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Islamic group helping lead Egyptian protests raises new questions.

2393 Views 43 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  seancarleton77
http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110131/cm_atlantic/themuslimbrotherhoodthefutureofegypt6780

WASHINGTON, DC – As protests in Cairo continue, attention has turned to the Muslim Brotherhood, the 83-year-old Islamist opposition group. Members of the long-suppressed organization have recently been arrested in the protests. The opinions of the Muslim Brotherhood are vast and varied, as beliefs that the group's sole motivation is to oust President Mubarak and bring peace to the country are contradicted by proclamations that the Brotherhood plans to take over Egypt and create an anti-American state. Here is a sampling of the current discussion and the questions everyone is asking.

* What Is the Brotherhood's Role in the Protests? Cara Parks at the Huffington Post attempts to break down who exactly the Muslim Brotherhood is and what role it plays in the current protests. Founded in 1928 and suppressed in Egypt since 1952, the Muslim Brotherhood is known both for its support of democracy and its criticism of American foreign policy. In the protests currently ravaging Cairo, Parks writes, the Brotherhood's role is minimal. She cites news reports crediting Egypt's youth for the uprising. Still, members of the group have been arrested during the protests, as "the Egyptian government has warned protestors of the group's 'hidden agenda'." But, Parks points out, Nobel laureate Mohamad ElBaradei insists "the Mubarak government uses its Islamist opposition as an excuse for authoritarian rule."

* Are They Violent? "For most of its existence in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood has refrained from violence against the state. It is not the organization of radical jihadists that it is sometimes made out to be. But its caution in dealing with Mubarak has made it appear recently that it is more concerned with protecting itself than with improving the nation," writes Will Englund at The Washington Post. Still, "the groups running the demonstrations have organized a committee of 10 to deal with the government; the Muslim Brotherhood is included. When its eight regional directors were arrested last week, it chose not to mobilize in their defense so as not to distract from the main goal--the departure of Mubarak."

* Are They a Threat to the U.S.? Think Progress writer Tonya Somanader scoffs at the purported threat of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calling it the Republican hardliners' "delusion-du-jour." She writes that Representative Thaddeus McCotter and UN Ambassador John Bolton are among many in the U.S. who believe "the result of this pro-democracy movement will be the enfranchisement of the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-American 'jihadist nutjobs.'" She cites Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei's appearance on Fareek Zakaria's CNN show in which he denounced such assertions as "a myth perpetuated and sold by the Mubarak regime," insisting that the religiously conservative group is a minority in Egypt, but has a lot of credit because they are interested in a secular state. Somanader affirms ElBaradei's comments by writing that the Muslim Brotherhood has moved away from its past violence and, now peaceful, is the largest opposition group to the Egyptian government.

Now allied with legal Egyptian political groups and tied to Egyptian professional unions, university campuses, and social welfare programs, the Brotherhood is a “peaceful” group that “could draw moderate Muslims who identify with [its] ideology to participate in electoral politics, thereby isolating violent jihadis.” Indeed, the Brotherhood denounced a recent terrorist attack in Egypt as a “cowardly act” and is not on the U.S. State Department’s terrorist list....Though banned by Mubarak’s regime from participating in parliamentary elections, the Brotherhood has 17 supportive representatives in the Egyptian Parliament and is supporting ElBaradei’s leadership role in forming a new government without Mubarak.

* What Would a Muslim Brotherhood-Run Egypt Mean for Israel? The Israeli government fears that an Egypt run by the Muslim Brotherhood will mean "not only a stronger Islamist force in Gaza but also in the West Bank, currently run by the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority, as well as in Jordan, meaning Israel would feel surrounded in a way it has not in decades," writes the New York Times's Ethan Bronner from Jerusalem.
According to Bronner, the Muslim Brotherhood, which has ties to Hamas, is the "best-organized political force in Egypt." If in charge of the country, the group could be expected to turn Egypt's long held alliance with Israel into a hostile relationship and "quite likely stop in its tracks any further Israeli talk of peace negotiations with the Palestinians."

* Is the Brotherhood Being Disingenuous? At The Daily Beast, Leslie Gelb warns strongly against believing the Muslim Brotherhood's assertion that they are "misunderstood Islamic democrats" and that having the group in power "would be calamitous for US security." He explains why:

The MB supports Hamas and other terrorist groups, makes friendly noises to Iranian dictators and torturers, would be uncertain landlords of the critical Suez Canal, and opposes the Egyptian-Israeli agreement of 1979, widely regarded as the foundation of peace in the Mideast. Above all, the MB would endanger counterterrorism efforts in the region and worldwide. That is a very big deal.

It would be delusory to take the MB's democratic protestations at face value. Look at who their friends are—like Hamas.The real danger is that our experts, pundits and professors will talk the Arab and American worlds into believing we can all trust the MB. And that's dangerous because, outside of the government, the MB is the only organized political force, the only group capable of taking power. And if they do gain control, it's going to be almost impossible for the people to take it back. Just look at Iran.

