[The Wood]

Cornette should be praising AEW for all the content he's created because of them.Aew helping out the old senile man with a paycheck #AEWBLESS

Yeah, it’s not like there’s another promotion that mass produces shit he could rant about and interest more people with.

 

[The Wood]

Lol, this always gets me. Cornette half asses his NXT review and straight up refuses to watch the main roster outside of PPVs or particularly idiotic segments sent to him on Twitter. If it was about money, he'd pretend to give a shit about WWE, but he puts so much passion into AEW because he sees the potential and hates how it's being wasted. NXT is so boring that he can't even rant about it, he just gives deadpan reviews because he feels obligated to do so for his listeners.

He also ended up saying something that I said in the very early days (before he did, which I just clarify so people can’t say I “copied” him): This is an opportunity to give people outside the WWE a chance to work, and them fucking it up reduces the chances that any other billionaires will see wrestling as anything worth investing in.

AEW fans are just happy to have a product that winks and nudges at them, not really seeing the larger picture (in my opinion). Cornette has always had an industry-wide vision.

But you see that criticism of him — that he’s “using” them for attention. Like the guy didn’t have a successful podcast before, like he’s selling Cornette products to people looking to hear nice things about AEW, like it’s anywhere near the biggest lightning rod could throw up, and like they didn’t actually offer him a fucking job.

It’s really hard for some people to just accept that some people aren’t enamoured with the content put out by AEW.

 

[The Wood]

Not to mention Corny was doing fine long before AEW came to town.

It's just a hobby. Out of respect for the business and actual wrestling fans, he exposes the many, many flaws of this detriment to wrestling itself company all from the comfort of his home.

And he’s getting more and more popular. If there weren’t an audience for his criticisms, then how does that keep happening?

 

[The Wood]

It's funny how people act like he's irrelevant. Even the goofs over at AEW acknowledge him. He's AEW's biggest, and only, heel, and he's not even employed there. In fact, he rejected the chance to join them!

The irrelevant thing is so weird. I guess it’s because you can’t dismiss Corny’s arguments without trying to dismiss him. He’s old, out of touch, a carny, hates AEW so he’s biased, irrelevant, he doesn’t really believe it, etc. They’re buzz phrases designed to attack the person and not the argument.

I guess the irrelevant thing is because he hasn’t sucked up to get a WWE job? I mean, the guy’s been working in wrestling pretty consistently for almost 40 years now. Even over the past decade there was the podcast, beloved by many, the NWA, MLW, GFW and ROH, which he saved by negotiating the sale to Sinclair. He’s even appeared in some WWE productions and is integral in Dark Side of the Ring.

And it’s clear AEW talent obsess over him. Chris Jericho, The Bucks and Joey Janela especially. Tony Khan has made an on-air reference. The criticisms obviously sting, and that’s because they carry the weight of an expert who can articulate themselves without mincing words and usually in a better promo than anyone else can cut.

I’d say Corny is EXTREMELY relevant if you are trying to get a lay of the land when it comes to understanding commentary about wrestling. He’s probably the most well-known wrestling critic right now?

 

[The Wood]

This week's show is a prime example of Cornette not needing AEW. He's making so much money from his Cornette collectibles orders that he has to shut down that part of his website and take a one month break from shipping orders. That's without even mentioning that AEW offered him a job in the beginning that he turned down, and did it again as recently as 3 months ago because the s*** they put on their program is so embarrassing that he doesn't want his name attached to it for any amount of money. Whoever truly thinks he needs to flame them to pay his bills is just being willfully ignorant at this point.

Look at JR and Arn Anderson. They’re two guys I greatly respect, but you can tell JR wants out of it. Not out of the paycheck, per se, but out of the product. Arn’s statement on the stuff they do is “If you had asked me a while ago, I’d have hated it, but now I can accept that it’s what the people there want to see.” Which has a very coded message, haha.

Cornette thinks that it’s shit, says that it’s shit, doesn’t excuse that it’s shit, and somehow he’s the dishonest guy?

And his arguments make SENSE. Who would argue with the suggestion that Adam Page should have been introduced with 6-minute matches designed to make him look like a perfectly capable wrestler? Anybody? But he’s “out of touch” because he “wants to see 20-minute headlocks.” Bah.

 

[The Wood]

Lots of praise from Cornette this week. He was high on Archer/Kingston (besides the finish and the heel/heel dynamic) and Jungle Boy/Dax.

Lol, the way Cornette described the main event is hilarious. Are The Young Bucks really already working with Gallows & Anderson? Wow.

