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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A lot of people in The IWC are buzzing because they believe that Brock Lesnar may be making a comeback to WWE which personally i don't see due to the fact that Brock Lesnar could not hack the schedule six years ago when he was young and single so now he is married with a young child it is even less likely but hyperthetically if he were to return then there is one feud out there that could be HUGE in Cena/Lesnar and i want to know just how big people think it could be.

Going into 2004 it was clear then that John Cena was being groomed as the top face in WWE as he was the most popular wrestler in the company despite being a mid carder and at 26 years old was a perfect age whilst Brock Lesnar was already one of the biggest stars in the company and had come through at the same time as John Cena, Randy Orton and Batista. I have always believed that Vince McMahon had plans for Cena/Lesnar to be the generation defining long term feud over the years with Batista and Randy Orton as the next in line but with Brock Lesnar leaving it didn't work out like that.

Now John Cena is the biggest star in the wrestling industry and has been for a good half decade whilst beating every big name outside of The Undertaker in WWE in that time including Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Edge and Booker T. He is the single biggest draw anywhere in wrestling and has HUGE mainstream appeal to the extent of making people from outside of the wrestling world tune in to watch him and in their one and only feud John Cena was nowhere near the level he is now and wasn't really that believable in beating Brock Lesnar.

Obviously because of Brock Lesnar being so dominant briefly in UFC and having that exposure as well on top of his previous run in WWE he is now a HUGE star in his own right and has mainstream appeal due to the fact he is so agile for his size and is known as a freak of nature in UFC. I do not know PPV buyrates with Brock Lesnar in the main event but i have read in many places that Brock Lesnar is the biggest draw in UFC which is why Dana White wants to sign him to another contract as soon as possible.

When you add all of that up together it says to me that Cena/Lesnar would be the biggest drawing feud since Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock because there hasn't been two people who had such mainstream appeal since those two left nearly eight years ago and if done right and unrestricted in what they can do in the feud Cena/Lesnar could realictically change the industry in regards to ratings and buyrates. The likelihood of Cena/Lesnar happening is slim at best but if Vince McMahon went to Brock Lesnar after he has completed his last fight in his contract with UFC and offered him a HUGE contract for a couple of years that allowed him to work only tv and PPV's you never know.

Obviously upon his return Brock Lesnar would have to dominant and if he were to return then SummerSlam would be likely because Dana White is never going to allow Brock Lesnar to have his last contractually agreed fight with UFC before WrestleMania. A Cena/Lesnar feud for SummerSlam would be HUGE with Brock Lesnar going over and then John Cena winning the next match with Brock Lesnar winning the third and final match for then in a gimmick match but because of how HUGE i believe Cena/Lesnar would be a WrestleMania 28 match as the main event would be even bigger than anything else but how big do you believe Cena/Lesnar would be IF it were to happen.
 

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i think it could be huge if WWE were to handle it right. Brock wont leave UFC but if he did this is something which would have to happen. Cena the biggest wrestling star in the world against Lesnar former WWE champ and the biggest MMA/UFC star in the world. They worked a program briefly in 2003 were Cena got injured during their match at Backlash i belive. But now Cena being a huge name in the industry and Brock would carry over a lot of his MMA momentum and people would remember his WWE as it was still quite recent. I think it could draw big money for WWE which they need a big drawing feud cos they have few to do. But it is just a fantasy and would be something great if it were to happen
 

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It would be pretty big. I would expect it to be comparable to Wrestlemania 23 in terms of buyrate. Maybe even bigger potentially depending entirely on Lesnar and how much of a crossover he provides. Lesnar would bring in a couple of hundred thousand buys from his new UFC fans and the amount of interest his participation generates in the mainstream, at least, that would offset some of the declining buys on the WWE side.

Other than that? No, it wouldn't really do much for long-term ratings and buyrates.

You clearly overestimate Cena's appeal stating he's so big that people outside of wrestling tune in to watch him. That shows how little you know in regards to the WWE business, because that's far from being true on any meaningful level.

