[Dyl]

If the WWE themselves don't care about prestige, you shouldn't either.

When things don't go the professional wrestling fans way, the fan complains. They complain a lot. Much of the time, these complaints are concerned with image. This guy looks weak. The title looks weak. This match is overused. It isn't held in high enough esteem. Probably the most often bandied of these critiscisms of image is that of the belts themselves. John Cena's belt spins, what about the prestige? Santino won the Intercontinental Championship with a ridiculous move. It's lost prestige as a result.

But surely, if THE COMPANY weaken the belts and performers, then this notion of prestige is just something the fan clamours for; something that doesn't actually exist. It's an exercise in futility. Fans are so concerned about how people LOOK. How the belts LOOK. How the company LOOKS. The company is doing just fine, and believe it or not, 99.999% of the time, they DO have a better idea of what is right. Of how to book. After all, they ARE the company.

If the WWE care not for this percieved prestige of different aspects of their company, chances are it's not important. Stop worrying, I say. The comapany is in good hands; it's in it's own hands. Far be it from me to say 'don't fantasy book'. 'Don't complain'. But don't kid yourself for a second that your way would be better. Becuse quite frankly, thinking that way is madness.

can't agree with this. Basically you're saying that whatever the WWE writers think is better than anyone else, simply because they are WWE writers. This is a terrible attitude to have, not just based on this example of the WWE, but in life in general. So whatever a politician does/says is ALWAYS correct? Whatever a teacher or authoritive person decides is ALWAYS correct? As humans we have to exercise our own opinions and in many many situations I am confident that believing my way is 'better' is totally justified. If everyone followed your advice to never "Kid yoruself into thinking your way is betetr" then nothing would ever change or improve.

 

[Chrissy Benny Wah]

can't agree with this. Basically you're saying that whatever the WWE writers think is better than anyone else, simply because they are WWE writers. This is a terrible attitude to have, not just based on this example of the WWE, but in life in general. So whatever a politician does/says is ALWAYS correct? Whatever a teacher or authoritive person decides is ALWAYS correct? As humans we have to exercise our own opinions and in many many situations I am confident that believing my way is 'better' is totally justified. If everyone followed your advice to never "Kid yoruself into thinking your way is betetr" then nothing would ever change or improve.

Maybe not always. But is 99.999% of the IWC that claim they 'KnOW WhaTS BEst FORDA COMPUNYY!1'~#' flat out deluded? Yes. Perhaps it took a rather hyperbolic initial post from me to say that. Or maybe I just wanted to exaggerate.

 

[Dyl]

Agree with you entirely that in many cases, especially in the case of the IWC, what most people believe would be better wouldn't work in reality and in many cases the WWE themselves does have a better idea of how to run things, but yes, essentially just wanted to call you out on your exaggeration of 99.999999999999999% of people needing to shut up and let those in charge decide everything for them

 

[GreenBax]

Stop worrying, I say. The comapany is in good hands; it's in it's own hands. Far be it from me to say 'don't fantasy book'. 'Don't complain'. But don't kid yourself for a second that your way would be better. Becuse quite frankly, thinking that way is madness.

Couldn't disagree more. Newsflash, not everyone is good at their job.

There are millions of people out there right now who are all probably thinking, "I could run my company better than my boss can"... and for you all you know they're right. Maybe their boss is an idiot with poor perception and poor people skills. Maybe he got that job because his wife's brother is the CEO. Maybe he was just really good at kissing ass. Not everyone in a position of power did something to rightfully earn it.

None of us know the credentials of the current WWE creative staff. We don't have to blindfully respect their decisions at all times simply because they're the ones calling the shots. We have no idea how or why they were able to put themselves in that position, or how they were chosen. I've been watching Wrestling a real long time. Trust me, judging from the current product... they don't know the first thing about booking a Wrestling program. But I know I'm just an forum user and they're on WWE Creatuve... what do I know?

There are people on this forum who've been watching for more than 20 years. Barring some obvious bias in regards to certain wrestlers, there are plenty of users here who look at things objectively and are very, very intelligent when it comes to Pro Wrestling. I would trust these people far more than I would the monkeys currently on staff. There's a reason why Vince had to recruit Austin, Rock, Snookie, etc. for this year's Wrestlemania and that's because the show itself has absolutely nothing else going for it. They had a year to create new stars and build them up for next year's Mania... yet here we are and Vince has to make The Rock headline in order for people pay attention.

 

[just1988]

You ever heard the term "The customer is always right"? Well this is a prime example, we know what we like and we know what makes us want to watch the shows and title prestige is something that makes us want to watch because we want to see the title change hands on these rare occasions, if it happens all the time then we're not bothered if we see it or not because it'll just change again sometime soon.

 

[Chrissy Benny Wah]

Again, you refer to a minority that may have a clue. But the overall, general idea the IWC have, that, given the power, they could somehow 'put an end to the PG crap' and make it better? Ridiculous statements.

