the aesthetic" but that's because it matters; custom smilies, animated gifs, ugly but customized signatures shown in all their glory and the old layout can't be traded for multi-platform compatibility and have that be called an "upgrade". If we had wanted a clean, sterile, default Xenforo forum we had loads to choose from, or one of us would have started our own. VS, your customers and staff didn't ask for this.

Look, I have an online media and IT background - I get it, changes have to happen as technology usage morphs. I was once a senior Flash (and the dinosaur Authorware!!! for e-learning) dev so ... yeah, I know change is a thing. Forum software switch-overs are inevitable, I think we all understand that, but there are ways to do it better. Instead, you went scorched earth and expected folks, most of whom have been posting and/or moderating here for years, to shrug it off and be ok with losing the forum they knew and loved. That's not how people react, not everyday social media and forum users anyway, and pros know this. That's not me calling you all unprofessional - I've sat through enough angry user feedback in other settings to know these changes are NEVER smooth - but every misstep possible was made in this roll out, right down to the timing.

Maybe it's my design focus that has me confused as to why you lot went ahead with what's almost a basic template forum overhaul but usability matters even more and, imo, you sacrificed almost as much there as well (chatbox, ease of editing/formatting/navigation, etc). You did nothing to tailor this forum to long-time users, the backbone of any online community. Letting people who've been here for over a decade be alienated by first having feedback ignored and then being served a half-baked "update" while expecting new users to carry the community-building workload on a now-generic site is, well, I want to say dumb but that's harsh so I'll go with optimistic.

I'm not keyboard mashing on and on about all this because I miss my old premium perks. Folks here know I barely used most of those. I was never a chatbox regular, ignored rep, barely touched 90% of the custom smilies, never maintained a thread that needed frequent OP edits ... most often I don't even have an avatar or sig. None of that, or profile goodies, mattered to me but I realize how much all of the aforementioned and more mattered to others. That's why, in your shoes, I'd not have rolled out an update that altered or took those things away. I'd have fought corporate decision makers who tried to force such. Not to say you folks here on the feedback frontlines necessarily didn't fight the decisions, maybe you did, and if so I feel for you; the relentless negative posts must suck. Fact remains, bad feelings were created and it's going to take a lot to mend those. WF may bounce back somewhat, and perhaps that's started, but it will never be what it was if member (and Wrestling Forum-specific staff, especially them - they know their userbase) opinions aren't taken seriously.

tl;dr - Fix your mess, VS folks. People are unhappy here because you unintentionally wrecked our forum.
 

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Everything in here is absolutely true. I think the biggest feeling I have about the whole thing is sadness. It's crazy how quickly this place has tanked and there's an incredible amount of work to be done to try and get us back to where we were.

The fact that the majority of the most requested features won't even be considered or prioritised is what confuses me the most. Agree entirely with Clique that this shouldn't have been rolled out until it was tested and shown to us. Why is it taking you 6 weeks to give us the admin cp? Did you not think to even ask us if we'd impacted by changes to edit time or removal of smilies when our library was as big as it was? Nobody would have minded if this waited until after Christmas either. You already delayed it once (never giving us an explanation as to why) and the fact that was largely greeted with people being happy was seemingly lost as well given how basic everything continued to be when we actually rolled out. I can't imagine what was originally in store for the first migration.

You guys probably won't tell us but I'd love to see the traffic comparisons for the site pre and post upgrade and how any of you can consider this a success or how much you really expect it to rise going into next year.

One of the greatest strengths of the site was the fact that usually the non-wrestling forums were where you'd find some of the best posters and discussion. There are some fantastic communities on here I've loved being a part of for the best part of 9 years. The changes to the forum have basically killed a large portion of fun from playing Mafia here, to the point where the majority of posters in the section are migrating elsewhere or essentially retiring after our Christmas game. This is one of the most active sub forums we have, which has posters who stopped caring about wrestling years ago but still came back here daily because the community was that strong, to the point where we even had new members join for the sole purpose of playing the game. Hell, even in spite of everything the Christmas game has had over 4,000 posts in under 2 weeks.

This is now going to be a section which is at best going on life support here until updates are put in place, which we have no guarantee will get us back to where we were on the old site and by that time what actually are the odds of them coming back to this forum? Especially when there are alternatives out there, which use this software and have all the features people here have requested. Before you say it, I know you talk about the time it takes to build these things from scratch, but again if that was the case why not just wait? This is the internet, people aren't going to have the amount of patience you probably require from them when they can go find somewhere else which fits what they're looking for a lot quicker.
 