While Lesnar had a lot of buzz when going to the UFC. The same kind of buzz would not be replicated with him returning to face Cena. Different factors and circumstances unfortunately. He could face Undertaker and it would actually be a comparable, if not a bigger, feud than Cena/Lesnar.

I know that if I was getting Lesnar back for a one-time deal, I sure as hell wouldn't put him against Cena. Wrestlemania at this stage is basically about the streak more than anything else, and Undertaker will be a name known more to UFC fans and an older audience than John Cena. It's the best match possible.

Now Cena/Lesnar would be big. But it wouldn't be anywhere near as big as you think, that's for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It would draw huge, but I wouldnt trust WWE writers to get it right.
Usually i would agree with you because WWE creative and booking is nowhere near what they were a decade ago and aren't that much better than TNA's counterpart but because of how big this feud would be i would imagine that Vince McMahon would tell them to really create something special. Vince McMahon is not a silly man and because of how big both John Cena and Brock Lesnar's mainstream appeal is i don't think he would leave anything to chance because Cena/Lesnar could be the biggest thing to hit wrestling since Austin/Rock.

I have heard a few times that Triple H is behind a lot of the best things that we have seen on screen in the last couple of years and because of the generation he came through with Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle to name a few i think he would know better than anyone on how Cena/Lesnar would need to be booked if it were to happen. Triple H as an on screen performer does nothing for me anymore unless he is a heel and not WWE/World champion but Triple H head booker is something that interests me as no one has ever said anything but good things about his work in booking/creative that doesn't involve him.

If Triple H went to Vince McMahon and said that Cena/Lesnar NEEDS to be unrestricted in what they can do as a feud then i think Vince McMahon would listen and maybe even let Triple H have the main input into the feud. Either way though i don't think WWE would take a chance in messing it up because Cena/Lesnar would be the biggest drawing feud since Austin/Rock and in a properly drawn out feud could realistically change the whole industry again and see an era like the late 90's as John Cena and Brock Lesnar have more mainstream appeal on their own then everyone else in the business combined but together in a properly laid out unrestricted feud could create magic because of their drawing power.
 

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It could pop a huge buyrate, but i'd prefer to see a (fully healthy, say at Mania 28) Undertaker as the dominant face v. Lesnar as the dominant heel, if the build up for that is right I think it could be bigger than Cena/Lesnar.
 

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Usually i would agree with you because WWE creative and booking is nowhere near what they were a decade ago and aren't that much better than TNA's counterpart but because of how big this feud would be i would imagine that Vince McMahon would tell them to really create something special. Vince McMahon is not a silly man and because of how big both John Cena and Brock Lesnar's mainstream appeal is i don't think he would leave anything to chance because Cena/Lesnar could be the biggest thing to hit wrestling since Austin/Rock.

I have heard a few times that Triple H is behind a lot of the best things that we have seen on screen in the last couple of years and because of the generation he came through with Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle to name a few i think he would know better than anyone on how Cena/Lesnar would need to be booked if it were to happen. Triple H as an on screen performer does nothing for me anymore unless he is a heel and not WWE/World champion but Triple H head booker is something that interests me as no one has ever said anything but good things about his work in booking/creative that doesn't involve him.

If Triple H went to Vince McMahon and said that Cena/Lesnar NEEDS to be unrestricted in what they can do as a feud then i think Vince McMahon would listen and maybe even let Triple H have the main input into the feud. Either way though i don't think WWE would take a chance in messing it up because Cena/Lesnar would be the biggest drawing feud since Austin/Rock and in a properly drawn out feud could realistically change the whole industry again and see an era like the late 90's as John Cena and Brock Lesnar have more mainstream appeal on their own then everyone else in the business combined but together in a properly laid out unrestricted feud could create magic because of their drawing power.
This.
 