Trust me, judging from the current product... they don't know the first thing about booking a Wrestling program. But I know I'm just an forum user and they're on WWE Creative... what do I know?

BAM. There you go. Your sarcasm would, for the majority, be an overwhelming truth.

 

[Chrissy Benny Wah]

You ever heard the term "The customer is always right"?

Ironically, I think that statement is a complete falsehood.

The customer is not always right. Often, the customer is a dick.

 

[GreenBax]

Again, you refer to a minority that may have a clue. But the overall, general idea the IWC have, that, given the power, they could somehow 'put an end to the PG crap' and make it better? Ridiculous statements.

Well you're referring to the idiots who would give Christian year long title reigns and open up every show with a 40 minute CM Punk promo.

I'm talking about the people who really know Wrestling because they've been watching it for more than 20 years. The ones who know that the only way you make people care about a match is to get them to care about the characters in it and what's at stake. It's really, really hard to care about a World title match because chances are:

A) We've already seen the two superstars in the match go at it eight or nine times already.

B) There will most likely be some contrived angle or stipulation that renders the outcome of this match utterly meaningless, most likely resulting some type of rematch the following night on RAW or at the next PPV in all but three and a half weeks time.

C) The title is passed around like a hot potato, thus undermining the idea that the match is somehow supposed to feel important after a new champion is crowned.

 

[tony_soprano_89]

I agree with the OP. I think in many ways, if guided properly by industry experts, your average IWC poster could book a good indie product and yeah there are good ideas floating around here in terms of storylines, feuds etc. But in terms of running the world's biggest wrestling company, to drive forward the product in terms of profits... WWE knows best. most people on here would end the PG stuff for example. News flash, in this day and age, profits would drop, sponsors would kick up a fuss etc etc. As much as it might sadden people on here to hear, WWE's biggest priority isn't the quality of the product, its the business.

 

[Chrissy Benny Wah]

Well you're referring to the idiots who would give Christian year long title reigns and open up every show with a 40 minute CM Punk promo.

Certainly it is those people I'm talking about. People that want to push the flavour of the month, amongst other things. So we're kind of talking at cross purposes in terms of the fantasty booking stuff. But this is really only a part of what my original post commented on. I was more talking about the prestige given to props such as titles. I was more talking about the assigning of gravitas to performers, and whether or not it should even matter to the viewer, if it seems not to matter to the company.

I'm talking about the people who really know Wrestling because they've been watching it for more than 20 years. The ones who know that the only way you make people care about a match is to get them to care about the characters in it and what's at stake. It's really, really hard to care about a World title match because chances are:

A) We've already seen the two superstars in the match go at it eight or nine times already.

B) There will most likely be some contrived angle or stipulation that renders the outcome of this match utterly meaningless, most likely resulting some type of rematch the following night on RAW or at the next PPV in all but three and a half weeks time.

C) The title is passed around like a hot potato, thus undermining the idea that the match is somehow supposed to feel important after a new champion is crowned.

Fantasy booking is fun, I indulge in it, everybody does. But there's a line into unhealthy stupidity which gets crossed, a lot. With the majority of fans.

Not crossing said line is simple: view your fantasy booking as an alternative. Not what should happen. Because for whatever reason, the thing the comany is doing will usually be the correct thing for the company to be doing. In terms of it's future, it's profit, it's balancing of talent. All those things factor into what is being booked, and regardless of somebody who thinks 'CenAA SHOULD GET TEH RoCKBUTTOMZZ!!' (and make no mistake about it, it is those people I am talking about), I'm willing to put my faith into the guys that are actually employed. Over these guys? Every single time. And unfortunatley, the majority are those that don't have clue.

So your argument that my original post was null and void because SOME people out there DO have a clue, is really neither here nor there. SOME people don't. Obviously, my comments are to be directed towards them.

 

[Adramelech]

I say. The comapany is in good hands; it's in it's own hands. Far be it from me to say 'don't fantasy book'. 'Don't complain'. But don't kid yourself for a second that your way would be better. Becuse quite frankly, thinking that way is madness.

You better keep your common sense to yourself on the internet buddy.

Every random scrub on the street deluding themselves into thinking they could do a better job at something than the people who actually had the skill, drive and motivation to get into a position to do the job to begin with is the American way. Of course, if they were so awesome at the job, they would be doing it, since any company would be more than happy to pick up someone so super talented.

Don't let that stop you from writing your 9,000 page Harry Potter/Star Wars crossover fanfiction though, internet. Show those talentless hacks what their characters should really be doing!

Besides, what else are you going to do during your lunchbreak at Burger King.

 

[Dyl]

Every random scrub on the street deluding themselves into thinking they could do a better job at something than the people who actually had the skill, drive and motivation to get into a position to do the job to begin with is the American way.

Every person in every decent job in the world has worked hard to get there? They all have skill in said position?

wow, you're very ignorant.

It's not what you know, it's who you know - AT EVERY LEVEL.

 

[acracker]

If the WWE themselves don't care about prestige, you shouldn't either.

