Wrestling Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's a blog by the wrestler, Nikita Allanov, where he reviews matches from the worker's perspective. He reviews mostly lucha but reviews alot of other stuff as well.

In his review of Dan Dutra vs. El Chupacabra from APW, he made an interesting point about the independent wrestling circuit and its fans.

http://lucharesu.blogspot.com/2010/12/project-33-match-36-dutra-vs-el.html

This match brought to mind a conversation that I will occasionally have with my fellow wrestlers.

As you should be well aware, almost anywhere you go, you are going to find an independent wrestling promotion of some sort. Some promotions may be more well known than others, but there are hundreds if not thousands of promotions all across the United States. Sure, some promotions blow, and should have not ever have attempted to put on a card. And some are going to be solid and have a great night of wrestling action.

However, to most "smart" internet fans, there are only about a dozen independent promotions that are worth a damn. When you hear about ROH or TNA, or even the WWE signing some indy wrestler that no one has heard of, you often hear the "smarts" talk about how so-and-so from this group-or-that is way better - but it is always someone from one of that dozen or so indy promotions. Then, at the same time, a mediocre act from one of those top indy promotions will have praise heaped up on it, while other far better acts out there are over looked.

To me, this is a "chicken or egg" situation. Are these "super indy" promotions so good because they have awesome talent, or are the wrestlers hyped so much just because they wrestle for one of these promotions?

Put this match up against one of the preliminary matches on a Ring of Honor taping. To me, if this match had the same quality production as a match you might see on ROH on HDNet, you would have a damn hard time trying to figure out which match was the ROH match.

So, if Dutra vs. Chupy pops up on an ROH taping, or on a Chikara card, would these guys automatically be awesome, because they worked for ROH or Chikara? If a Tim Donst or Erick Stevens didn't work for super indy promotions, but popped up on the APW Gym Wars television show, would the smarks on the internet still hype them like they do?

There are soooooo many good wrestlers out there - I do not understand why more fans do not broaden their horizons by trying different products, and I do not understand why more promoters/matchmakers/bookers do not bring in different talent. I see independent promoters bring in "names" from ROH and draw houses of 65 paid fans, and I do not understand why they wouldn't spend far less money and bring in locals guys with talent - like Dutra and Chupy in this case, and perhaps build the house up with them over time.

This is why I think the business is in the shitter. People just try the same old crap and waste money, rather than working hard and innovating.
 

·
I like the wrestling parts best!
Joined
·
701 Posts
Since when is anbody hyping up Erick Stevens and Tim Donst???? Funny examples there but I see where he is coming from. There is a point to be taken here although this does seem like "why don't I get hired more...*Sad face*.."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think the point being made is that the fans seem to only follow a small amount of wrestlers and only because they wrestle for certain promotions when there are some really fantastic wrestlers out there that haven't worked for ROH, PWG or Chikara. Kind of like how many people follow the indies and puro and lucha is completely ignored. Lucha is just as good of a style as those other two and there's plenty of it around to watch and enjoy but none of it gets mentioned or discussed, other than the stuff that I and a few others have pushed.

I'll argue that Superstars is the best wrestling show on TV, followed by ROH on HDNet but not many people listen because it's not "OMG 5 starz!!!" every night. How people cannot pimp Finlay vs. Mike Knox is just unimaginable to me.
 

·
also known as a BUSTER
Joined
·
12,019 Posts
I've seen this Allanov guy on youtube.

He has very little right to talk about "working hard and innovating" when he's, IIRC, a Canadian playing a Soviet heel straight out of the 1980s. I'm presuming his real name is Nick Allan btw.

As far as the issue that a lot of people have with the ROH students' level of ability. ROH needs reliable team players, and guys that are immediately associated with ROH by the fans, more than they need random flavour-of-the-month indy guys. It's about consistency and building a brand. Even if all the guys aren't up to speed yet.

Alex Payne might be shit but he's more over with the ROH fans than most randomers could ever dream of being, purely because he's part of the furniture. You earn that respect over time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,658 Posts
There may be some instances of this happening but from the article you'd think this happens all the time.

I follow wrestlers in big companies cause i can watch them without putting up money.
I if couldn't watch highlights vids of other indy shows i wouldn't follow them either.

