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Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?

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Great post

It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.

I think Khan will forever regret -
1) Not taking the fight to Raw from day one
2) Not going all in for Punk, Orton and Edge
3) Not focusing on what has always hooked fans in as opposed to how he, Kenny and the Bucks view wrestling.

Actually scrap the last one. They'll never fully get how the core basics and emotion baiting draws money over a self referential too cool for school attitude. I mean, to this day Russo still doesn't get why what he wrote for Vince McMahon didn't have the same impact in other products.

But maybe I shouldn't be too hard. I don't know for sure whether TNT would put them on a Monday or what the budget is/was or had he failed to secure a long term TV deal what the implications would be.

As a fan it's very disappointing.
He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
Ridiculous.

Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
What's important is that he turns a profit for him in a spam of set time period, usually 2-5 years, and if he can do that playing by his own rules, fair play to him.
He's maintained his viewership for a year now and that's when wrestling is suffering due to no crowds.
 

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Great post

It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.

I think Khan will forever regret -
1) Not taking the fight to Raw from day one
2) Not going all in for Punk, Orton and Edge
3) Not focusing on what has always hooked fans in as opposed to how he, Kenny and the Bucks view wrestling.

Actually scrap the last one. They'll never fully get how the core basics and emotion baiting draws money over a self referential too cool for school attitude. I mean, to this day Russo still doesn't get why what he wrote for Vince McMahon didn't have the same impact in other products.

But maybe I shouldn't be too hard. I don't know for sure whether TNT would put them on a Monday or what the budget is/was or had he failed to secure a long term TV deal what the implications would be.

As a fan it's very disappointing.
No, I haven’t been watching recently. I want something GOOD. AEW promises more of the BAD. No one wants more bad wrestling.

You’re not going to take away WWE’s entire audience, but you can go after those fatigued fans, lapsed fans and honest-to-god wrestling fans. Airing on a different night you might be able to convince several hundred thousand viewers to give you a shot from WWE’s base. But no.

A failed opportunity to triangulate and fill the gap in the market. They just wanted to stick their dick in a glory hole.



He might end up worse yet. Let’s see how this all turns out!



I agree with almost everything here except I don’t know if they should have gone against Raw yet. There could have been a time and a place for that, but I don’t think 2019 was it. Wednesday was a fine night, but they absolutely needed to deliver a show that received with more legitimacy than Dynamite became. The bad decisions started happening night one, but did get worse and worse.

Pissing off CM Punk was a giant mistake. I will not back down from that point. Offending him with how they approached him, just assuming he would be in, doing a silly PWG style product that is never going to take it to Vince. That fucked them. When Punk signed with FOX to talk about WWE, that sent some pretty silent shockwaves through the wrestling world. EVERYONE worth a shit, EVERYONE has signed with Vince.

If you get Punk, you might get Velasquez. I can hear AEW fans whinging. People were high on his potential until the WWE decision. If you get them, you might get Randy Orton. If you get Randy Orton, hell, you might have been able to get Brock Lesnar. If you got these names, and didn’t do the silly shit, you may have been able to get Jim Cornette cutting promos for FTR and doing commentary with JR on odd occasions. Smarter decisions with the women would have stopped so many of them signing with WWE first chance. You might be looking at Ronda Rousey becoming a free agent soon. Charlotte Flair’s relationship with WWE may not be as stable as people think if you have somewhere for her and her husband to go.

All of a sudden a lot of the people you gave a shit about in WWE (or you didn’t but others did) are jumping, hurting Vince and helping AEW. Bryan Danielson, The Fatus (man is that looking stupid now), AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura — they all had deals come up and AEW fail to get any of them. Rey Mysterio and Kevin Steen chose WWE too. You have Orton and Punk do you think it’s more likely Rey jumps? What about Jeff Hardy?