 

[The Wood]

Jungle Boy has been really good almost every time I’ve seen him. Jungle Boy vs. MJF is one of my favourite AEW matches. I might have to add JB vs. Dax to that list, but I haven’t gotten around to watching it yet.

 

[The Wood]

There are a lot of guys with potential in AEW, but it’s not the environment to polish and focus talent. Guys have so much freedom that they are basically getting practice at doing their own shit without changing anything to get better.

 

[The Wood]

Cornette & his followers are wrestling's equivalent of Trump & extreme elements of the right; loonies who are afraid of change & like to hear everything in the past was better.

We know first hand his ideas don't play in today's world as his dated gimmick saw him removed for racism in his last real gig with nwa.
With roh top talent like Owens had issues with his old fashioned creative which included $1,000 prize for battle royal & rehash of Canada vs USA from his time with wwe in 1997.

The troubling aspect of this "cult" is their willingness not to just defend Cornette's wrestling views but his actions. As ovw owner he took advantage of his position & assaulted Anthony Carelli. Recently, former wrestlers who made accusations against & him & his wife were harassed by cult members.
Scary.

Is there an argument here, or just ad hominem?

He quit the NWA, by the way. His commentary was the best in the business before he left. A lot of people lost interest in the NWA after that (myself and Dave Meltzer included).

Those ROH ideas don’t sound half-bad. Kevin Owens was a bit of a punk back then he wanted to do a lot of gimmicky ECW shit which wouldn’t have held up and would have hampered the sale of ROH. But the boys gotta get their shit in. He ended up taking Corny’s advice and lost weight, gelled the hair and hasn’t been anywhere near as argumentative in the WWE as in ROH.

I’m not stuck in the past. I’m not even stuck in the present. I am constantly looking towards the future for something genuinely stimulating to come along. What does being stuck in the past mean to you? Is it wanting good wrestling that makes sense and tells a progressive story, or is it hiring nostalgia acts to hang around your top babyfaces because you were a WCW fan back in the day? Genuine question.

Instead of just saying something that hasn’t been tried won’t work, how about you try and explain why it won’t. How is Cornette stuck in the past? Should the Battle Royal have been for a dinosaur horn instead of $1,000?

What did AEW fans think of JB vs. Dax Harwood? Were they so disgusted at Cornette’s taste in wresting?

Dax hardwood was the agent for the match too,

The guy is a talent, for sure.

 

[The Wood]

Meltzer didn’t think All In would sell out. Let’s discard his opinion too, hey? And he’s right to dismiss Orange Cassidy. Shit like that is why AEW couldn’t keep that 1.4 million that wanted to give them a chance.

Why can’t people just accept the reviews are negative because he doesn’t like the products? What do you say when he actually praises something thoroughly?

 

[The Wood]

If you apply that rule about half the ppl in aew section don't watch aew

If they make intelligent points, who cares? Who are adding NOTHING and going around in circles to justify it.

What exactly about Cornette’s criticisms don’t you like this week and why?

 

[The Wood]

I argue with points I remember. Cornette merely offers his opinion - that's all. He's a great talker & convincing and if you have limited exposure to wrestling view points & different products you might take everything as fact.
Unfortunately, where he comes unstuck is practice. With roh he pissed talent with old fashioned creative & missed boat with Bucks who actually later drew best business in history of that company. If that's not rebuke of his philosophy don't know what is.
He most recent effort was with nwa a company designed to recreate product of 1985 & his approach was too outdated for even them.
Meltzer may not have thought the bucks had the fanbase to sellout sears center but he didn't suggest adopting method which hadn't been viable since 80's & actually put smw out of business[/B]

Lol at the bold bit. Also, The Bucks have never drawn on wrestling. They were disposable undercard talent in New Japan and are stuck in the niche that is AEW. But even if they did start to draw, that’s got nothing to do with how expensive versus how unremarkable they were then. Talk about being stuck in the past.

Cornette saved ROH. If he didn’t steer it in the direction it went, indy wrestling would have been decimated. That trumps upsetting Kevin Steen and an uncontracted El Generico.

Did Cornette even suggest local television? I remember him talking about radio for local publicity and comps. He probably undersold the mobilised nature of the disgruntled wrestling nerd, but so did everybody. He also suggested getting CM Punk or Bryan Danielson. Boy would that have been nice?

 

[The Wood]

Jericho tellling Cornette that if he´d shut up, they´d pay him is quite telling..

