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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I cannot understand the overall problem people have with the main event of Night of Champions. For years, years, people have begged the E to produce wrestling angles, not just storylines, and that's exactly what we have been given with Cena/CM Punk/ Triple H/ Nash/Johnny Ace; an layered angle that has been producing hype for the WWE ( In major areas that it usually doesn't; Pimp Bomb is a killer hip-hop track) while producing good wrestling; the presence, the mic work, and the in ring work.

Over the last 3 months we have been given 3 very unpredictable main events, all of which delivered solid wrestling matches. I have never liked a Cena match more then the two he had, back to back, with Punk; not just because of the match itself, but because of the angle that fueled the match.

Last night's PPV did the same thing with Punk vs Triple H, not only did the match deliver between the ropes, Randy Savage Elbow anyone, the match had a special feel due to the angle surrounding the match.The difference between "Russo" interference and hat we got last night was the fact that last night made sense; if not immediately, it will in the near future, the seeds have been planted for months now.

Miz and R Truth join forces because they are being held down due to a conspiracy. They go after the Tag Titles to tie them over, but their overall goal is to be featured main eventers. If Johnny Ace was in power, he could easily grant the wishes of Miz and Truth and so reaches out to them to interfere; maybe just to get the heat off him in the first place. With Miz/Truth making a name for themselves by interrupting the Main Event and attacking Punk and HHH equally, it would be easier for Ace/Nash to pull off their main goal; taking over the WWE. On the other hand, Miz/Truth may be interfering on their own accord, simply because they want their just due; their spot in the main event.

Ace and Nash are trying to usurp power away from HHH; they have been a unit for a while now, with Ace driving with Nash, and pulling him away for secret conversations, ect, and while HHH fired Nash a couple weeks back, Nash was invited to the PPV by Ace to do more of his dirty work and cost H his status as COO. All the same, Ace nor Nash likes Punk either, and so Punk gets his as well, just not as bad as HHH ( Like the referee spot with Triple H and Ace) for they need Punk to win.

Triple H overcomes everything however, with some timely help from CM Punk, and defeated Punk with a Pedigree while Punk was still recovering from a massive Jack Knife. This allows HHH to foil the plan of Team Ace for the time being, keeping that aspect of the angle alive, and still get Punk over huge. It took 3 Pedigrees and Nash's Power Bomb to keep Punk down; add this to his ability to kick out of Attitude Adjustments at will, and survive the STF when countless others tapped out. Punk is being built, in ring, as one tough son of a bitch, someone with the ability to reach another level and keep going when most others would fail.

Now we have Ace/Nash all but exposed to HHH/Punk, Miz/Truth either siding with Nash/Ace or starting their own movement within this power struggle, Punk wise to the fact that Ace/Nash are not on the same page as HHH, Punk wanting revenge on Johnny Ace/Nash for costing him his match, Punk wanting a rematch with HHH because of the interference, and the possible teaming of Punk with HHH to defend the E from the upcoming treat; Punk has seen HHH as a member of the old school philosophy with Ace/Vince however now he can see he was wrong about HHH.

OF course there are questions left to be answered, that's how good story telling goes; there should always be more questions then answers right up until the end of a story. If you knew exactly why Miz and R Truth attacked Punk, or if Ace is only a figure head for some bigger power then you would have no reason to watch future shows.

Punk has been/was/and will continue to be the focus of a big push as the voice for the voiceless. The match at NoC might has ended in a lose, however he put on one hell of a match with Triple H and it took all hell to stop Punk from keepin' on comin' and finally lose.

Miz/Truth have just entered the angle and so will have a renewed push as well.

Ace and Nash have been outlined as the Heels of the program; yet their overall goal is still unknown and causing people to talk, hyping the angle.

Triple H, who is loved by the audience, remains a face and yet didn't have to turn his back on his badass character, nor did he have to completely destroy the face CM Punk; both men had different views and the ignorance between them made their differences in opinion much worse.

Explain what this Angle has failed to accomplish, or what is so complicated about the involvement? I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many people give it such heat.
 