* Will the Muslim Brotherhood Prove to Be Egypt's Version of Ayatollah Khomeini? Haaretz.com reports that the Muslim Brotherhood is working with Mohammed ElBaradei to form a national unity government, excluding President Mubarak's National Democratic Party. To some, like Don Surber, this is evidence that the results of the current uprising in Egypt will look like Iran's 1979 revolution. At his Daily Mail blog, Surber writes that if he were the president, he would bring home all of his ambassadors now. "Revolutions are dangerous, and the post-revolutionary period is often autocratic," he writes. "Pray for Egypt." Many who fear Egypt's revolution will turn out like Irans, envision the Muslim Brotherhood as the post-revolutionary autocratic regime. At The American Spectator, Hal G.P. Colebatch suggests that, "in the endless, dusty, jerry-built tower-blocks ringing Cairo, the Muslim Brotherhood is watching and waiting to seize its chance."
Is this shades of the 1979 revolution of Iran? Not all revolutions are good ones. All this talk of Democracy in Egypt is abound but let's ask ourselves, is it just an Islamic version of Democracy that is being promoted? On the other hand, it strengthens opposition against Israel but we are in desperate need of anti Zionist groups that aren't Islamic at the core.

It's awesome that these are peaceful protests but if a revolution in Egypt does occur, will the new government be any better or worse? It's all up in the air at this point in time but in my opinion, unless Egypt forms a secular government, it will be no better off then it was before. Let's hope that if a revolution does occur in Egypt, that the Muslim Brotherhood will make good on it's promises and work for Egyptians, not conservative Muslims.

I just hope that at the end of the day, Egyptians are happy and free.
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The Muslim Brotherhood's goal is to turn Egypt into an Islamic state which is predominantly under Sharia Law. This has been their mission since its foundation. El Baradei has been extremely critical of America especially with his days running the IAEA. This could be bad news for the United States, especially since Egypt is our closest Arab ally in the Middle East and are also at peace with Israel.

Obama needs to come out and say that he supports a transition to a democratically elected Egyptian government, but is vehemently opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood. Hopefully he does, or this will truly define Obama the way Iran defined Carter.
 

· Damn Fine Cup of Coffee
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Muslim Brotherhood's goal is to turn Egypt into an Islamic state which is predominantly under Sharia Law. This has been their mission since its foundation. El Baradei has been extremely critical of America especially with his days running the IAEA. This could be bad news for the United States, especially since Egypt is our closest Arab ally in the Middle East and are also at peace with Israel.

Obama needs to come out and say that he supports a transition to a democratically elected Egyptian government, but is vehemently opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood. Hopefully he does, or this will truly define Obama the way Iran defined Carter.
Agreed. Obama is showing himself to be an apathetic president like Carter was and this is coming from someone who is far on the left.

I cannot support this revolution but my support has no say on whether it succeeds or not. Hitler promised Germans National Socialism but gave them Fascism instead. I suspect that the MB promises Democracy but wants to install an Islamic Democracy(Oxymoron I know. Freedom of the government to impose Sharia Law on the public.) instead.
 

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Agreed. Obama is showing himself to be an apathetic president like Carter was and this is coming from someone who is far on the left.

I cannot support this revolution but my support has no say on whether it succeeds or not. Hitler promised Germans National Socialism but gave them Fascism instead. I suspect that the MB promises Democracy but wants to install an Islamic Democracy(Oxymoron I know. Freedom of the government to impose Sharia Law on the public.) instead.
I've said on here that I lean so far to the right I make Anne Coulter (who is a psychobitch, BTW) look like a bleeding-heart liberal. What Hitler had was an oxymoron also, socialism and fascism are polar opposites of each other. And the Muslim Brotherhood's principles are quite clear on their website...this coming directly from their website.

"The call of the Muslim Brotherhood was based on two key pillars:

1-The introduction of the Islamic Shari`ah as the basis controlling the affairs of state and society.
2-Work to achieve unification among the Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and liberating them from foreign imperialism."

Democracy and radical Islam don't go together, they are the polar opposites. The call is clear for a caliphate the likes of what was seen during the Mohammedan Era and later during the age of the Crusades. Groups like the Muslim Brotherhood claim to be peaceful, but in reality their goals are the same as those of groups like Hamas or Hezbollah.

Obama is not so much apathetic, he just wavers way too much and doesn't want to come across the way Bush did. I will admit, a lot of things Bush did and said rubbed people the wrong way, but it's time Obama takes a stand and speaks out against the Muslim Brotherhood doing anything involving a new government.

Look at what is happening in Jordan and Tunisia as examples also. Islamist groups are joining in those movements, such as Tunisia's Al-Nahda People have shouted me down here and in the real world against the threat of radical Islam, much like people scoffed at folks like Churchill for condemning the Nazis and fascism as Hitler's shadow covered most of Europe. It's coming to fruition. Imagine what it took to stop Hitler and the Axis, I shudder to think what it will take to stop the Islamofascist movement if we don't act.
 

· Celestial Messiah
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Not a fan of the muslim botherhood. And this is coming from a guy who hates Mubarak and supports the 1979 revolution.