What is that NDA thing Cornette is talking about? I´ve heard it referenced a few times now

It’s just an agreement that stipulates that Cornette can’t divulge AEW’s business strategies. He’s gotten dangerously close when he revealed that Tony Khan was planning to re-sign Goldberg and give him another streak. But that’s probably in the clear because it didn’t happen and Goldberg signed with the WWE.

I’m pleased. Makes it easier to find the talking points 😊

Look forward to discussing and debating the points raised by Jim Cornette, Brian Last and anyone here, whether for or against.

A question or two for all (especially those who dismiss Jim Cornette’s views). It is generally accepted that Jungle Boy vs Dax Harwood was the best match on this week’s Dynamite.

Did it or did it not follow the basic/traditional rules of logical wrestling (psychology) without overdoing things or being like any other match on the show?

And if the answer to the above is ‘yes’ then does that not somewhat validate one of the points Cornette makes about how wrestling could be done without trying to reinvent the wheel?

Yes and yes.

Does anybody in this thread know the total number of people who listen to his podcast?

It’s a few hundred thousand worldwide. He gets more people listening to his podcast than watch Impact. He’s probably sneaking up to Dynamite, honestly. Granted, that is worldwide vs. US, but it’s one guy sharing his opinion versus a wrestling promotion.

 

[The Wood]

Really? He didn't critique the lionsault being the finish so Jericho can flip off people for laughing at his botch?

He brought it up and mentioned that the commentators made sure to spike home that he can still pull it off. Lol, insecurity. He also pointed out that the great workers of the past have been able to change up their work style when lose all the steps Jericho has.

He also gave Brian Pillman, Jr. advice — “put more effort into your shoot-offs. Jericho doesn’t do it because he’s blown up. You’re in better shape than him.” Lol, or something like that.

 

[The Wood]

What's a shoot off?

An Irish whip.

 

[The Wood]

I never noticed Brian Pillman sucked at Irish whips. I thought they were damn near impossible to fuck up

You should listen to Cornette more. Too many guys do a “head palm shoot off,” which is a big no-no in front of a veteran who knows what they are doing. You’re supposed to put your body into it and actually look like you are transferring some sort of movement with your body weight. Too many guys rely on “magic.”

It’s also probably why a bunch of people will lean on the whip to explain why wrestling is bullshit, so you don’t need to actually try to make it good anywhere.

There are stories of veterans getting a bad whip and just turning around and beating the shit out of the no-mark that gave it to them, because it exposes them all.

 

[The Wood]

Interesting. I'm a visual learner could you show me it done the head palm way and the correct way? Or is it one of those things you need to look out for?

Normally I would find examples, but I’m a bit lazy right now, haha. It’s something to keep an eye out for. Be careful, once you see it, you might not be able to unsee it.

 

[The Wood]

Poor decision to pin this thread. Gives a prominence to his opinion which was only reserved for Dynamite & Dark topics themselves.
@BOSS of Bel-Air was spamming this section with Cornette clips to get a rise out of ppl but has been rewarded with a featured place at top of page.
I'm thinking of taking a break from this place because it's just not worth posting here.

Yay!

Cornette’s opinion has value. Still waiting for you to raise one good challenge of a criticism he’s made in the videos linked.

 

[The Wood]

Cornette is just one voice & opinion - a particularly biased self serving one at that. I concede he knows a lot about the sport, however knowing about history & learning from it are two different things.
Far more successful & prominent figures like Verne Gagne, Vince McMahon Snr & Bill Watts all failed to keep up with changes in the business.
Only one thing is certain about wrestling & that's tastes change & what drew in the past will replaced by something different in the future.
Be careful listening to somebody who tells you otherwise.

Can we start by not listening to you? Still nothing of substance. At least this time you’ve dressed it up with some historical (albeit incorrect) references to make it sound like wisdom. It’s not. It’s hogwash.

Tastes don’t change as much as you assert they do. That’s marketing talk to try and sell you something you don’t need and don’t want. Presenting old school logic with new wave talents is the Cornette philosophy, and judging by what gets a good reaction re: AEW (Jungle Boy vs. Dax this week), that tickles people just fine.

 

[The Wood]

This. Reality proves him wrong. Orange Cassidy becoming the star he has or the Buck's success leading to the creation of a national promotion.

Orange Cassidy is not a star. Not even within the bubble of his own universe. He’s no better off than when he first showed up.

The Bucks didn’t build AEW, ffs. Vince McMahon’s rights fees encouraged a billionaire to snap up Chris Jericho and the most prominent free agents on independent wrestling to internet fans. That created AEW. The Bucks are interchangeable.