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Agreed. These russo comparisons don't make any sense. This main event needed to be chaotic. People bashing it are either being too impatient, or are just bitching to bitch.
 

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I don't think anyone is bashing the angle, but you could have accomplished those things in a much more coherent manner. It's not like the match either had to be a complete clusterfuck, or nothing happens. When people's motivations aren't clear, like Truth saving Triple H after setting him up to lose earlier, you fucked up.

And just "questions being unanswered" does not good storytelling make. I mean I can think of about a million stupid illogical things that would leave people asking "what the fuck just happened?" That doesn't make them good.
 

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I enjoyed the ending. Gave a nice shake up from the usually endings that we've seen for so long. People will complain about anything though, so whatever.
 

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-Truth and Miz shouldn't be involved yet
-Trips still hasn't turned heel like many would have wanted
-Trips won clean
-Punk still comes out as a whiny spoiled emo tweener instead of a likeable face everyone can get behind
-Punk fanboys wanted their boy to win and argue he was buried despite not knowing what the term "buried" means
-No major swerve as anticipated.

That's the best I can digest from the hate this angle/match is getting. To me it's not ruined yet but it's getting close. It needs a swerve that not even the IWC can see coming a mile away. And it needs one now.
 

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I don't think anyone is bashing the angle, but you could have accomplished those things in a much more coherent manner. It's not like the match either had to be a complete clusterfuck, or nothing happens. When people's motivations aren't clear, like Truth saving Triple H after setting him up to lose earlier, you fucked up.
And just "questions being unanswered" does not good storytelling make. I mean I can think of about a million stupid illogical things that would leave people asking "what the fuck just happened?" That doesn't make them good.
I'll admit that was the one thing that left a bad taste in my mouth, but I think we were suppose to buy it as Truth retaliating against Punk after throwing him out the ring. Still, this part could have been done better. However, other than that I still think the main event was quite enjoyable
 

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-Truth and Miz shouldn't be involved in this angle yet
-Trips still hasn't turned heel like many would have wanted
-Trips won clean-Punk still comes out as a whiny spoiled emo tweener instead of a likeable face everyone can get behind
-Punk fanboys wanted their boy to win and argue he was buried despite not knowing what the term "buried" means
-No major swerve as anticipated.

That's the best I can digest from the hate this angle is getting. To me it's not ruined yet but it's getting close. It needs a swerve that not even the IWC can see coming a mile away. And it needs one now.
Not sure if serious......
 

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I agree with everything you said but unfortunately I think this is a case of people on these boards just being wrong. Yes, there are opinions, but unfortunately for some people, opinions can be wrong. You are entitle to be heard, but that doesn't make the opinion right. We've seen that it is possible with the threads from the past and how much people hated on the Attitude Era, calling Jericho Rock and Austin all boring etc.

The argument is that the main event was overbooked, but everything built up to it. If you thought Nash wasn't going to be there working alongside Jonny Ace and if you thought Miz/Truth's attack was random then you literally havent been paying attention.

People simply wanted a Punk victory, and I was one of them, but there is a STORYLINE as the OP suggests. Not to mention this preserves their rematches because this one got interrupted. Honestly if it wasn't a loss to HHH people wouldn't complain as much. People are throwing out buried comments when it is literally bs. Orton finished punk off with a springboard counter into RKO at Mania, last night, Punk was in the same position but it was the pedigree and he kicked out. If you cant see elevation from the match then your blind. It's not always wins/loses its how it goes down, how the match went, crowd reactions, and most importantly how good you look WHEN you lose. and Punk looked fantastic for a man who lost the match.
 

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I'll admit that was the one thing that left a bad taste in my mouth, but I think we were suppose to buy it as Truth retaliating against Punk after throwing him out the ring. Still, this part could have been done better. However, other than that I still think the main event was quite enjoyable
Again, I didn't really dislike it. I was fun in a total CF sort of way. I just think what was accomplished could have been done in a much clearer way. Like did we really need to set up storylines for Nash, Laurinaitis, Miz and Truth in one match? That's a lot to cram into a 20-30 minute match even if you do it well. Why not save, say the Truth and Miz stuff for RAW the next night?