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Administrator
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511 Posts
Acknowledging receipt of this message and plan on responding.

Just short-staffed with holidays and wanted you guys to know I saw this and not ignoring you guys.

Jeff M
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter #11
Maybe it's my design focus that has me confused as to why you lot went ahead with what's almost a basic template forum overhaul but usability matters even more and, imo, you sacrificed almost as much there as well (chatbox, ease of editing/formatting/navigation, etc). You did nothing to tailor this forum to long-time users, the backbone of any online community. Letting people who've been here for over a decade be alienated by first having feedback ignored and then being served a half-baked "update" while expecting new users to carry the community-building workload on a now-generic site is, well, I want to say dumb but that's harsh so I'll go with optimistic.
You detailed that in a much better way than I ever could. Kudos. I'd rep you if I could.

I think we worked an NYE miracle for you guys on this one today, standby for Release Notes.

Jeff M
Well, apparently you can now edit 10 posts per week with no limitations.

It's a start. A very small start, but a start. There is still a long way to go if you want this place to be as respectable as it was before.
 

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Currently lying down wearing a blue suit
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Okay, being able to edit your posts again (after 24 hours) is a very nice small step :nice

Hopefully, there will be more positive changes soon (that will be really similar to the old WF format) that can make this forum get more activity and traffic again.

Edit:

I'm still personally pulling for the ability to have 70 different options on the vote poll (since other sites have this feature) :p
 

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Chopped Liver
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5,553 Posts
I may be missing something, but can we also get the "Go Advanced" option back when making a post? There doesn't appear to be an option to do that here anymore. Granted, I only frequent the BTB section (which is essentially inactive anyway) but it's preventing me from posting anything there as it transfers anything I want to paste from Word in just plain black and white.

I know this is unimportant in the grand scheme of things (and if I've missed the button where I can do this, my apologies) but it'll probably affect my posting here at all.
 

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Administrator
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I may be missing something, but can we also get the "Go Advanced" option back when making a post? There doesn't appear to be an option to do that here anymore. Granted, I only frequent the BTB section (which is essentially inactive anyway) but it's preventing me from posting anything there as it transfers anything I want to paste from Word in just plain black and white.
There is only one option for your reply box, no go advanced screen. Depending on what you are posting, it will often copy the formatting from other software.
-Philip
 

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Administrator
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Okay, being able to edit your posts again (after 24 hours) is a very nice small step :nice
Hopefully, there will be more positive changes soon (that will be really similar to the old WF format) that can make this forum get more activity and traffic again.
Well, apparently you can now edit 10 posts per week with no limitations.
It's a start. A very small start, but a start. There is still a long way to go if you want this place to be as respectable as it was before.
Your collective and constructive feedback is recorded and noted from the start. We do listen to our entire network. Keep making recommendations so the dev and design teams know what needs to be built.
-Philip
 

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Currently lying down wearing a blue suit
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Your collective and constructive feedback is recorded and noted from the start. We do listen to our entire network. Keep making recommendations so the dev and design teams know what needs to be built.
-Philip
Alright, I'll assist you here:

- Add an Active Thread Sidebar that shows everyone the most recent posts made on a specific thread and who posted in it (like before)

- Add the ability to see how many posts each user made on a thread (like before when you click on the total number of posts made, it shows everyone the number of posts each person made from the most posts to the least posts AND it links you EACH post someone makes if you click on the name of a specific poster)

- Add the ability to have AT LEAST 70 different options on the vote poll (since other smaller sites with less activity have this cool feature)

- Add the rep system (or at least something extremely similar to the old one [since there's got to be some way to keep everyone happy/satisfied]) back so that people can give (positive or negative) feedback to posts made by other posters, and bring back the user CP where it shows you feedback that other posters made for your posts

- Add more smileys/GIFs that we originally had before the forum update

- Perhaps add a bell symbol where it alerts people whenever they get a notification, AND show the NUMBER of notifications that they receive too (so that it'll be more visible compared to now)

- Perhaps add MORE color to this forum (instead of it just being black and white) so that this site looks more appealing to the people here

- Perhaps add colorful border logos for the Raw subsection, Smackdown subsection, NXT subsection, and AEW subsection as @TD Stinger mentioned to differentiate them from each other

- Perhaps try to make signature pics/GIFS more visible, more visually appealing, and maybe a bit bigger than they are already

This is generally what the PEOPLE want in order to help this forum get more activity and traffic, which would make you VS folks look good as a whole since the community would be benefitting from your (possible) positive changes.

