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Discussion Starter #1
Dolph Ziggler thinks he's better than tag-team mediocrity, but is he really?

Pros:

He has a models face.

Cons:

Everything else.

Seriously, I don't understand the IWC infatuation with him. He's far too small, has zero mic-skills and sounds like a 16 year old kid when he's talking. His in-ring work is his one strong point but when he lacks in EVERY other department I really don't see how anyone can make a case that he deserves a meaningful singles run.

I'll no doubt get lambasted for saying this but Jack Swagger is the one who deserves "better than this". He looks like a star, is a legit athlete, is arguably the best mat-wrestler in the business, he cuts a very good promo (when allowed to, see: FCW and ECW work) and he plays the arrogant jock role very well. Apparently Brock is a big fan of him and Sheamus which, if Lesnar sticks around, could bode well.
 

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He has a great look, is charismatic, is marketable, has a good character, talks well on the mic (very underrated), excellent wrestler, excellent seller and has proven he is able to get heat on his own when given the chance (watch the segment he did with Foley)

So yes, he is 1000000% better than being resorted to tagging with Jack Swagless who other than wrestling ability has none of those quality's.

His tag team with Swagless and to be honest his partnership with Vickie too have completely run their course, it's time for a change and now is the right time imo.

How the hell is he "far too small"? he is the same size as current WWE Champion CM Punk, he is bigger than current number one contender Daniel Bryan. The "far too small" excuse on why a guy shouldn't be a star went out the window the moment Rey Mysterio won the Royal Rumble.

Jack Swagger looks like a star to you? :swagger2 that guy? he looks like a star to you and Dolph Ziggler doesn't? fpalm
 

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He has a great look, is charismatic, is marketable, has a good character, talks well on the mic (very underrated), excellent wrestler, excellent seller and has proven he is able to get heat on his own when given the chance (watch the segment he did with Foley)

So yes, he is 1000000% better than being resorted to tagging with Jack Swagless who other than wrestling ability has none of those quality's.

His tag team with Swagless and to be honest his partnership with Vickie too have completely run their course, it's time for a change and now is the right time imo.
LOL Charismatic,Marketable,Good Character and TALKS well on the mic :lmao YOU crack me up!
 

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Yes he is "better than this" Hes superb in the ring, not only at selling but his own ring skills are excellent;

I just dont get this argument about his mic skills! i could understand it if he actually had any mic time to prove one way or the other, but the last couple of times hes been able to talk for himself hes been actually fine and he was superb in the promo he did with foley!! His excerpts on ZTLis, and also his Download show (which has got better and better in my opinion), show that if given the time he would be perfectly fine on the mic and be much better than a lot of people on hte roster!

swagger has been given the chance before and went nowhere with it, he is awful on the Mic and i find him boring in the ring!
 

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Dolph is way better than this. Heck, even Swagger is better than to be used as a heel jobber whenever someone needs a win.
Ziggles is the total package.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I don't have a vendetta against him or anything and I don't mean to discredit his undoubted hard work but it's worth noting that the segment with Foley was part of a 2-show long experiment WWE did with canned heat. That night and either the week before or after, I can't remember, WWE tried out piping in heat/pops for live shows. They've not done it since so clearly it didn't go down well.

Dolph is like a modern-day Christian. He's too small and lacks the natural talent to break out as a singles star but is a very solid tag-teamer who would be good for a more-talented partner to tag with.
 

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Absolutely. He is one of the few natural heels that they have on roster. It's a shame that he isn't a main event heel already as WWE has completely dropped the ball with him.

He is has a character that garners instant heat from the crowd, great at selling, great wrestling skills, good look, and good mic skills. He's not the complete package as there's always room for improvement, but he's very close to being there.

However, if WWE is just planning on building him up to feed to him in a filler feud with Orton, then it would be pointless. That isn't going to get him anywhere. Orton is not going to put him over. Instead, what he should be doing is after Rhodes is done with Christian, line him up for a IC Title shot at SummerSlam and during the weeks leading to it, have him completely terrorize Christian on his way up the card. Christian will make him look amazing, he'll build up heat dominating a believable guy, and then he'll be ready for a main event feud.
 

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He is better than this. I want Ziggler to get a chance, at least, like the Miz did. If he disappoints then, then we know that he is an upper-mid carder.
If he doesn't (or if he fails because of Creative/Vince, not because of his flaws), we know that he truly is the future of the business.
 

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What more do you want from a promo?

I've never understood the hate for Ziggler. He's great in ring, good on the mic, has a good/unique look and gets good heat from the crowd.
 

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Charisma
Yes, watch him when he comes out, he has an aura about him, a presence if you will that makes you want to know more about him.

Marketable
Yes, his two "Show-Off" shirts were both in the top 10 best sellers on WWE Shopzone for quite a while, he has his own WWE produced show. Clearly he is marketable.