When things don't go the professional wrestling fans way, the fan complains. They complain a lot. Much of the time, these complaints are concerned with image. This guy looks weak. The title looks weak. This match is overused. It isn't held in high enough esteem. Probably the most often bandied of these critiscisms of image is that of the belts themselves. John Cena's belt spins, what about the prestige? Santino won the Intercontinental Championship with a ridiculous move. It's lost prestige as a result.

But surely, if THE COMPANY weaken the belts and performers, then this notion of prestige is just something the fan clamours for; something that doesn't actually exist. It's an exercise in futility. Fans are so concerned about how people LOOK. How the belts LOOK. How the company LOOKS. The company is doing just fine, and believe it or not, 99.999% of the time, they DO have a better idea of what is right. Of how to book. After all, they ARE the company.

If the WWE care not for this percieved prestige of different aspects of their company, chances are it's not important. Stop worrying, I say. The comapany is in good hands; it's in it's own hands. Far be it from me to say 'don't fantasy book'. 'Don't complain'. But don't kid yourself for a second that your way would be better. Becuse quite frankly, thinking that way is madness.

if quantity is more important than quality then please logout and rethink your priorities

pretige and honor is ALWAYS IMPORTANT, NO EXCUSE!!

Dont you think it says a lot about the fb that they do it, show that there is hope for a better more positive future, give them a reason to not support WWE and not settle for medocrity, 'cause trust me anything that exploits the mental flaws of mankind is a good thing, AND ARE WILLING TO DO IT FOR FREE

it shows that ultimately the wrong people are in charge of this industry,

the only people that should be complain are the mainstream children/manchildren that are shallow and 1 demensional and dont give a crap about wrestling, never had never will so F*** 'EM, they should be made the most irrelavant

 

[Arya Dark]

If WWE doesn't care about prestige it's more reason for it's fans to actually care about it, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bme]

- You think if a wrestler like Ted DiBiase became #1 contender for a World Title, the average fan would care ? NO
He has no credibility and the small tv time he gets has been spent making him look like a loser.

Wrestlers looking good - IMPORTANT

- The Divas champion gets little tv time, the title matches themselves are short & the belt is barely defended on ppv and if it is as a last minute filler match.
Few people would noticed or even cared if the belt just dissappeared.

Championship prestige - IMPORTANT

 

[Adramelech]

Every person in every decent job in the world has worked hard to get there? They all have skill in said position?

wow, you're very ignorant.

It's not what you know, it's who you know - AT EVERY LEVEL.

Firstly, thanks for supporting my point. I appreciate it bro.

I didn't say anything about working hard. You can get into a position through family and friends, advanced placement. Those aren't very hard. Many naturally talented people don't have to work very hard either, since they're... you know, talented. Hard work is for suckers.

I said skill, drive and motivation, the three things you require in order to reach and maintain a respected position in any kind of environment that isn't incredibly amateur. Corporations run on greed. Only an incredibly corrupt institution would continue to employ someone who is losing money for the company, no matter who their father is.

- The Divas champion gets little tv time, the title matches themselves are short & the belt is barely defended on ppv and if it is as a last minute filler match.
Few people would noticed or even cared if the belt just dissappeared.

Championship prestige - IMPORTANT

You have completely missed the point of the original post, which is fans choosing to care and apply importance to something that the WWE itself does not care or apply importance to. You have a preconceived notion of what does and does not matter and expect the WWE to conform to that, instead of the other way around.

 

[Dyl]

Firstly, thanks for supporting my point. I appreciate it bro.

I didn't say anything about working hard. You can get into a position through family and friends, advanced placement. Those aren't very hard. Many naturally talented people don't have to work very hard either, since they're... you know, talented. Hard work is for suckers.

I said skill, drive and motivation, the three things you require in order to reach and maintain a respected position in any kind of environment that isn't incredibly amateur. Corporations run on greed. Only an incredibly corrupt institution would continue to employ someone who is losing money for the company, no matter who their father is.

You don't need skill, drive and motivation to maintain a high level position, in many cases you need connections and leverage. The idea that only corrupt institutions would keep people on their books who do fuck all and coast by on their name/connections is incorrect. At every level of almost every major corporation in the world there are people who do not deserve to be there on merit, that is a fact, this is no doubt true of the WWE, to bring it back on topic.

 

[bme]

You have completely missed the point of the original post, which is fans choosing to care and apply importance to something that the WWE itself does not care or apply importance to.

Fans apply importance to that because that's want keeps them watching.
If a fan doesn't think 2 wrestlers are fighting for something important, they're not gonna watch.

I disagree that the WWE doesn't care about prestige, because they wouldn't have a fanbase if they didn't.
Jerry Lawler the past 4 months proves that.

 

[manjiimortal]

Prestige works like a plot-devide, it gives importance to otherwise useless props, so you need prestige. I do think however that some fans are a bit obsessed about it, since the simple fact that wrestlers are willing to fight each other for said belts gives them instant prestige, because you wouldn't fight over something that lacked importance.