Wrestling Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Student of the game? I am the f***in' Game!!
Joined
·
8,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
In this day and age, wrestling is fake. Pro wrestling is synonymous with the word fake. Thats how fake it is.

No one comes out of a live show wanting to punch that bad wrestler in the face. Some do, and they also get ridiculed by others.

My point is no one pays to see the heels lose anymore. Because its not that gratifying. WWE does a horrible job at kayfabing. That plays a big part in why nobody hates heels like back then because they show so little effort in kayfabing. Seems like the only thing they even bother with is The Undertaker character.

WWE encourage us to follow our favorite wrestlers on twitter. When they're not vulgar, they're either destroying the thin veil on pro wrestling or just go completely out of character!

Some say kayfabing too hard is insulting to us fans, but you have to compensate. Fans have to get involved. Strong storyline arcs and writing needs to get us invested emotionally into characters and angles. That isn't happening. [Say what you will about the attitude era but EVERYONE was apart of the show.]

Outside of the main event everyone under seems like extras in a gigantic movie. WWE has twice as much tv time then back then but you go to the SD! section and they're a handful of wrestlers not doing anything. Where are all the screen time going?

Heel heat isn't worth it. Because all the heat they try to build cancels out when WWE broadcasts those make a wish or stand up videos airing on their show on KAYFABE TIME! Than of course theres WWE.com. This is insulting. I'm not gonna be your mark!

You can't go one show without a handful of guys cheating. People will take a step back and see the massive machine that is WWE as a farce because they're are too many asterisks to count. While UFC are doing one big money match that people wanna see after another building up the best welter weights and heavy weights division the world have ever seen! Don't tell me they aren't fighting for the same demographic. WWE just makes their own promotion smaller than it really is in the end. They spend a lot of energy on heat when it really is a lost cause. Doing more harm than good.

You know what people would pay to see is there favorites winning. But there isn't enough strong over faces to compensate for the influx amount of indistinguishable heels. If the faces are genuinely over, the heat will come naturally to the heels. That is good heat imo. You don't need to go to great lengths to where the heels ruin/stop the show literally, for so little gain but of course that is just far to easy compared to making people love your wrestlers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,813 Posts
The audience is too split now between kids who blindly lap up everything vince throws out there, and adults fans who don't give a shit about kayfabe, and are just dying to see someone entertaining. I don't know what they can really do when Nexus are getting booed out of the building. To a lot of their audience it is legit heel heat that adds to their 'evilness', to the other half they see a bunch of green rookies horribly regurgitating lines w/ monotone delivery, and boo accordingly. I'd probably do exactly what they are doing, market to kids, force feed new guys, and do what you can to build for the future, and hopefully you hit on an alberto del rio once in awhile to keep the more knowledgable fans hanging on. But to these kids who don't know anything else, the faces ARE over and the heel heat is legit. The change in company philosophy has led to a weird dynamic as far as the face/heel/overness thing depending on the ages of the fans and how much wrestling they have seen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
yea i completely agree. my opinion on a wrestler has nothing to do with face or heel. people are gonna cheer who they like. if daniel bryan turned heel suddenly only half the crowd would boo him the rest would be jumping for joy kuz theyve seen his heel work. its such a weird time for wrestling
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Not true, Barrett is drawing immense heat and I know for a fact people really want him dead, my dad and uncles can't stand him and most of my cousin's want him dead, my dad is about to quit watching if Barrett becomes champion, kayfabe is alive and well my friend, outside these forums I don't know anyone who watches and doesn't take it seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Agreed. Like in Bret's book when he talks about throwing blankets on top of Owen while driving into the arena so fans wouldn't see them together while they had their feud. Now that's how kayfabing should be done.
 

·
WindUp
Joined
·
163 Posts
wrestling is fake????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,781 Posts
I don't agree. Nobody is mad at the heels when they leave the shows, but they shouldn't be expected to. Just as I shouldn't be expected to be angry at John Lithgow as I walk away from the TV after watching Dexter, for instance. That kind of reaction would only be expected if I somehow thought what I was seeing was real.

However, while I'm watching Dexter, I'm angry at 'Arthur Mitchell', the villain. The fact that an interview with John Lithgow may play before or after the episodes with him explaining the character he plays doesn't result in me caring less about the show, or character itself. And if it does, not by much. As the show plays, it's either good or it's not. I either feel a need to react to the story developments or I don't. If I do, it's worth it. If I don't, it's not.