As far as the issue that a lot of people have with the ROH students' level of ability. ROH needs reliable team players, and guys that are immediately associated with ROH by the fans, more than they need random flavour-of-the-month indy guys. It's about consistency and building a brand. Even if all the guys aren't up to speed yet.
I agree, i don't follow PWG anymore because there's no fueds or storylines and it's easier to watch the big stars in ROH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
Parts of this is true for me. I have no intention of following smaller American indies, I live in Australia so I follow some of my friends on the Aussie circuit. I do follow ROH and PWG, and Evolve, Chikara and DGUSA to a lesser extent. I consider these promotions to be better than your smaller indy, especially ROH, because truth be told, they are better. If someone makes it to ROH, I assume they must be pretty good wrestlers. I don't see any reason for us to 'broaden our horizons' like he says, because I'll follow what I want to, and there are enough great wrestlers in the promotions I like to make it unneccessary for me to look for other good wrestlers in smaller promotions.
 

·
Is a Snit Head
Joined
·
22,269 Posts
People follow the companies that are good. Look at JAPW, they draw a shit load of people to some of their shows (The show I saw live had a bigger crowd than any indy show I've ever been to outside of Manhattan) and they bring in a lot of big names. Yet the only thing you will hear about them is that they suck. It's because the wrestling isn't as good.

I also want to address the point about not being able to tell the opening matches apart. It might be true in some cases but it's the main events that set them apart. I don't think I'm going to find a Steen/Generico or Strong/Richards quality main events on any other indy company that isn't PWG, ROH, Evolve, or Dragon Gate USA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,717 Posts
I think there is an interesting underlying point here which applies to not just independent wrestling, but the major companies too.

The business has changed to the point where the wrestlers and the names on the bill aren't the main draw anymore, its the name of the company. That is why FCW guys can headline WWE shows and do three times the television ratings of TNA, that is headlined by Sting, Kurt Angle or Ric Flair.

Promoters need to look at the way they promote their company and the brand of wrestling that it offers, and not the people in it. It even goes back to the old days of ECW, seemingly like everything does these days... Even when the ECW talent was bailing for WWF and WCW, ECW managed to grow its audience at the same time. Why? Because people don't watch wrestlers, they watch a wrestling company.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,012 Posts
How people cannot pimp Finlay vs. Mike Knox is just unimaginable to me.
probably because we all know, even you, that they are phone it in at every turn just like every other time WW fucking E do a show
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,185 Posts
Theres a reason these so called better wrestlers are overlooked. Lack of fucking promotion and the lack of any will to travel out of your shitty local indy like APW. If nobody knows your out there because you work for promotions that don't promote or travel at all then your always going to be overlooked for what may be lesser talents in ROH or PWG or any other promotions that bother to actually advertise or use well known Indy sites like Smart Mark Video to sell there DVDs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
I'm happy to sample new companies, but essentially complaining that "smart fans" don't broaden their horizons beyond a dozen indies is delusional. How much disposable income and free time does he think they have? And why does he think they're even necessarily aware of any other decent promotions? I bet most people in this thread never heard of APW before.

I'll check out the match. I like good wrestling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Wow very interesting read. I have recently found my way to this board and have been posting the last few weeks of APW TV.

APW is a pretty good promotion with pretty good talent... Unfortunately for them they don't have the budget say a PWG, ROH, Evolve or others have. They NEVER use "name" wrestlers however quite a few "names" have come out of their bootcamp:

Bison Smith, "Strongman" Jon Andersen, KAFU (WWE/FCW), Cheerleader Melissa, Great Khali, Crash Holly, Brent Albright, Michael Modest, Vic Grimes, Spike Dudley, Sara Del Rey are just some of their products.

APW also was home to Bryan Danielson, Christopher Daniels & Spanky long before there was a ROH or were known at all.

Check them out at www.youtube.com/allprowrestling and subscribe... They have a decent weekly tv series and although it's not a million highspots .. As a LONG TIME WRESTLING FAN... I find it entertaining.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
To me, he's saying we, as wrestling fans, are obliged to watch all the wrestling that exists, and automatically assume that the guys in small indys are better than guys in the WWE. Which is ridiculous.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top