Not sure if this was mentioned (didnt feel like reading the entire thing) but Disco Inferno was using the stunner, he called it the chart buster, as a finishing move. He suddenly had to stop because Ed Leslie (Brutus the Barber Beefcake) needed a finishing move and Hogan basically took it from him lol.

 

We could create a whole separate thread on guys Hogan kept around or made much bigger than they needed to be and #1 on that list would be Ed Leslie. He kept getting chance after chance at characters because he was Hogan's boy.

 

According to Bischoff (in his book), he wanted Hogan to lose cleanly to Sting at Starrcade, but Hogan refused, so they had to resort to the gimmicks (fast count/Bret Hart involvement).

 

When one of your eon best friends in the business says something like that you tend to believe the stories from before and after 1997

 

@Maelstrom21, Mania 1 also didn't have a title match.

 

I understand this but that was a different era. I personally think the biggest event of the year should have the top title defended but Wrestlemania I was the maiden voyage so they weren't really sure what they were getting in to and I believe Mr. T was a big selling point so they wanted to book him in the main event with the most recognizable guy (Hogan).

It was also a tag match, Hogan vs. Piper was one on one. World Titles don't usually change hands during tag matches unless some other tomfoolery is involved.

 

Can somebody show proof that Warrior flopped as champion?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App

 

I wanna say this.

George "The Animal" Steele said that Hogan's character was so over in the 80s that WWE couldn't afford to have him lose, as it would have killed future business for a return. Steele talked about a match he had with Hogan in St. Louis, where Steele won by countout. He got great heat from the fans but when it was time to do the return, for Hogan to win the match, the fans didn't care. At that time, it was hard to sell to the fans the idea of Hogan losing, which is he didn't lose clean. And it was a risk to do screwjob/countout/DQ finishes where Hogan loses because, in the 80s, there was always a return, meaning you run that town again.

Now, according to Steele, the reason why Hogan lost the title was because he was running out of challengers.


So, to see people talk about Hogan should have lost to Orndorff or Jake, you're not looking at it from the business side. Orndorff drew more money as the challenger than he would have as champion, simply because fans weren't going to buy Hogan as the challenger.


On that note, every instance of "politics" by Hogan in the 80s should be disregarded, considering it was what was best for business and made everybody money.

 

I wanna say this.

George "The Animal" Steele said that Hogan's character was so over in the 80s that WWE couldn't afford to have him lose, as it would have killed future business for a return. Steele talked about a match he had with Hogan in St. Louis, where Steele won by countout. He got great heat from the fans but when it was time to do the return, for Hogan to win the match, the fans didn't care. At that time, it was hard to sell to the fans the idea of Hogan losing, which is he didn't lose clean. And it was a risk to do screwjob/countout/DQ finishes where Hogan loses because, in the 80s, there was always a return, meaning you run that town again.

Now, according to Steele, the reason why Hogan lost the title was because he was running out of challengers.


So, to see people talk about Hogan should have lost to Orndorff or Jake, you're not looking at it from the business side. Orndorff drew more money as the challenger than he would have as champion, simply because fans weren't going to buy Hogan as the challenger.

Great post that gives insight on why Hogan was dominate in the 80's. George Steele was right that after WM III to many fans Hogan seemed invincible defeating Andre The Giant and it was even harder then trying to convince people Hogan could actually lose.

I think this also played a part in Hogan/Flair not drawing as expected because of this situation. If Flair fought Hogan right after Andre as in 1988 (it was rumored Flair was jumping, but only half of the horsemen left) the match would have drawn much more buckets of money as both were in their prime and still had juice in their reigns.

 

Can somebody show proof that Warrior flopped as champion?

He wasn't a flop, but he wasn't the drawing the numbers Vince wanted so Hogan was asked to come back and help out.

- Vic

 

I frequently read that Warrior wasn't drawing good numbers. Does this refer to house shows? If so, did those house shows previously feature both Hogan AND The Ultimate Warrior? Were TV ratings a factor also?

There was no PPV between WM6 and SS90, so it can't be based on buyrates.

I'm actually legitimately curious. I'd like to gain a better understanding of it, because the PPV figures point to Warrior doing fine.

The thing I don't dig about the Warrior's title reign is how he started not wearing the full makeup and just doing the Warrior logos on his cheeks. That made him seem too "real," IMO.

 

Many of the examples on the list are just of a heel having to cheat in order to beat Hogan. Is that not what happens more times than not any time that a heel beats a face for a title?

 

Hoagn screwed WCW from day 1. He squashed Ric in their first match, devaluing who had been "the man" in WCW for years and ruining the value in any rematches. He went back on their deal from the start. He further devalued Flair by having Ric "win" in things like a "first blood" match where Flair bled buckets and still "won".
The real mess as far as Flair was when they whipped Ric's son and gave Ric back some babyface heat, then gave Ric no revenge and he ended up being the heel in theier next match somehow.
Between this and the Starrcade deal with Sting, Hogan did nothing for WCW. He attached himself to the nWo to leech off Hall and Nash's popularity since his own was over.

 

Hogan, the real person, was truly horrible in wcw, the NWO success was due to him though. Too bad that he destroyed everything in starcade 1997 .

 

The David Flair incident was indeed extremely disrespectful. Especially since the Nature Boy didn't think it would go down the way it did.

