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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
They drew 2,000-2,200 for these Mexico tapings and theres pictures from people who went on twitter showing they sold out these tapings with over 2,000 people in the arena. Again the lighting is darkened because they want the focus on the performers not the crowd.

Impact Wrestling attendance is 2,000-3,000. So their crowds aren't small its just that they're going with the old school approach where you want the focus to be in the ring and not the crowd like how the NWA and AWA ect did back in the 70s and 80s.
You show the crowd to:

1) Heighten the excitement
2) Show off that you are drawing

Impact drew 2K - 3K fans? They should have lit that arena up and shown it off! That's a nice launch point to illustrate that the promotion's darkest days are behind them and that it is on the way back. Instead, they could have drawn 30,000 fans and it would have looked no different than when they appeared at Sam's Town Live.

While I get what you say, I never understood the advantage of "focusing on the ring". It's Bill Watts WCW stone age production values, and by that logic you could have a sold out WrestleMania in Dallas that you never know is sold out because the lights are off. At that point, why have it at a stadium at all? Why not just the Liberty High School again, as it was for RAW in 1995? You'd save a ton on production costs.

To me, a blackened arena speaks two things:

1) You're ashamed at how small the building is, so you don't show the crowd
2) You didn't sell out your venue, so you're trying to hide it (ala the WCW Clash of Champion at the Super Dome, or the 1988 Survivor Series in Richmond that was only half filled)

Furthermore, you couple that with the trend in the last decade in NXT, ROH, and Impact where you have relatively interchangeable male wrestlers who are bald or have short black hair, wrestling in black trunks, wrestling in a ring with a black apron, competing on a black ring mat (at least Impact's is lighter), in a ring surrounded by black guard rails or crash pads around the ring, with black mats outside the ring, and in a building where the lights are turned off and everything around the wrestlers is black. It doesn't appeal visually to a new viewer at all. Impact should be trying to regrow its audience with current wrestling fans and the occasional casual viewer. That sort of stuff doesn't make you want to watch at all. It's Soviet brutalism as a production value, grim and bleak.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Gonna need to see the receipts on those Impact attendance numbers, man.

I would be absolutely shocked if Impact's average attendance in 2019 was over 800 (even if it's 800, that's really good considering where they were a few years ago).



**the 16,000+ from MSG is counted for both the ROH and NJPW totals and averages. If you didn't count that show for either promotion, NJPW averaged 1,491 and ROH averaged 706.

I just don't see any way Impact drew twice per show what ROH, NJPW, and MLW drew in 2019.

Source:
I did a quick search on four of the locations where Impact taped television last year, and none of them had capacity for more than 1,400.

Mellrose Ballroom: Seating capacity 500
Sam's Town Live: Seating capacity 200
Esports Arena: Seating capacity 1,400
Oceanview Pavilion: Seating capacity 1,400

It's possible that they drew more elsewhere (Bound for Glory 2019 reportedly drew 5K), but an average annual attendance of 3K would put them closer to what they were drawing back in 2010/2011 I believe.
 

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I did a quick search on four of the locations where Impact taped television last year, and none of them had capacity for more than 1,400.

Mellrose Ballroom: Seating capacity 500
Sam's Town Live: Seating capacity 200
Esports Arena: Seating capacity 1,400
Oceanview Pavilion: Seating capacity 1,400

It's possible that they drew more elsewhere (Bound for Glory 2019 reportedly drew 5K), but an average annual attendance of 3K would put them closer to what they were drawing back in 2010/2011 I believe.
Sam's Town has 200 bleacher seats but you can fit a lot more than that in the venue depending on the setup. ROH has fit anywhere between 700 and 1,100 on many occasions.
 

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He didn't he
Hey just to explain, venues generally have 3 different capacities

Building capacity
Standing capacity
Seating capacity

Having just researched Terminal 5 as I would if I was booking an actual event I found this link for venue hire


It lists the seating capacity of the venue at 850.

There is no possible way a venue with a building capacity of 3000 can possibly also support 3000 seats, it would be a fire code issue nevermind the logistics of it being a multi level venue with seperate rooms
Hes right about it holding 3,000 seats but hes wrong about it being only used for 700-900 seats is what Im saying. They'll likely setup Terminal 5 at Rebellion for 1,500-2,000 since thats what'll likely be whats left over since they have to setup the stage, ring, and get the production crew setup as well.

All I was saying was their attendance there will be higher then what hes saying it will be.
 