So yeah, I didn't think it was awful, but it's not like I'm fucking flaberghasted by criticism of it like the OP seems to be.
 

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-Truth and Miz shouldn't be involved yet
-Trips still hasn't turned heel like many would have wanted
-Trips won clean
-Punk still comes out as a whiny spoiled emo tweener instead of a likeable face everyone can get behind
-Punk fanboys wanted their boy to win and argue he was buried despite not knowing what the term "buried" means
-No major swerve as anticipated.

That's the best I can digest from the hate this angle/match is getting. To me it's not ruined yet but it's getting close. It needs a swerve that not even the IWC can see coming a mile away. And it needs one now.
This is what im talking about. I understand opinions but not having things go your way does not make it bad and especially does not give people the right to think they can book this better.

As for Punk, THATS THE WHOLE IDEA. He was wrong about HHH this whole time and on Raw im sure it will be addressed. We all thought he would be in on it and thats why we expected a heel turn. It's clear he is not after night of champions.
 

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Not sure if serious......
Kinda. Yeah there were run-ins but it wasn't like he won because of the run-ins. He won in-spite of them.
 

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Austin and Rock should have done a run in and then Punk does GTS on all of them. Then he pulls his trunks down and urinates on them, and then takes a crap in Triple H's mouth. Then he grabs mic and says "the attitude era is over, live with it!" and then drops the mic in that pipebomb way.

That would be fucking awesome.
 

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Nobody's accusing this storyline (or any wrestling storyline for that matter) of being 'complicated'. It's wrestling so clearly that isn't the issue. It's being accused of being incoherent, ineffective, and badly executed.

The thread title is insulting and won't help people see your point of view.
 

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Kinda. Yeah there were run-ins but it wasn't like he won because of the run-ins. He won in-spite of them.
So unless Kevin Nash came with a shotgun and blew Punk's brains out, HHH won clean? Lol not trying to hate, but HHH's win last night was anything but clean.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I don't think anyone is bashing the angle, but you could have accomplished those things in a much more coherent manner. It's not like the match either had to be a complete clusterfuck, or nothing happens. When people's motivations aren't clear, like Truth saving Triple H after setting him up to lose earlier, you fucked up.

And just "questions being unanswered" does not good storytelling make. I mean I can think of about a million stupid illogical things that would leave people asking "what the fuck just happened?" That doesn't make them good.
Good story telling is two things; character development and keeping people's interest as those characters are developed. You use questions to keep suspense alive while you work towards the answers. Don't misquote me, I said questions being unanswered up until the ending, was good story telling; until the reveal of the answer, speculation of that answer is what keeps people interested in the story, thats good story telling, mate.

Regarding Truth, he is only following orders from a script. If it tells him to attack Punk and then attack HHH there is prob a reasoning behind it, otherwise why the hell would it be there? The writers are just gonna throw that in there? thats not the way this angle has been progressing, not yet at least, and so perhaps we dont know everything, and perhaps, the Truth thing will make sense as the story progresses.

Maybe Truth's orders changed? Maybe his goal was just to cause hell on both HHH and Punk so that if they were connected to Ace, Ace wouldnt be tied directly to screwing HHH. Maybe the motivations are not suppose to be clear yet; HHH's motivations weren't clear until last night, at least not in Punks eye; that was on of the main selling points of the match, where would HHH fall.

Try another rebuttal, please. help me understand the issue.
 

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Are you ignoring that Punk was Jackknifed which led to the Pedigree? Not to mention Truth pulling Punk off a beaten HHH.
And Punk still got back up after the jacknife. Wasn't like he got jacknifed, Nash left and HHH crawled over for the pin or immediately pedigreed him then got the pin.

When Punk GTS'd Truth he looked like he still had a good chance of winning.
 

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Couldn't agree more OP. This feud as brought up many different possible directions. I find it very intriguing, and I really see no reason to call the feud a flop in any respect.

Punk was far from buried last night, people need to brush up on their wrestling vernacular.
 
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