And don’t say there’s not things for these people to do. Jeff Hardy/Darby Allin (tag team/friendly rivalry), Rey Mysterio/Fenix, Brock/Omega (he’ll make Omega sell), Orton/Cody, Punk/Page. That’s drawing more on PPV than at least two of their existing shows put together.

If they had taken this seriously, they might have been able to smooth things over with New Japan. A bigger presence for AEW and more top stars just makes them more valuable. You can do that Omega vs. Okada match. You can do Jericho vs. Tanahashi on US soil. They may not all be PPV headliners, but they could do B/R Live specials. Or TNT specials. Or have Brock headline a PPV with Omega and Okada on it.

All this pissed away because they don’t have a serious philosophy, they were arrogant, they pissed off the top guys they tried to get in (Punk and Orton have both spoken out about this) and they value Marko fucking Stunt over this hypothetical world where wrestling fans have a fucking ace wrestling show that feels IMPORTANT.

And guess what? Those ratings are going to be higher. Those buys are going to be higher. Those shirts are going to sell more. Those arenas are going to have more people in them. More people will pick up the video game. More billionaires might look at wrestling as something viable, so when someone starts to get stale (as Moxley and Jericho are starting to get), you can send them somewhere else that isn’t WWE.

Now our only hope for this is for someone to see the giant gap in the market, pick up Punk, Orton and Ronda and hope that enough WWE contracts come up for you to replenish stars.

DAZN getting behind MLW, Sinclair behind ROH or someone new coming in entirely are the big hopes for people who want to see pro-wrestling and not subpar sports entertainment aimed at 57% of the Raw audience.
These posts are exactly why none of you would make it as an owner of a wrestling company. You're mad that AEW didn't immediately go up against RAW, when you can pinpoint that being the very reason for TNA's downfall. You also want AEW to sign all the misused WWE talent, and by signing all of them you've essentially created a WWE lite which is what you don't really want. The problem is that AEW boxed themselves in by making sure to constantly take shots at the WWE and swear that they would be nothing like them. Now they've tried the indie angle and that hasn't increased viewership, so now they're going the sports entertainment route which will yield the same results. They should've just carved their own little niche and built themselves up over time like TNA did from 02-09.
 

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He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
Ridiculous.

Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
What's important is that he turns a profit for him in a spam of set time period, usually 2-5 years, and if he can do that playing by his own rules, fair play to him.
He's maintained his viewership for a year now and that's when wrestling is suffering due to no crowds.
Haha "your own money". Thanks for the millions, dad.
 

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haha "you have no argument and you're just an entitled stubborn fan with no idea how to run a business"
Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want.

How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?
 

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Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want.

How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?
Doubtful
 

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Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want.

How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?
no not "fact".
if despite him doing it "free for all", then even if he "borrowed this money from his dad", it doesn't matter. It's a start-up when eventually you need to make a return on your investment, if the guy is doing his thing and will still be breaking even in 2-5 years and that's despite what you call free for all (Allow EVPs to hire their friends and do whatever), that's good for him. He gets to stick to his values, he gets to keep his word to the EVPs who inspired him to take the initial risk to do AEW, and he's still making money.

And you're here telling me "I could do better", well we'll never know, you don't know the circumstances of everything that happened, and for all the success AEW has had, all the naysayers can say to counter it
"but it should be better" "I can do better" "Tony is wasting his money", nothing but opinions from biased absolutist nitpickers who fail to see the bigger the picture.
 

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Discussion Starter #409
Anyone could do better. Anyone who doesn't think it's possible for the average joe to do better than Tony Khan doesn't know anything about professional wrestling in my honest opinion.
 

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Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.
 

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Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.
What was Tony Khans experience in the industry before AEW? The guy is an average Joe in this particular industry..

Edit: Also, what the fuck is our agenda? Wanting better wrestling?
 

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Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.
lol ridiculous post. You're self projecting, why would someone care that Khan is a rich kid living his dream, that didn't even come to mind until you mentioned it. It's impressive to you because you wouldn't do any better so your brain can't comprehend it.

