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Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?

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Discussion Starter #421
I'd probably be banned for Banter ;)

1- Well Khan clearly can because he is. 😂 Next
2- We've already debated TV debuts and I destroyed you and Woods pathetic argument on the subject. All real comparables have had significant dropes from their debut, and almost (90%+) all TV shows, even the most succesfull/mainstreams ones, including live shows, have the same trend of dropping big in viewership. Any person with a functioning brain would be looking at their first 2-3month average and compare with now, looking at a single predicted peak-data is a skewed way of looking at it. Go find me all those TV shows that started in 2015-now timeframe where there is significant increase after the premier episode. I've already showed a list of many successful mainstream ones who are still considered successful despite this significant premier drop. But, you do not want to be reasonable.
3- 😂😂 1K+ post in a month shitting on a product says otherwise.
4- So he's losing money? you're his accountant? If he's capable of spending money on Matt's stuff, don't you think he's making money? or he is borrowing from his dad again? you don't know, I don't know, but my assumpions are more reasonnable than yours.
5- Not playing this game.
6- "built badly" again, subjective, context, and not a fact. A better analogy is that It's also a house in progress that being built infront of your eyes on national TV and you're just shitting on the construction because it's not the same methodes of 30 years ago.
1. He's doing it poorly. Again, I can go and build a house poorly it doesn't mean I deserve to be praised for doing my job poorly.

2. And I've already showed you (Or someone else) a list of many successful shows that very quickly grew.

3. You make posts about me all the time does that mean you're jealous of me? You can discuss something in a negative way without being jealous of them.

4. I'm suggesting if he's making money it's not a lot of money. I don't think he'd operate at a loss unless he's a true money mark but I could see him spending most of that 45 million annually.

5. Lol. The "You have a good point but I don't want to admit it" argument

6. Did I ever say it was a fact? You don't build your house on national TV you build it first then show it off on TV. I'm shitting on the methods because they're not good.
 

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1. He's doing it poorly. Again, I can go and build a house poorly it doesn't mean I deserve to be praised for doing my job poorly.

2. And I've already showed you (Or someone else) a list of many successful shows that very quickly grew.

3. You make posts about me all the time does that mean you're jealous of me? You can discuss something in a negative way without being jealous of them.

4. I'm suggesting if he's making money it's not a lot of money. I don't think he'd operate at a loss unless he's a true money mark but I could see him spending most of that 45 million annually.

5. Lol. The "You have a good point but I don't want to admit it" argument

6. Did I ever say it was a fact? You don't build your house on national TV you build it first then show it off on TV. I'm shitting on the methods because they're not good.

1- No. He's clearly not.
2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
4- It's called investing in growth then.
5- No, the take this to rants route.
6- You still don't get it, if he wants to build it on national TV, and he can do it, and he is doing it, it's not up to you decide if it's "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "bad". It's clearly good enough with great potential, and TV wise they're doing well, and business wise they're doing well, so by all metrics, you are wrong or you don't understand TK's vision is.
 

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1- No. He's clearly not.
2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
4- It's called investing in growth then.
5- No, the take this to rants route.
6- You still don't get it, if he wants to build it on national TV, and he can do it, and he is doing it, it's not up to you decide if it's "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "bad". It's clearly good enough with great potential, and TV wise they're doing well, and business wise they're doing well, so by all metrics, you are wrong or you don't understand TK's vision is.
5. So you can make incorrect assumptions but won't discuss them? Pretty weak if you ask me, but we all know how you work.
 

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Discussion Starter #424
1- No. He's clearly not.
2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
4- It's called investing in growth then.
5- No, the take this to rants route.
6- You still don't get it, if he wants to build it on national TV, and he can do it, and he is doing it, it's not up to you decide if it's "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "bad". It's clearly good enough with great potential, and TV wise they're doing well, and business wise they're doing well, so by all metrics, you are wrong or you don't understand TK's vision is.
1. Okay, so if Khan is this great booker and does really well writing week to week television how come AEW has either 1. Lost 50% of it's audience orrrr 2. Not been able to see significant growth? And why do I not like it? I love great booking.

2. I used Two And A Half Men as an example which is a 2000's show. You've moved the goalposts to 2015-2020 shows because you were proved wrong.

3. You don't regularly quote me, discuss me and have this lame little feud with me? You don't recall coming back with a rant full of abuse for the people who were amused by you getting banned? If we are jealous of Tony because we talk badly about him then you are of the people you talk badly about.

4. Investing in growth that isn't occurring despite how hard TK tries. Allegedly he's doing a good job though...

5. Cop out

6. That makes no sense. Why would you put an unfinished product on the air where people learn on the job? Seems reckless and stupid.
 