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You show the crowd to:

1) Heighten the excitement
2) Show off that you are drawing

Impact drew 2K - 3K fans? They should have lit that arena up and shown it off! That's a nice launch point to illustrate that the promotion's darkest days are behind them and that it is on the way back. Instead, they could have drawn 30,000 fans and it would have looked no different than when they appeared at Sam's Town Live.

While I get what you say, I never understood the advantage of "focusing on the ring". It's Bill Watts WCW stone age production values, and by that logic you could have a sold out WrestleMania in Dallas that you never know is sold out because the lights are off. At that point, why have it at a stadium at all? Why not just the Liberty High School again, as it was for RAW in 1995? You'd save a ton on production costs.

To me, a blackened arena speaks two things:

1) You're ashamed at how small the building is, so you don't show the crowd
2) You didn't sell out your venue, so you're trying to hide it (ala the WCW Clash of Champion at the Super Dome, or the 1988 Survivor Series in Richmond that was only half filled)

Furthermore, you couple that with the trend in the last decade in NXT, ROH, and Impact where you have relatively interchangeable male wrestlers who are bald or have short black hair, wrestling in black trunks, wrestling in a ring with a black apron, competing on a black ring mat (at least Impact's is lighter), in a ring surrounded by black guard rails or crash pads around the ring, with black mats outside the ring, and in a building where the lights are turned off and everything around the wrestlers is black. It doesn't appeal visually to a new viewer at all. Impact should be trying to regrow its audience with current wrestling fans and the occasional casual viewer. That sort of stuff doesn't make you want to watch at all. It's Soviet brutalism as a production value, grim and bleak.
They want the focus to be on the wrestlers in the ring not the crowd because no one at home watching are watching to see the crowd they're watching to see the wrestlers thats why the lights are dark for the crowd.

Its pretty obvious their darkest days are behind them because their parent company Anthem Sports & Entertainment wouldn't keep them around if they were still doing horrible business. Biolli o n dollar corporations like Anthem don't keep companies like that around and just look at WCW when they were doing horrible business AOL-Time Warner got rid of them. Because biollion dollar corporations like that have no time for unprofitable companies and struggling companies.

Not really NWA and the AWA used to draw 10,000 people and they used to always darken the arena never showing the fans. Thats the look Impact are going apparently going for that old school only focus on the ring type of situation.

Well they're growing their attendance and attendance is up signicantly since 2018 so are doing what you're suggesting, which is regrow their audience which they have since their attendance has risen since they started touring in 2018.

 

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Also
You show the crowd to:

1) Heighten the excitement
2) Show off that you are drawing

Impact drew 2K - 3K fans? They should have lit that arena up and shown it off! That's a nice launch point to illustrate that the promotion's darkest days are behind them and that it is on the way back. Instead, they could have drawn 30,000 fans and it would have looked no different than when they appeared at Sam's Town Live.

While I get what you say, I never understood the advantage of "focusing on the ring". It's Bill Watts WCW stone age production values, and by that logic you could have a sold out WrestleMania in Dallas that you never know is sold out because the lights are off. At that point, why have it at a stadium at all? Why not just the Liberty High School again, as it was for RAW in 1995? You'd save a ton on production costs.

To me, a blackened arena speaks two things:

1) You're ashamed at how small the building is, so you don't show the crowd
2) You didn't sell out your venue, so you're trying to hide it (ala the WCW Clash of Champion at the Super Dome, or the 1988 Survivor Series in Richmond that was only half filled)

Furthermore, you couple that with the trend in the last decade in NXT, ROH, and Impact where you have relatively interchangeable male wrestlers who are bald or have short black hair, wrestling in black trunks, wrestling in a ring with a black apron, competing on a black ring mat (at least Impact's is lighter), in a ring surrounded by black guard rails or crash pads around the ring, with black mats outside the ring, and in a building where the lights are turned off and everything around the wrestlers is black. It doesn't appeal visually to a new viewer at all. Impact should be trying to regrow its audience with current wrestling fans and the occasional casual viewer. That sort of stuff doesn't make you want to watch at all. It's Soviet brutalism as a production value, grim and bleak.
I get where you're coming from though in the sense that they should light the arena better and show off that they sold 2,000 seats. But like I said earlier to you I think they're going for the old school look where they focus on the wrestlers not the crowd since people watch it for the wrestlers and not to see the crowd anyways I don't get the big deal about them darkening the arena but then again thats just me.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
He didn't he


Hes right about it holding 3,000 seats but hes wrong about it being only used for 700-900 seats is what Im saying. They'll likely setup Terminal 5 at Rebellion for 1,500-2,000 since thats what'll likely be whats left over since they have to setup the stage, ring, and get the production crew setup as well.