Khan's only in this position because of his dad and contacts by being the son of a billionaire. If he wasn't his son he'd be on the same level as Brandi, gone to a good uni, and would have a high paying numbers based job. He's a dork wrestling fan that didn't stop watching wrestling no matter how bad it got because his taste is truly that awful, hence why the product is garbage.
 

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lol ridiculous post. You're self projecting, why would someone care that Khan is a rich kid living his dream, that didn't even come to mind until you mentioned it. It's impressive to you because you wouldn't do any better so your brain can't comprehend it.

Khan's only in this position because of his dad and contacts by being the son of a billionaire. If he wasn't his son he'd be on the same level as Brandi, gone to a good uni, and would have a high paying numbers based job. He's a dork wrestling fan that didn't stop watching wrestling no matter how bad it got because his taste is truly that awful, hence why the product is garbage.
And you missed the entire point.
There are a lot of people here, in this thread, who keep saying "If I were booking", "If I were Khan", am i really self-projecting here?
Nobody is denying he's where he's at because of his connections, same can be said about hundreds of billionaires including Vince 😂but TK's made those connections, got his funding, all he has to do is make a return on his investment in a set period of time, that's the business aspect of it which you all fail to comprehend for some reason.

You calling him a dork wrestling fan shows much more about you 😂 If he wasn't a wrestling fan, there'd be no AEW. if you're basically admitting that's what you want, you're proving my point, so go hope on the hate train of AEW/TK-bangwaggon.
 

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And you missed the entire point.
There are a lot of people here, in this thread, who keep saying "If I were booking", "If I were Khan", am i really self-projecting here?
Nobody is denying he's where he's at because of his connections, same can be said about hundreds of billionaires including Vince 😂but TK's made those connections, got his funding, all he has to do is make a return on his investment in a set period of time, that's the business aspect of it which you all fail to comprehend for some reason.

You calling him a dork wrestling fan shows much more about you 😂 If he wasn't a wrestling fan, there'd be no AEW. if you're basically admitting that's what you want, you're proving my point, so go hope on the hate train of AEW/TK-bangwaggon.
No you're missing the entire point. No one would be mentioning Khan only being there because of his dad if he were any good. So you mentioning how people bring it up because they're jelous is nonsensical.

lmao, so you calling people dorks in your original posts doesn't say anything about you, but me saying it about Khan says something about me?

I think people like you just need to accept that some people think what they like is garbage, and try not to feel insecure about it.
 

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No you're missing the entire point. No one would be mentioning Khan only being there because of his dad if he were any good. So you mentioning how people bring it up because they're jelous is nonsensical.

lmao, so you calling people dorks in your original posts doesn't say anything about you, but me saying it about Khan says something about me?

I think people like you just need to accept that some people think what they like is garbage, and try not to feel insecure about it.
I don't think much about it, but I'm still going to call people by what they are lol.
You're just clearly one of those typical people who will complain "the product is trash" "tony khan is not good" and think it's an undisputed fact, when you don't even have a context defined and don't understand someone business' decisions and motives, and yet, you're still following their every move checking on them wanting them to fail. Pathetic.
 

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Discussion Starter #416
Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.
Ooooh this oozes with passive aggressiveness. Tag me next time.

1. Average Joe probably couldn't book week to week TV but Khan can't either. Dropped angles every week, allegedly blowing massive amounts of money, story lines that he does stick with often range from very average to poor/bad. Average Joe might be intelligent enough to spend their big budget on hiring someone who can write compelling week to week TV though (Cult has said he'd do this before)

2. He hasn't retained his audience he's lost 50% of it. 1.4 million down to between 700-750k a week and looking like it'll continue to drop as shows remain average to poor.

3. We've gone through the jealousy stuff, I wouldn't want to run a big major wrestling company because I have a similar paranoia to Paul Heyman where I like to have my fingers in everything. I'm also generally not a jealous person but you clearly are, lol.