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1. Okay, so if Khan is this great booker and does really well writing week to week television how come AEW has either 1. Lost 50% of it's audience orrrr 2. Not been able to see significant growth? And why do I not like it? I love great booking.

2. I used Two And A Half Men as an example which is a 2000's show. You've moved the goalposts to 2015-2020 shows because you were proved wrong.

3. You don't regularly quote me, discuss me and have this lame little feud with me? You don't recall coming back with a rant full of abuse for the people who were amused by you getting banned? If we are jealous of Tony because we talk badly about him then you are of the people you talk badly about.

4. Investing in growth that isn't occurring despite how hard TK tries. Allegedly he's doing a good job though...

5. Cop out

6. That makes no sense. Why would you put an unfinished product on the air where people learn on the job? Seems reckless and stupid.
this is funny, "regularly" quote you? says the low-life who has 1K+ posts in the section of Wrestling Company he hates. You're spreading you're BS everywhere, and I haven't even been that active in the past month or so, or please do show me. And I don't go around saying "If I were Chip" Like you do when you say "If I where Khan" every week like an obsessed basement dweller.

lol imaging inserting failed arguments into each-other.

I just realized why we don't get along, I'm sorry, but this will be our last discussion, I just finally realized the level of intelligence of people i'm talking to here.
If you think a show from the early 2000s is comparable to the 2015-now timeframe with the rise of more alternatives and streaming services, you live in the past, way past, we aren't even on the same planet, so no wonder you are an absolutist nitpicker with no awareness or has the ability to adapt to the world around him. Bye Felicia!
 

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Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.

No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.

I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.

Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.
 
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Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.
It seems his mistaking product quality to promoter. let's check promoter definition according merriam webster

one that promotes especially : one who assumes the financial responsibilities of a sporting event (such as a boxing match) including contracting with the principals, renting the site, and collecting gate receipts
None of those above implying about the product quality.
 

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He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
Ridiculous.

Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
What's important is that he turns a profit for him in a spam of set time period, usually 2-5 years, and if he can do that playing by his own rules, fair play to him.
He's maintained his viewership for a year now and that's when wrestling is suffering due to no crowds.
It's not ridiculous. The idea of this forum and topic is to debate every possible scenario. I like to analyse and evaluate what could have worked better, done better, been more profitable in the long term. More importantly, been more fun for wrestling fans. I think it's fair to say none of us have that kind of money laying around lol.

I did say in the post we don't know what budgeting restrictions were in place or whether TNT were dictating the time slot.

All I know is that WWE are ruthless, so it's unsurprising they put NXT head to head. This quasi war has been more beneficial for WWE's third brand than it has for AEW. Raw in the summer of 2019 was the pits. Sometimes it's better to take the fight to the big dog than get dragged into a minor battle. But you've got to spend to accumulate.
 

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It's not ridiculous. The idea of this forum and topic is to debate every possible scenario. I like to analyse and evaluate what could have worked better, done better, been more profitable in the long term. More importantly, been more fun for wrestling fans. I think it's fair to say none of us have that kind of money laying around lol.

I did say in the post we don't know what budgeting restrictions were in place or whether TNT were dictating the time slot.

All I know is that WWE are ruthless, so it's unsurprising they put NXT head to head. This quasi war has been more beneficial for WWE's third brand than it has for AEW. Raw in the summer of 2019 was the pits. Sometimes it's better to take the fight to the big dog than get dragged into a minor battle. But you've got to spend to accumulate.
Of course, but then that's just fantasy booking and not really realistic, budget constraints are a real thing and the risks they were taking were uncertain.

And WWE can be ruthless all they want, it's a good move by them, a very good strategic move. The war isn't beneficial to the winner, because they're winning and the war is only making their total support show less.
But what you're saying doesnt matter much, even if it gave NXT a bigger platform and was beneficial to NXT, and even if NXT's existance is taking some viewers away from AEW, the quasi-war is a win for AEW and TNT, instead of the guaranteed loss they'd have been given vs RAW.
 

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Basically, chips asked a question, but if you don’t give the answer he wants he’ll argue with you, then he’ll moan he’s allowed an opinion etc.....I’ve been of here a month or so, guess what the same bloke is talking the same shit, I’ve no idea how you find the energy.
You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?

Heaven forbid!
 

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Discussion Starter #432
this is funny, "regularly" quote you? says the low-life who has 1K+ posts in the section of Wrestling Company he hates. You're spreading you're BS everywhere, and I haven't even been that active in the past month or so, or please do show me. And I don't go around saying "If I were Chip" Like you do when you say "If I where Khan" every week like an obsessed basement dweller.
Yeah, you're such a great and mature poster.