The whole point is have a show so good, that while people watch it, they feel a need to hate the bad guy, or like the good guy, or perhaps both. If RAW isn't good, you're right...the heel heat wouldn't be worth it because there wouldn't be any heel heat to speak of. But if the show is good, and that crowd in that particular town is feeling the story, who am I to say they're wrong?

It's a show. Everybody knows it. Kayfabing isn't as important as plain ol' good story development and good performance. That trumps everything at the end of the day.

My 2 cents...
 

·
Student of the game? I am the f***in' Game!!
Joined
·
8,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
^ You make good points but the protagonist plays a big role in why you don't like the baddies. You wanna see the conclusion.

Also good point about story development but one big factor is WWE lacks in that department. They fully rely on the heels to create interest giving us no reason for us to care for the faces.

Kayfabing isn't the issue. Everyone knows its fake. I can live without it but you need to compensate with strong story arcs to carry through; to create interest. Heels just can't do that alone anymore on there own because kayfabe is the key player in that.
 

·
BLUE IS BACK
Joined
·
9,773 Posts
you are putting the world into your mind. You are completely wrong MR. OP , lots of people think its only part fake... plus theres nothing better than seeing a heel you genuinely want to get beat up (ala ADR during the christian feud.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,236 Posts
Absolutely it's worth it. The more you build up a heel for the crowd to hate them, the better the payoff when they get their comeuppance. Or atleast that's the idea.

It just depends on how well it's done. If it's done well enough at live events, tv etc, then the audience will suspend their disbelief and play along, just like in movies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Kayfabing died when wrestlers started bringing out books. but there isnt just one reason for the whole heel thing, the bookers scripters the audience many more. but i would say its the audience because everything comes down to that. if your puting a show on for kids then you cant have a heel say things that would piss the older gen off because it wouldnt be appropriate for them. these are my thoughts but i dont like it. however with cena been more aggresive means that the heels (nexus) will have to up their game as well. so soon we might see the heel heat come back and be better, but i dont ever think it will be at the standards of 10-15 years ago.
one way to get the heat back would be a drastic heel change and yes i mean cena that would change everything.
 

·
The Mouth of Madness!
Joined
·
10,994 Posts
Not true, Barrett is drawing immense heat and I know for a fact people really want him dead, my dad and uncles can't stand him and most of my cousin's want him dead, my dad is about to quit watching if Barrett becomes champion, kayfabe is alive and well my friend, outside these forums I don't know anyone who watches and doesn't take it seriously.
That's the point that the OP was making in his last paragraph. He said if a face is popular enough (Cena), heel heat comes with the opponent naturally (Barrett).

But to the point of paying to see your faves. Not always true. When Cena was the 3 year champ from 2005 to 2008, it was I want to see this guy lose. They cheered Khali in some states. And hell Umaga for crying out loud was the dumbest gimmick and he got over like crazy due to the hate Cena had. And the fact that the guy could fly like a cruiser and Estrada was on the stick. You had a guy who could realistically win the title.

And for the overlap of the UFC like the OP mentioned, look at Lesnar. He has his pro wrestling fans and they wanted him to dominate. It worked. But the other side of the coin, you had the Elitists that wanted him dead. And that's just from the fact he was in WWE, not his fighting, not his attitude, but the fact he came in and beat Mir to a pulp, Couture and Herring. It's just how things work.

I think if they tried WWE can make a new type of kayfabe. But they are the only game in town. They don't have to change jack or shit cause they still get money. Now if Dana started up a UFC little league, well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,512 Posts
I personally dont think the fact that wwe is less secretive about wrestlers real lifes hurts things to much. I haven't thought feuds were real since like 1996 but ive enjoyed them just as much since up until a few years ago. Everyone knows they are acting. I think one of the problems is there are very few universal faces and heels. Cena will always have people boo him and nexus will always have people cheer. Back in the day almost entire arena would boo brock lesnar or kurt angle.
I always believe the problem is how heels are booked these days. Outside kane, there hasn't been a truly dominent heel in years. They all have to cheat to win and are very weak and that is cheap heat that people get sick of very fast. People boo because they aren't enjoying the product.
WWE needs to start booking heels as badass again so it actually means something when a face beats them. Right now the format is heel= chicken shit underdog and face= superman but still somehow loses.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top