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It would be a big match but I dont think ufc would allow it because cena could easily beat lesnar in a fight and they wouldnt want to risk having lesnar being beaten further on a big ppv event.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It would be pretty big. I would expect it to be comparable to Wrestlemania 23 in terms of buyrate. Maybe even bigger potentially depending entirely on Lesnar and how much of a crossover he provides. Lesnar would bring in a couple of hundred thousand buys from his new UFC fans and the amount of interest his participation generates in the mainstream, at least, that would offset some of the declining buys on the WWE side.

Other than that? No, it wouldn't really do much for long-term ratings and buyrates.

You clearly overestimate Cena's appeal stating he's so big that people outside of wrestling tune in to watch him. That shows how little you know in regards to the WWE business, because that's far from being true on any meaningful level.

While Lesnar had a lot of buzz when going to the UFC. The same kind of buzz would not be replicated with him returning to face Cena. Different factors and circumstances unfortunately. He could face Undertaker and it would actually be a comparable, if not a bigger, feud than Cena/Lesnar.
I know that if I was getting Lesnar back for a one-time deal, I sure as hell wouldn't put him against Cena. Wrestlemania at this stage is basically about the streak more than anything else, and Undertaker will be a name known more to UFC fans and an older audience than John Cena. It's the best match possible.
Now Cena/Lesnar would be big. But it wouldn't be anywhere near as big as you think, that's for sure.
People that John Cena has worked with in films have stated that they didn't really watch wrestling but now tune in to watch John Cena and Patricia Clarkson said that she didn't realise just how big John Cena is until people were getting HUGELY excited about her working with him, i think she said something along the lines of people haven't been this excited about her working with someone since Clint Eastwood and this is a woman who is in her 50's i believe who doesn't really need to do PR to get work.

Because John Cena isn't the biggest star in a boom period in wrestling like Stone Cold Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan or The Rock were he is constantly underrated in regards to how big he really is and his mainstream appeal. There is a reason that he has been the main man in WWE for over half a decade and for why he has been in the main event/title match at WrestleMania six years on the spin which is only bettered by Hulk Hogan, i am not bashing you but the facts and figures and everyone actually in the wrestling industry which none of us are do not lie.

Also there is no way that The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania 28 as it would be now because Dana White is never going to let Brock Lesnar work WrestleMania 27 would be bigger than Cena/Lesnar because The Undertaker as a draw decreases more and more every month as he really only works the lead up to WrestleMania and the PPV itself before going away again and when he does return he hardly effects ratings or buyrates. You don't see Vince McMahon rushing The Undertaker back from injury at anytime at all outside of WrestleMania because the streak is all The Undertaker really has anymore to contribute in terms of ratings and buyrates whereas John Cena has been rushed back everytime he has been injured and WWE were so worried about the buyrate for the TLC PPV that they rushed through his storyline with The Nexus so they could add Cena/Barrett although the card was so bad it would have mattered if Austin/Hogan/Rock in their prime was on the card as well.

If we would have seen The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar for WrestleMania 27 it would have been big because the whole world was buzzing off of what happened at the end of the Lesnar/Velasquez fight but as soon as Dana White killed it that was it and waiting a year and a half afterwards wouldn't really work because all of the momentum would be taken out of it as well as the fact The Undertaker may not make it to WrestleMania 28 as he needs surgery after every WrestleMania and if he makes it back in time for WrestleMania 27 who is to say he may not make it back after more surgery in mid 2011.

Like Dana White said there is a line between UFC and WWE in what is real and what isn't and as someone else stated in another thread Brock Lesnar being in the ring in his MMA shorts waiting for The Undertaker to come down with fake lightening and supernatural powers is more than blurring those lines between real and fake. John Cena has no gimmick and has become bigger and better whilst The Undertaker has got older and slower and in a match with someone who works stiff like Brock Lesnar he would probably never walk again after the match but i just can not see how The Undertaker against anyone is a bigger draw than John Cena because John Cena is bigger than everyone in the wrestling world now and for me Cena/Lesnar is bigger than Taker/Lesnar although i never said better.
 