 

Way before we had things like dirtsheets, my friends and I used to laugh that Hogan nver is going to really lose and wonder why they skipped on so many big money matches and put Hogan against guys like King Kong Bundy at WM2. Nobody wanted to see that match and we were the biggest bunch of marks you could find.

 

Was it his idea for TNA to ditch the 6-sided ring?

 

This is the legendary Hogan last days in the AWA. The video has edited out the "bullshit" chants from the crowd when Bockwinkle was given back the title.

I just thought posting this would show why Hogan losing to just anybody would not have worked back then. Vince saw the mistake the AWA was making with Hogan and surely knew he had to prevent this with Hogan for his expansion to kick off as a success.

 

Warrior is very intelligent. He's very philosophical and has strong beliefs. He's also extremely judgmental and, imo, takes some things too seriously. It's understandable to think he's crazy, but I think he's just very misunderstood.

 

Warrior could not have been that bad of a worker when he was apart of some of the greatest matches of all-time. Sure some may say he was carried by Hogan, Rude, and Savage, but you still have to do your part in the match.

Warrior's title reign in 1990 had a few problems with it such as no one bought Warrior could lose to anyone because he beat the guy who was unbeatable. The months before that he was squashing Andre The Giant whom Hulk Hogan had problems defeating 2 years prior.

That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.

 

That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.

Exactly.


Compare Warrior's 10 month reign to Hogan's first 10 months as champion.


Hogan got Sheik, Orndorff, Dr.D, Big John Studd, some Samoans, Greg Valentine, Bob Orton, Kamala, Jesse Ventura, Mr. Fuji, Piper and Nikolai, along with various strays. And among that bunch, Piper was without a doubt the freshest and a perfect challenger, Studd was the first taste of Hogan's constant working with bigger guys and you had Sheik for the returns.


Now, look at Warrior. All he truly got was Perfect, Rude & Savage. Rude wasn't really fresh, as he and Warrior began feuding a year prior BUT Rude did score a "pinfall" over Warrior, which made him look credible going against Warrior for the World Title. Perfect wasn't really fresh, as he had began working Warrior back in '89 and was frequently involved with Hogan. Savage, despite being anything fresh, was the perfect program for Warrior but the program lasted for 8 months (6 months of Warrior's title reign) and didn't result in a TV/PPV match until after Warrior had dropped the title.


So, when you book a guy against the same 3 guys for 10 months on house shows (with a handful of randoms thrown in), is business going to really be good, considering these are all guys (with the exception of Rude) that Hogan just ran through within the past 18 months in the same markets?



Whether people want to admit it or not, Hogan had the best quality of opponents of the past 30 years, in his 4 year title reign. They would sign new talent just to feed Hogan, which brings the potential of increasing the gate, as a new face is in that market, ready to take on the champ. All Warrior got was the guys Hogan already crushed in those same markets. So if business is down, don't blame Warrior or his "poor ability", blame WWE and their poor ability to protect Warrior, to feed him and to make him stronger. They booked him better before he got the title, at least he got a variety of talent to work with in those 2-3 years. But, while he got to work with, arguably, 3 of the top workers in the business in '90-'91, it was far from fresh. The feud with Savage had all the potential in the world and still was beyond great but what that feud was born out of (Savage's chase for the title) is the exact opposite of where it ended.



In closing, Warrior wasn't a flop. Warrior's programs were flops, because of circumstances I just mentioned, along with Hogan still remaining in the spotlight and the fact that Warrior had a perceived ego and was difficult to work with. Him being a poor worker is the last thing that should be said because if is that poor of a worker, why did he get the title? BECAUSE HE DREW MONEY.


And drawing money > being a great worker. And I dare anybody to say Warrior didn't draw money. Fuck ratings, attendance & buyrates, as that entails group effort. Let's talk about the popularity and connection with the kids. Let's look at a crowd full of children wearing Warrior merchandise and painted faces. Let's talk about all the public appearances in the media. Let's talk about the Slim Jim endorsement BEFORE he even became champion.


But you can't expect people to come to MSG, watch SNME or order a PPV to see Warrior work a guy that Hogan just ran through 8-12 months prior. And regardless of what spin on it, that puts a damper on business. Warrior didn't kill business, WWE did and it remained that way for over 6 years AFTER Warrior dropped the title. I mean, if he was so bad, why didn't things get better when he left?


Something to think about...

 

As for the Make A Wish kid story, if it's true, it's terrible. Somehow I either don't think it is true, or there is more to the story that we don't know. I remember e-mailing Warrior in 1997 or 1998 and I got a prompt, personal reply. I was a kid back then, and it blew me away. He actually seems to be one of the better wrestlers as far as fan interaction goes, IMO.

I don't want to believe the story either, but he was probably having a bad day. I've seen old pictures of him taking pictures with kids in his wrestling gear and makeup with the belt in hand.

That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.

Bingo.

- Vic

 

2002 with Triple H and Jericho going on last on the Wrestlemania card. What a terrible decision. If I were to be watching that live, I would have turned the PPV off after Hogan/Rock. Nobody in their right mind in the wrestling community would think that Hogan/Rock was placed correctly on that card. The only arguement with this is that The World Title should always be last on the card. But nobody fucking stood up for Rock/Cena with having Punk/Jericho almost go at the halfway point of the broadcast.

Jericho revealed in his second book that Triple H's pay for that match was 8x larger than his. Isn't that incredible how that works? Triple H makes me fucking sick.