All I was saying was their attendance there will be higher then what hes saying it will be.
My point now is, if Impact is drawing over 2K or more, should they
They want the focus to be on the wrestlers in the ring not the crowd because no one at home watching are watching to see the crowd they're watching to see the wrestlers thats why the lights are dark for the crowd.

Its pretty obvious their darkest days are behind them because their parent company Anthem Sports & Entertainment wouldn't keep them around if they were still doing horrible business. Biolli o n dollar corporations like Anthem don't keep companies like that around and just look at WCW when they were doing horrible business AOL-Time Warner got rid of them. Because biollion dollar corporations like that have no time for unprofitable companies and struggling companies.

Not really NWA and the AWA used to draw 10,000 people and they used to always darken the arena never showing the fans. Thats the look Impact are going apparently going for that old school only focus on the ring type of situation.

Well they're growing their attendance and attendance is up signicantly since 2018 so are doing what you're suggesting, which is regrow their audience which they have since their attendance has risen since they started touring in 2018.

I'm not suggesting that they regrow their audience - I know that they're (slowly) rebuilding. But when they have moments where they draw 2K-3K or even more, that should be celebrated.

Take AEW's first show where they sold out a basketball arena. That looked fantastic in comparison to NXT, because you could see the enormous crowd. It looked like a big deal. If AEW had done as you suggest with Impact and turn off the lights in the arena, then both shows look the same.

And I get what you're saying about the NWA and AWA. It's something that Paul Levesque apparently watched and loved, because every NXT Takeover looks like it was run under the auspices of Verne Gagne. That said...I'm old enough to remember as a kid how much of a major league operation the WWF looked in comparison to the NWA or AWA, just because the arena was filled and well lit. It's a personal preference for sure, but I think it's something that draws in casual viewers. Having Impact in a black arena does nothing to differentiate it from NXT and ROH, who do exactly the same thing.

Doing a black arena seems lazy. Impact needs more shows like this:
 

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My point now is, if Impact is drawing over 2K or more, should they

I'm not suggesting that they regrow their audience - I know that they're (slowly) rebuilding. But when they have moments where they draw 2K-3K or even more, that should be celebrated.

Take AEW's first show where they sold out a basketball arena. That looked fantastic in comparison to NXT, because you could see the enormous crowd. It looked like a big deal. If AEW had done as you suggest with Impact and turn off the lights in the arena, then both shows look the same.

And I get what you're saying about the NWA and AWA. It's something that Paul Levesque apparently watched and loved, because every NXT Takeover looks like it was run under the auspices of Verne Gagne. That said...I'm old enough to remember as a kid how much of a major league operation the WWF looked in comparison to the NWA or AWA, just because the arena was filled and well lit. It's a personal preference for sure, but I think it's something that draws in casual viewers. Having Impact in a black arena does nothing to differentiate it from NXT and ROH, who do exactly the same thing.

Doing a black arena seems lazy. Impact needs more shows like this:
True they also should do press releases about their attendance about their 2,000-3,000 people in attendance like AEW does when they do press releases and announce the attendance for the media.

I was just giving you why they do it and its because of the old school look they're going for but I agree they should light the arena up more like WWE does for Wrestlemania, Raw, and Smackdown.

True I agree with what you're saying as far production values compared to Raw and Smackdown and thats something Impact needs to work on and improve on. Theres no reason why Impact shouldn't be lighting their arenas showing off the 2,000-3,000 people.
 

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I'm IW through and through but this idea that the crowd is dark so the focus is on the talent is pure bullshit.

Impact have a pretty tight budget hence the sound, lighting and small arena's. That said, if they are making money from ticket sales they should be pumping that back into the set and making it look more like a major promotion.

The old TNA might have been poorly managed but you could never doubt the quality of their production crew.
 

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I'm IW through and through but this idea that the crowd is dark so the focus is on the talent is pure bullshit.

Impact have a pretty tight budget hence the sound, lighting and small arena's. That said, if they are making money from ticket sales they should be pumping that back into the set and making it look more like a major promotion.