If you choose to make these suggestions I listed up above a higher priority (along with implementing these changes), then I'll assure you that you'll most likely receive less complaints from us; which would be great for both sides since it'll reduce the amount of wasted time spent arguing about the current format in the future.

Anyway, these are the suggestions that I have off the top of my head that could help make this forum fun and better for everyone. I'll keep you posted if I think of anything else good (or if anyone else comes up with something good as a feature).

Please listen and help us in order to keep this forum from dying out, @Administrator and @OG Jeff.
 

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Mamba Mentality
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Your collective and constructive feedback is recorded and noted from the start. We do listen to our entire network. Keep making recommendations so the dev and design teams know what needs to be built.
-Philip
I hope so. To add to DammitChrist's great list, please remove borders on avatars for every member. Avatar photos look bigger without the borders, and these grey borders don't even look good. Matter fact, remove the badges too or move them some place else on our profiles off our avatars. The avatars are a big deal to us. The bigger the better. Less of other things covering our photos the better.
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter #18
Your collective and constructive feedback is recorded and noted from the start. We do listen to our entire network. Keep making recommendations so the dev and design teams know what needs to be built.
-Philip
I’ll just say this, everything mentioned in the OP, and anyone can feel free to agree or disagree with me, should be a bare minimum to get this site back to where it once was. And then build from there.

Everything I’ve mentioned in the OP I believe is vital, chief among them being an active thread sidebar, a better layout, and a better reply/text box.
 

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Administrator
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511 Posts
Heya all, I can give you some quick updates and answer on what I know is coming down the line on these. I have answered in Bold.

The main priorities and focus right now are the following however weekly updates will continue in 2020 to address other feedback:
  • Restoring Admin CP access for Site Staff team
  • Premium Membership
  • Search updates and fixes
  • Minor design updates to the layout and functionality including the homepage
I have answered with some updates in Bold below:

- Add an Active Thread Sidebar that shows everyone the most recent posts made on a specific thread and who posted in it (like before)

There are some design updates coming to the sidebar and there will be updates to toggle it with premium memberships in Jan 2020.

- Add the ability to see how many posts each user made on a thread (like before when you click on the total number of posts made, it shows everyone the number of posts each person made from the most posts to the least posts AND it links you EACH post someone makes if you click on the name of a specific poster)

You can see all that under the user profile under "Discussions " and "Replies":

- Add the ability to have AT LEAST 70 different options on the vote poll (since other smaller sites with less activity have this cool feature)

How often do you need to add 70+ options in a poll?

- Add the rep system (or at least something extremely similar to the old one [since there's got to be some way to keep everyone happy/satisfied]) back so that people can give (positive or negative) feedback to posts made by other posters, and bring back the user CP where it shows you feedback that other posters made for your posts

The reactions and the Trophies options will be expanded upon in the new year with new options and "Rep" like features:

- Add more smileys/GIFs that we originally had before the forum update

That is something else we will look at in 2020 but can not promise all the custom ones coming back, however, it is much easier to post GIF's for now.

- Perhaps add a bell symbol where it alerts people whenever they get a notification, AND show the NUMBER of notifications that they receive too (so that it'll be more visible compared to now)

We will have push notifications coming out in the Q1 2020 to better show those.

- Perhaps add MORE color to this forum (instead of it just being black and white) so that this site looks more appealing to the people here

This is by design to work with Google most recent design requirements, more info here:

- Perhaps add colorful border logos for the Raw subsection, Smackdown subsection, NXT subsection, and AEW subsection as @TD Stinger mentioned to differentiate them from each other

That us something the design team will look at seeing if there are options for down the road. But as of right now it is not something we can quickly do.

- Perhaps try to make signature pics/GIFS more visible, more visually appealing, and maybe a bit bigger than they are already

You are able to set your signature to "show" by default under settings and there is talk of increasing the image sizes a bit.

Jeff M
 

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Currently lying down wearing a blue suit
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Alright, from what I'm hearing, that's better than nothing.

To answer your question, @OG Jeff , I'm going to need the 70+ options on the vote poll once per week for a thread series starting this upcoming Monday. It lasts until the end of December.

That's pretty much the (only) biggest concern I still have after reading through your answers.
 
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