4. He "made bank"? How so? He's clearly been losing money hence why he's rushed a limited audience back into his arena. He admittedly got a half decent TV deal but 45 million dollars isn't that much when your roster is 25-30 million in value and you're dropping huge money on Matt Hardy segments.

5. Cult brings up a good point, what is our agenda exactly? We don't like Tony because his booking is bad. Is our agenda good shows and booking?

6. He did it his own way without compromising his views? Yeah cool maybe if he was producing an awesome product this would be a positive but he does things badly and doesn't know what he's doing. That's like someone being sad that their house is built badly and you saying "Welp, he did it his own way without compromising his views so we have to give him credit for that". No we don't, the house is still shitty...
 

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Chip you blanking me, thanks man. Thought we was good obviously not.
 

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Ooooh this oozes with passive aggressiveness. Tag me next time.

1. Average Joe probably couldn't book week to week TV but Khan can't either. Dropped angles every week, allegedly blowing massive amounts of money, story lines that he does stick with often range from very average to poor/bad. Average Joe might be intelligent enough to spend their big budget on hiring someone who can write compelling week to week TV though (Cult has said he'd do this before)

2. He hasn't retained his audience he's lost 50% of it. 1.4 million down to between 700-750k a week and looking like it'll continue to drop as shows remain average to poor.

3. We've gone through the jealousy stuff, I wouldn't want to run a big major wrestling company because I have a similar paranoia to Paul Heyman where I like to have my fingers in everything. I'm also generally not a jealous person but you clearly are, lol.

4. He "made bank"? How so? He's clearly been losing money hence why he's rushed a limited audience back into his arena. He admittedly got a half decent TV deal but 45 million dollars isn't that much when your roster is 25-30 million in value and you're dropping huge money on Matt Hardy segments.

5. Cult brings up a good point, what is our agenda exactly? We don't like Tony because his booking is bad. Is our agenda good shows and booking?

6. He did it his own way without compromising his views? Yeah cool maybe if he was producing an awesome product this would be a positive but he does things badly and doesn't know what he's doing. That's like someone being sad that their house is built badly and you saying "Welp, he did it his own way without compromising his views so we have to give him credit for that". No we don't, the house is still shitty...
I'd probably be banned for Banter ;)

1- Well Khan clearly can because he is. 😂 Next
2- We've already debated TV debuts and I destroyed you and Woods pathetic argument on the subject. All real comparables have had significant dropes from their debut, and almost (90%+) all TV shows, even the most succesfull/mainstreams ones, including live shows, have the same trend of dropping big in viewership. Any person with a functioning brain would be looking at their first 2-3month average and compare with now, looking at a single predicted peak-data is a skewed way of looking at it. Go find me all those TV shows that started in 2015-now timeframe where there is significant increase after the premier episode. I've already showed a list of many successful mainstream ones who are still considered successful despite this significant premier drop. But, you do not want to be reasonable.
3- 😂😂 1K+ post in a month shitting on a product says otherwise.
4- So he's losing money? you're his accountant? If he's capable of spending money on Matt's stuff, don't you think he's making money? or he is borrowing from his dad again? you don't know, I don't know, but my assumpions are more reasonnable than yours.
5- Not playing this game.
6- "built badly" again, subjective, context, and not a fact. A better analogy is that It's also a house in progress that being built infront of your eyes on national TV and you're just shitting on the construction because it's not the same methodes of 30 years ago.
 

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@Chip Chipperson when u said AEW fans like everything and I responded I don't in the PAC thread, we good. I hate the way they book " Big guy " wrestlers in AEW, it is so annoying, it's or there's Big they need to be heels, which is a shite way of booking. Now Hobbs has turned heel ( prime example ) Is this to replace Penta as he turned face this week, God only knows .

What a shit ending to a good show this week.
 
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