This is you from 3 weeks ago instead we're all low lives. Probably best we don't talk anymore :)

Listen Bitch

You are the most irrelevant member of the stooges, you’re nothing but a parrot, a wanabe, and the stupidest member of this forum.
I've only needed one discussion with you motherfucker to realize you have no idea what you’re talking about. And you little fucking bitch, I am the one who always attacks the points, and then when you deflect, you bet your ass I’m gona call you a fucking moron.

That’s all you know bitch, simple deflecting, hell the other time when a user calls you on using fake sources and you reply with “well sometimes I use real ones” FUCK OFF YOU BASEMENT DWELLING MORON. I bet even your little friends laugh at your stupidity behind your back.

Now,

@Chip Chipperson

Fuck you.
I don't give a fuck about you or your family. I am going to repeat it now, you are a cancer to this forum.
And everytime you post crap like this, I will call you cancer again.



Fuck you.

And i told you this before motherfucker, how do i know you're an arrogant piece of shit?
Everyfuckingtime you posted "this is so stupid, how could anybody enjoy this" "you must be stupid to enjoy this", knowing damn well there's Hundreds of thousands of people who actually enjoy this.

There's legit people who criticize AEW for real stuff, and then there's cunts like you who make up scenarios, stupid ones who talk about ratings going down from 1.4 to whatever (as if that's relevant when you could have been saying that in fucking november you fucking loser). You might be able to fool some of them, but you ain't fooling me you low-life dork.

and the truth comes out @fabi1982 you little bitch. What a fucking mark and WWE apologist.
You're mad at me for criticising WWE. You fucking cunt i haven't given a shit about WWE since 2017, and my criticism is nothing but the usual and i don't hammer down the points like you clowns do for AEW. Most importantly, I am not stupid enough to compare a fucking 70 year conglomerate to a start-up barely a year old. And I certainly won't be putting Vince on the same human level as Tony Khan, unlike you jealous bitter marks looking to shit on a guy who does things differently than what your psychotic boomer parents thought you.
Also, I certainly am not some fucking pathetic loser who signs up on a forum, or only starts using a forum after 8-9 years because i felt the need to shit on a new product which nobody forced me to watch 😂



Fuck off bitch, If you've been following the news you know it's not the time to bring back our old argument (proving me right more and more)
You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?

Heaven forbid!
Many just want an echo chamber on here. You would know that being here as regularly as you are :)
 

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Hello friends

I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear. During the Hardy Vs Guevara review they read an email from a fan who knew someone who helped produce the "match"

The person reported that the "match" had a crew of 300 people who all were paid obviously and had all been provided hotel rooms despite many living locally. The crew member reported that it took all night to shoot, was one of the most expensive shoots she's been involved in, that everyone commented on how astronomically expensive it was and remarked that there was a giddy man wearing a hoodie marking out for everything. The crew member commented that it was the stupidest thing she'd ever seen and that Sammy Guevara looked 16 (Although allegedly was very nice)

Perhaps naively I've always given Tony the benefit of the doubt. No, he isn't a wrestling guy and doesn't know what he's doing there but I've always assumed that he's a half decent business man. I no longer give him that benefit of the doubt.

With his awful business decisions, the bad eye for talent, the ridiculous booking, the overspending, the fact he's easily influenced etc etc etc can we rightfully say that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter ever?

If not who is? Because I can't think of one.

Note: Mainstream in this circumstance means major promotion with week to week television
Hello friends

I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear. During the Hardy Vs Guevara review they read an email from a fan who knew someone who helped produce the "match"

The person reported that the "match" had a crew of 300 people who all were paid obviously and had all been provided hotel rooms despite many living locally. The crew member reported that it took all night to shoot, was one of the most expensive shoots she's been involved in, that everyone commented on how astronomically expensive it was and remarked that there was a giddy man wearing a hoodie marking out for everything. The crew member commented that it was the stupidest thing she'd ever seen and that Sammy Guevara looked 16 (Although allegedly was very nice)

Perhaps naively I've always given Tony the benefit of the doubt. No, he isn't a wrestling guy and doesn't know what he's doing there but I've always assumed that he's a half decent business man. I no longer give him that benefit of the doubt.

With his awful business decisions, the bad eye for talent, the ridiculous booking, the overspending, the fact he's easily influenced etc etc etc can we rightfully say that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter ever?

If not who is? Because I can't think of one.

Note: Mainstream in this circumstance means major promotion with week to week television
this is silly. Also think Cornette ran his business into ground by flying everyone on private jets....not that I care ....but since you brought up going bankrupt
 

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Twenty two pages and the answer is still YES (y)
The vote poll says otherwise (aka 67% of the people who participated on here are correct).
 

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Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.
My guy read the thread first. You’re asking the same questions others have asked me and I have already explained why I said what I said.
 

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You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?

Heaven forbid!
He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.
 

