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Who is to blame?

  • Creative

    Votes: 20 74.1%
  • Wrestlers themselves

    Votes: 7 25.9%

  • Total voters
    27
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm speaking in terms of how well a wrestler can get over.

We have seen great wrestlers/speakers (Daniel Bryan (good wrestler) and Dolph Ziggler (Good wrestler and now we have seen pretty good mic worker) given bad gimmicks or no promo time. Daniel Bryan is Mr. Money in the Bank and is (as of now, maybe kayfabe) planned to wrestle for the WH Championship at Mania 28. But he is booked on a losing streak and has been given minimal promo time. Ziggler is the US Champion and for most of his career now, has had to play backseat to Vicky Guererro. Then when he speaks finally, we find he is actually good on the mic (maybe not great, but he is good).

On the other hand, we have more creative gimmicks and whatnot given to guys who dont really do anything with it. Someone that comes to mind is Ted Dibiase. He was given the millionaire gimmick like his father but he was BORING. With a gimmick like that, even if it has been done before, has potential to be very entertaining, but he didnt do anything with it.

So again, who would you say is to blame more for wrestlers not getting over sometimes. The creative team putting together the gimmicks/storylines and whatnot? Or the wrestlers themselves who dont use the tools given to them to make something work?
 

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100% Straight Fire
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Yeah, it varies from case to case. I'd say the majority of the time it has to be a bit of both, though. Creative could be amazing but if the performers sucked the product would suck. The same is true in reverse.
 

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Creative for sure and bryan can cut a decent promo, they should of made him winning the briefcase a big deal and booked him to appear on this super show raw thing that they are doing and making him lose alot is silly, i can understand him losing to del rio and christain but sin cara? he has only been in the company for five minutes.As for ziggler he does not really need vicki but this current storyline will see him ditch her for good as swagger would benifit from her services.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
^^I would agree with both of you for the most part. But theres a part of me that wants to say the wrestlers, if a true performer/entertainer, should be able to take the worst idea possible and make it somewhat entertaining. I guess you can look at Zack Ryder as an example. His gimmick at first was extremely annoying to me and I never thought it would get over. Then after ECW ended, he became a jobber. BUT, he started the youtube series and basically made his character known and loved by many. Last night is a testimant that people genuinely like Zack Ryder now, and it's not because WWE booked him that way this whole time. He took his career into his own hands and made it work. Now it looks as if he might win the US Championship.
 

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They just need to let guys like Bryan and Ziggler develop a gimmick and express themselves instead of being generic superstars.
 

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The WWE Creative team are a bunch of brainless monkeys throwing bananas at the office.
My sig is awesome.
 

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^^I would agree with both of you for the most part. But theres a part of me that wants to say the wrestlers, if a true performer/entertainer, should be able to take the worst idea possible and make it somewhat entertaining. I guess you can look at Zack Ryder as an example. His gimmick at first was extremely annoying to me and I never thought it would get over. Then after ECW ended, he became a jobber. BUT, he started the youtube series and basically made his character known and loved by many. Last night is a testimant that people genuinely like Zack Ryder now, and it's not because WWE booked him that way this whole time. He took his career into his own hands and made it work. Now it looks as if he might win the US Championship.
You're 100% right with Ryder. If a wrestler is truly that good, he should be able to rise above some bad writing, however not every wrestler is that good. Some need to be developed with good story telling in order to get over. it's not really a shot at those guys, it just comes more naturally to some more than others.
 

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Creative for the most part. It seems like they focus too much on the main-eventers and less on the mid-carders. And obviously nothing for the divas. It seems like they're running out of ideas on how to get guys over. Daniel Bryan has no gimmick but can wrestle and it seems like creative has no clue on how to use him. Morrison, I have no idea what his gimmick is supposed to be. He's flashy in the ring and horrible on the mic. Creative screwed him up turning him a face. At least as a heel he was interesting.
 

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It's up to creative to put the wrestler in front of the fans' eyes (give them a push) but then it is up to the wrestler to use his charisma to get a reaction from those fans.
 

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It's up to creative to put the wrestler in front of the fans' eyes (give them a push) but then it is up to the wrestler to use his charisma to get a reaction from those fans.
This is probably the best response imo.
 

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9 out of 10 times it's creative's fault.
 

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I think you can blame both but most blame has to lie with the WWE Creative. Zack Rhyder is a great example of someone who took an annoying gimmick and made it possibly the best gimmick in the WWE. He took his career into his own hands and got himself over without the WWE pushing him at all. The Rock and Stone Cold are other examples of wrestlers who took their careers into their own hands and in turn created personas that made them massively over. Sometimes wrestlers with great natural charisma can make the worst storylines of feuds worth watching. A lot of times the creative gives talented wrestlers utter shit to work with and then expect the fans to give a rat's ass about the wrestler. The whole Nexus storyline is the perfect example of Creative ruining a great storyline despite higher ratings, legit heat, and merchandise sales. The members in the Nexus did their jobs to a tee but the Creative team made them nothing more than a group of rookies who could only sneak attack people. Having their two best wrestlers lose to John Cena in about 5 minutes didn't help.
 

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It's both but I say most of the times it's creatives fault. Zack Ryder did get somewhat over but he did it with Youtube and not on TV. Before Zack Ryders Youtube channel he had the same gimmick and was not over. Zack Ryder was booked as a jobber and was never allowed to show what he really can do. So what does the guy do? Zack shows his charisma via Youtube and he gets over without being on TV. But without Youtube he probably would not be as over because guys need time to show what they can do.
 

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The Rock and Stone Cold are other examples of wrestlers who took their careers into their own hands and in turn created personas that made them massively over.
But even those two eventual huge stars were allocated the air time and opportunities by creative to get themselves over.

The Rock had the NOD to get over after his disastrous babydace start, and Stone Cold got his break by winning the KOTR and then getting put in a feud with Bret Hart.


A guy like D Bryan who is great in thr ring IMO and brings a reality based competitiveness into the mix has not had his push from winning MITB followed up on, and wasn't even on the last PPV. Creative is certainly do their best to fuck him up.

Kofi Kingston was on the cusp of stardom, but a certain golden boy got his feathers ruffled and put an end to his creative push.

A guy like Dolph Ziggler could be a huge star by now IMO if they had given him a more Mr Perfect like treatment / a good mouthpiece manager who DOESN'T overshadow him like Vickie has been booked to. Then he can bring his mic skills along once his mgr has done the lion's share of the talking. He is certainly capable of putting on matches as good as Perfect IMO.

If the wrestlers have the basic skills to 'work' then creative should come up with the rest for them, that's their job.
 

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the writers. the only thing the wrestlers dictate is how high of quality the matches are but the general wrestlers talent really don't change from generation to generation. matches are really just as good today as they were in the attitude era (except the cheers have been severely drained) the only things that changed since then is the story qualities
 
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