Plus, if you notice, there is pattern. You see only one group is purely to blame for all this. Maybe if the US cleans up their act one of these days this would stop fucking happening.
 

· Damn Fine Cup of Coffee
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not a fan of the muslim botherhood. And this is coming from a guy who hates Mubarak and supports the 1979 revolution.

Plus, if you notice, there is pattern. You see only one group is purely to blame for all this. Maybe if the US cleans up their act one of these days this would stop fucking happening.
Why a Sharia Law fan?

Even if the US did clean up it's act, that would not get rid of Islamic extremism in the area. We're a giant fucking superpower and that's more than enough to hate us.
 

· Celestial Messiah
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I wouldnt say im a fan per se, but its not so bad. Depends on the implementation really. The Irani version is superior to whatever the fuck theyre running in Saudi.

Look, its pretty simple. Is it really that much of a co-incidence that in all the countries where the US supports the dictator, the masses of people turn against the US and get turned to extremism?

Egypt today, Iran in 1979, Saudi today, the previous lebanese government, Jordan, a crapload of asian and south american countries in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

The US has a pretty shitty foreign policy. If they keep supporting these corrupt ammoral crackpots its no surprise the people will join the extremists. The US prides itself on democracy and freedom only when it suits them. When it doesnt, they declare the government illegal and push their own dictator.

They want to play God, and nobody should ever have the right to play God. Because if they do, it never ends well.
 

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The Muslim Brotherhood are not broadly supported in Egypt. There's a reason why they're not being seen to be directly involved on a public basis, through actions or speaking, unlike other opposition. It's because they don't have a broad voting support and if elections were held, they'd not be in a position to take power.

The fear of the Muslim Brotherhood is born out of 9/11 and an American ring-wing belief that the world ends on the day they do as much as breath.
 

· Celestial Messiah
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Egyptian mentaility can be broken down into four key sectors:

1) Nationalism
2) Hatred of Israel
3) Loving the national football team
4) Hating mubarak

Its not gonna be the brotherhood. I know a shitload of egyptians and very few are pro brotherhood. They like them, but not in favour of them taking over. If anything i see an idealistic man from the army taking control. Like a second abdul nasser.
 

· Damn Fine Cup of Coffee
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The Muslim Brotherhood are not broadly supported in Egypt. There's a reason why they're not being seen to be directly involved on a public basis, through actions or speaking, unlike other opposition. It's because they don't have a broad voting support and if elections were held, they'd not be in a position to take power.

The fear of the Muslim Brotherhood is born out of 9/11 and an American ring-wing belief that the world ends on the day they do as much as breath.
Not for me and many others. It's mainly a fear of religious crazies propping up Theocracy's like Iran's current regime everywhere. The fear is justified there. There has never been a good Theocracy.
 

· The Man
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Whatever happens, I just hope it's better for the Egyptians in the long run. I can't see radical Islam taking over the country though; there just don't seem to be enough supporters there so it doesn't seem like that is a very big threat, at least at the moment. It isn't as if radical Islam seems to be one of the main things heading this revolution, either.
 

· Damn Fine Cup of Coffee
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Again, US's own fault.

Supporting despots + weaponising radical islam = fucked up present and future
The US has a huge blame in all of this(training terrorists to fight regimes it doesn't like, etc.) but not solely. Without common support from the people in the countries, it would never take off. An overwhelmingly majority are Muslim which wouldn't exactly mean that Sharia Law and radicalism would be expected or tolerated but most countries in the Middle East are backwards enough to accept such things as right and justified. Even if most don't like it, it's seen as divine from their god and thus, cannot be questioned.

The Muslim world NEEDS Secularism to advance into the 21st century. If not, well, just look at Afghanistan.
 

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A lot of those protesters are secular. They're working with the Muslim Brotherhood because they're tired of that snake Mubarak. The U.S. certainly needs to stop backing dictators, and places like kfc need to stay the fuck out too.
 

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All I know is I'm sick of the Egypt bullshit on CNN. Our country is a fucking mess itself. The news orginizations need to report the bullshit that goes on here and stop exploiting other countries for RATINGS!!1


Basically good for them, but I don't give a shit.
 

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I've found very interesting news reports on Link TV with their Mosaic program. It's not quite like when the Berlin Wall as I watch everything unfold but I hope things turn out.

I love how it's either America's fault that we backed Mubarak or that we have sold out their government and turned our back on him. It's one or the other people, the anti-American blame America card just gets really old. We've done a lot of good in the Middle East and around the world, and we shouldn't have to apologize for it.
 

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You filmed that? o.o

Well,if the problem is either not supporting or over-supporting the government,why even mention it anyway?

imo Muslim countrys should stick with the sharia,I know it = war with christian countries,but so what?
It's their belief (that Allah's religion should be the only one on the universe),even though I believe it's absolute nonsense (I'm angnostic) but if the US believes in democracy and that equals freedom of belief,they should just stfu about it and stick out of it

tbh a theocracy who worked was the Islam empire before the middle age,they got most of the leftovers of the roman empire and conquered the land I now call home,so I'd consider that a success
 
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