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Yet AEW couldn't do a million plus when Tyson turned up...
It says more about AEW then Mike Tyson. Most boxing fans don't give a shit about 2020 pro wrestling. Mike Tyson even at the age of 50 is far more relevant then AEW.

For example, towards the end of last year Tyson Fury showed up to RAW and didn't increase their ratings at all, but his fight vs Wilder got something like 850k ppv buys few months later. And that ppv was 70 bucks if I remember correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #438
this is silly. Also think Cornette ran his business into ground by flying everyone on private jets....not that I care ....but since you brought up going bankrupt
I've literally never heard anyone mention Cornette flying people around on private jets. You are talking about Jim Crockett who did that.

He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.
Yes, because you don't shove your opinions down anyone's throat at all, lol. Aren't you the bloke that said Orange Cassidy was an 8/10 on the mic and had a hissy fit when people disagreed? Jog on.
 

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Yes, because you don't shove your opinions down anyone's throat at all, lol. Aren't you the bloke that said Orange Cassidy was an 8/10 on the mic and had a hissy fit when people disagreed? Jog on.
Oh, don't give me that nonsense :LOL:

The rating might have been somewhat high, but a generous 8/10 is still more accurate than the handful (and a half) of folks who irrationally gave Orange Cassidy 0s, 1s, or 2s on the mic (due to their hatred for him) when he can talk well enough from the limited lines he's had so far.

Anyway, get back to me whenever I start a ridiculous thread in the future where I ask everyone if Tony Khan is the greatest mainstream promoter of all time (which I won't btw since that's hyperbole). Then we can talk about me "shoving my opinions down everyone's throats."
 

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He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
Ridiculous.

Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
What's important is that he turns a profit for him in a spam of set time period, usually 2-5 years, and if he can do that playing by his own rules, fair play to him.
He's maintained his viewership for a year now and that's when wrestling is suffering due to no crowds.
It’s not his money, it’s his dad’s money.

These posts are exactly why none of you would make it as an owner of a wrestling company. You're mad that AEW didn't immediately go up against RAW, when you can pinpoint that being the very reason for TNA's downfall. You also want AEW to sign all the misused WWE talent, and by signing all of them you've essentially created a WWE lite which is what you don't really want. The problem is that AEW boxed themselves in by making sure to constantly take shots at the WWE and swear that they would be nothing like them. Now they've tried the indie angle and that hasn't increased viewership, so now they're going the sports entertainment route which will yield the same results. They should've just carved their own little niche and built themselves up over time like TNA did from 02-09.
I specifically said I don’t think they should go against Raw. Nice job. AEW being WWE Lite is why I am dissatisfied with it. Signing top stars away from the WWE would make it more like WCW. Their “niche

no not "fact".
if despite him doing it "free for all", then even if he "borrowed this money from his dad", it doesn't matter. It's a start-up when eventually you need to make a return on your investment, if the guy is doing his thing and will still be breaking even in 2-5 years and that's despite what you call free for all (Allow EVPs to hire their friends and do whatever), that's good for him. He gets to stick to his values, he gets to keep his word to the EVPs who inspired him to take the initial risk to do AEW, and he's still making money.

And you're here telling me "I could do better", well we'll never know, you don't know the circumstances of everything that happened, and for all the success AEW has had, all the naysayers can say to counter it
"but it should be better" "I can do better" "Tony is wasting his money", nothing but opinions from biased absolutist nitpickers who fail to see the bigger the picture.
Seeing the bigger picture is why I cringed at the early moves AEW made. Turns out I was rifhf

Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.
A large reason the business has trended downwards is because of its quality (or lack thereof).

He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.
His opinions aren’t toxic and he posts them. On a message board. That’s what you’re supposed to do.

It says more about AEW then Mike Tyson. Most boxing fans don't give a shit about 2020 pro wrestling. Mike Tyson even at the age of 50 is far more relevant then AEW.

For example, towards the end of last year Tyson Fury showed up to RAW and didn't increase their ratings at all, but his fight vs Wilder got something like 850k ppv buys few months later. And that ppv was 70 bucks if I remember correctly.
Man, AEW would get giddy at the thought of 85k
Oh, don't give me that nonsense :LOL:

The rating might have been somewhat high, but a generous 8/10 is still more accurate than the handful (and a half) of folks who irrationally gave Orange Cassidy 0s, 1s, or 2s on the mic (due to their hatred for him) when he can talk well enough from the limited lines he's had so far.

Anyway, get back to me whenever I start a ridiculous thread in the future where I ask everyone if Tony Khan is the greatest mainstream promoter of all time (which I won't btw since that's hyperbole). Then we can talk about me "shoving my opinions down everyone's throats."
Orange Cassidy’s only promos have been AWFUL. Point to one promo that you think is a 6 or higher.
 
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