Character
Yes he does have a good character, he's taken the generic "cocky heel" character he was given and ran with it, his "Show-Off" character is one of the more interesting persona's around, he stands out.

Mic Skills
Yeah, when given the chance he has shown that he is very comfortable on the microphone. Watch his segment with Mick Foley, watch his promo on Raw in Mexico when they sang the US national anthem. When it comes to Dolph Ziggler's mic skills people on here are living in the past, yeah he used to suck that is no secret, but he has improved immensely.

Anything else?
 

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He has a great look, is charismatic, is marketable, has a good character, talks well on the mic (very underrated), excellent wrestler, excellent seller and has proven he is able to get heat on his own when given the chance (watch the segment he did with Foley)

So yes, he is 1000000% better than being resorted to tagging with Jack Swagless who other than wrestling ability has none of those quality's.

His tag team with Swagless and to be honest his partnership with Vickie too have completely run their course, it's time for a change and now is the right time imo.

How the hell is he "far too small"? he is the same size as current WWE Champion CM Punk, he is bigger than current number one contender Daniel Bryan. The "far too small" excuse on why a guy shouldn't be a star went out the window the moment Rey Mysterio won the Royal Rumble.

Jack Swagger looks like a star to you? :swagger2 that guy? he looks like a star to you and Dolph Ziggler doesn't? fpalm
Actually, Swagger looks like he will be a future inductee.

 
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You do realize he's reading off of a script right?
Almost every single Superstar reads off a script in their promos. Reading has nothing to do with mic skills. WWE is confident in his mic delivery to put him as a host of an internet show. I think perhaps you are just trying to ignore his mic skills to create a negative opinion of them.
 

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Charisma
Yes, watch him when he comes out, he has an aura about him, a presence if you will that makes you want to know more about him.Oh please he has less than Barry Stevens.If people actually cared about him they would boo or cheer him.Smarky Crowds do not count.If you see the casual crowds they boo Vickie Guerrero not The Cheerleader.

Marketable
Yes, his two "Show-Off" shirts were both in the top 10 best sellers on WWE Shopzone for quite a while, he has his own WWE produced show. Clearly he is marketable.hmmm..I wonder who bought those shirts.Oh yea smarks.

Character
Yes he does have a good character, he's taken the generic "cocky heel" character he was given and ran with it, his "Show-Off" character is one of the more interesting persona's around, he stands out.No he doesn't he's another generic heel.He just has a somewhat good entrance.THAT's IT.

Mic Skills
Yeah, when given the chance he has shown that he is very confortable on the microphone. Watch his segment with Mick Foley, watch his promo on Raw in Mexico when they sang the US national anthem. When it comes to Dolph Ziggler's mic skills people on here are living in the past, yeah he used to suck that is no secret, but he has improved immensly.He did have ONE just ONE good promo with MICK FOLEY.one of the best mic talkers in history.

Anything else?
Fixed it for ya.
 

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Are the mods moderating this right now? Without notice?

Part of my post is gone o_O
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Anyways, one of the things I don't get is this:
Ziggler has improved leaps and bounds in 2011, especially late in the year. He is incomparable to his old self.
One of the ways he has improved: Mic skills.

How do people not see this?
 

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Both Ziggler and Swagger are "better" than a heel tag team to job to the face champions IMO. If they are going to be a heel tag team, they should be the heel tag team that dominates the division and are the champions.

Now I know the love for Ziggler gets WAY over the top by some but, so does the Ziggler hate. The guy has what is needed to be a very sucessful singles wrestler (as does Swagger, except for the lisp in his speech, which could be fixed by giving him a mouthpiece)

But in the current creative environment the WWE seems to be in at least they are getting on the card every show for the msot part.
 

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Almost every single Superstar reads off a script in their promos. Reading has nothing to do with mic skills. WWE is confident in his mic delivery to put him as a host of an internet show. I think perhaps you are just trying to ignore his mic skills to create a negative opinion of them.
You said they gave him a show to showcase them.That's a recorded show so if he fails he can try again.On live TV you can't read off of a script.It would make you look like a complete moron.He's just another Tyson Kidd just with a better look.That's it.
 

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Are the mods moderating this right now? Without notice?

Part of my post is gone o_O
DoubleAwesome was warned for some of his posts which were inciting a lot of arguing. I decided the best thing to do was to remove them and allow the thread to continue without the stupidity.
 

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He's one of the best workers in the WWE. Yes he is better than this.
 

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@Shock
Understandable, just checking.

Can you just ban him for a few minutes or something, though? He can't even quote-reply the right way. o_O
He's just trolling on purpose, I believe.

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I agree with A-C-P.
Both deserve more, and it should start with more Creative guidance.
Been checking both of their Wiki pages, and the person who said that Swagger has a better amateur background: Ziggler is actually a bigger success as a amateur wrestler AND he has received far, far superior pro wrestling training.
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I agree with what
 
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