The old TNA might have been poorly managed but you could never doubt the quality of their production crew.
The lighting is dark because they want the focus to be on the talent in the ring. Listen to Scott D'amore or Don Callis' interviews and they explain that.

Of course they're on a tight budget but they've been making more money since 2018 when they started touring. Which has the company running a good profit. And they are making money from ticket sales. They're charging people to attend shows which is how they make money touring.

Their arenas aren't small. The Bomb Factory, Coca Cola Roxy arena, and Terminal 5 aren't small arenas.
 

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I'm IW through and through but this idea that the crowd is dark so the focus is on the talent is pure bullshit.

Impact have a pretty tight budget hence the sound, lighting and small arena's. That said, if they are making money from ticket sales they should be pumping that back into the set and making it look more like a major promotion.

The old TNA might have been poorly managed but you could never doubt the quality of their production crew.
I'm IW through and through but this idea that the crowd is dark so the focus is on the talent is pure bullshit.

Impact have a pretty tight budget hence the sound, lighting and small arena's. That said, if they are making money from ticket sales they should be pumping that back into the set and making it look more like a major promotion.

The old TNA might have been poorly managed but you could never doubt the quality of their production crew.

Soldout Sam'stown head to head against NXT. They did 1,000 in Vegas
The lighting is dark because they want the focus to be on the talent in the ring. Listen to Scott D'amore or Don Callis' interviews and they explain that.

Of course they're on a tight budget but they've been making more money since 2018 when they started touring. Which has the company running a good profit. And they are making money from ticket sales. They're charging people to attend shows which is how they make money touring.

Their arenas aren't small. The Bomb Factory, Coca Cola Roxy arena, and Terminal 5 aren't small arenas.
Also they soldout Vegas Spoilers For Impact Wrestling Tapings From Las Vegas (2/8) - Wrestling Inc.

2,000+ in Mexico last month

3,000 for BFG last year https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/djsb06
Also heres a quote from a very reliable Impact insider. Kingofgergia95: "Not sure who's drowning, Impact is turning a good profit for the second straight year."

So they're a profitable company and money isn't their problem since they're turning a profit. They're not short on cash at all.

Also I don't watch wrestling anymore I stopped watching wrestling all together in late 2017 and haven't watched since. So I have no stake or dog in this fight. I keep up on wrestling through the internet and thats only because my mom and dad still watch it.
 

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The lighting is dark because they want the focus to be on the talent in the ring. Listen to Scott D'amore or Don Callis' interviews and they explain that.

Of course they're on a tight budget but they've been making more money since 2018 when they started touring. Which has the company running a good profit. And they are making money from ticket sales. They're charging people to attend shows which is how they make money touring.

Their arenas aren't small. The Bomb Factory, Coca Cola Roxy arena, and Terminal 5 aren't small arenas.
Mate you are talking pure bollocks. The reason why they darken the venues is because they are trying to hide the tiny audiences they draw. Trust me if you were filling the arenas you would be bragging about it and showing it off every opportunity you get. The venues you mentioned are like high school gym sizes. I would not be proud of selling out 1000 seat arenas. If they weren't on AXS then no other network would touch them with a barge pole. The show comes off looking and feeling indy. Even MLW looks more polished and big time.
 

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Mate you are talking pure bollocks. The reason why they darken the venues is because they are trying to hide the tiny audiences they draw. Trust me if you were filling the arenas you would be bragging about it and showing it off every opportunity you get. The venues you mentioned are like high school gym sizes. I would not be proud of selling out 1000 seat arenas. If they weren't on AXS then no other network would touch them with a barge pole. The show comes off looking and feeling indy. Even MLW looks more polished and big time.
No mate you're talking bollocks I just showed you they have big crowds at their shows. Their crowds aren't tiny if you would've look at the links in my comment then you would'nt be making this outrageous and false claim. Again they darken the arena so the focus can be on the performers in the ring because thats what people watch it for not the crowd.

You must be an idiot. I just showed you in my previous comment that they're drawing huge crowds. I showed you the proof already but you can stsy in your delusions buddy but I already proved you wrong.

Dude those aren't high school gyms. Those arenas hold 3,000-4,300 seats so what are talking about man?

😂 So them selling out 2,000-3,000 seat venues comes off small but MLW selling out 1,000 seat arenas comes off big league? 🤣 Dude go troll somewhere else. Impact are selling out bigger venues than MLW. And Impact are doing it with expensive tickets at $150. MLW are barely getting 1,000 and thats with cheap as dirt tickets at $5.
 
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