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Honestly, I think it'd be bigger than Rock/Austin. Yes, I've just said that.
:lmao

Why do people, much like the OP also, state so much hyperbole? Change the industry? Lead to another boom era like the late 90s?

So much crap it's honestly mind-boggling and continues to show how little perspective people honestly have.

Wrestlemania 26 which had a star-studded line-up, the end of Shawn Michaels, Batista/John Cena finally facing off, and Bret Hart's return only managed around 510,000 buys in the North American market.

Austin/Rock at Wrestlemania 17 basically doubled that number. Doubled. And they did it from the North American market, without any international buys. Even with international buys included, Wrestlemania 26 managed 885,000 buys which is still about two hundred thousand less than what Austin/Rock did at their peak.

The only two Wrestlemania shows that have done more buys (when including the international number as Austin/Rock remains their biggest draw at home - their biggest market) were Wrestlemania 23 and Wrestlemania 24. The two shows which had Floyd Mayweather and Donald Trump.

Austin/Rock were so big that they allowed WWE to launch platform after platform, aggressively expand into other markets, and generate completely new revenue streams.

The state WWE is in currently, do people think Lesnar will generate hundreds of thousands of buys? Because that's what you're banking on. One man. And some, like the OP, are actually expecting a Cena/Lesnar feud to potentially lead to an era like the late 90s?

The OP believes Cena has a huge mainstream appeal. Yes, of course he does. I still remember that $18 million dollar generating flop he had at the Box Office. In comparison, The Rock at the peak of his mainstream appeal generated $160 million dollars at the Box Office.

There is a huge difference between the industry today than it was back in the late 90s. And it extends a little more than just the line-up of stars there are there. It's about the perception of pro-wrestling and their evolution since that time also.

The game has changed.

The fact that people think a feud between Cena/Lesnar - which wouldn't even be the biggest feud possible for Lesnar if he was to return - would generate so much interest just shows how deluded they are.

I mean, holy crap. This shit is so ridiculous.
 

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People that John Cena has worked with in films have stated that they didn't really watch wrestling but now tune in to watch John Cena and Patricia Clarkson said that she didn't realise just how big John Cena is until people were getting HUGELY excited about her working with him, i think she said something along the lines of people haven't been this excited about her working with someone since Clint Eastwood and this is a woman who is in her 50's i believe who doesn't really need to do PR to get work.
You're really using this kind of evidence?

Where is that extra revenue then? Because I don't see it. And I've been looking at WWE financials for years now. Do you want to go to WWE corporate and extrapolate for me where that extra money is coming from then? Of these people who don't usually watch wrestling now watching it because of Cena?

Because three or four people hardly matters.
Because John Cena isn't the biggest star in a boom period in wrestling like Stone Cold Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan or The Rock were he is constantly underrated in regards to how big he really is and his mainstream appeal. There is a reason that he has been the main man in WWE for over half a decade and for why he has been in the main event/title match at WrestleMania six years on the spin which is only bettered by Hulk Hogan,
Yes, facts and figures don't lie. Of which you have none.

The Marine = $18 million flop at the Box Office.

The North American PPV market for the WWE continues to decline with Wrestlemania 26 generating only 510,000 buys on the domestic market.

Go read my post in the "megastar" thread - linked here - and realise how little you actually know. You've posted many times, a bunch of incorrect crap, with absolutely no hard evidence backing you up.

John Cena was only involved in the match with the most promotion at two Wrestlemania shows - Wrestlemania 22 and Wrestlemania 26.

At Wrestlemania 21, most publicity was centred around Batista/Triple H. At Wrestlemania 23, it was BotB. At Wrestlemania 24, it was Floyd Mayweather. At Wrestlemania 25, it was Orton/Triple H.

The reason John Cena has been in a title match for six years is because he's the number one star in the wrestling industry. So he's going to be given a big spot on the card. It's not because of his huge mainstream appeal, which isn't huge and was made up by you.

Triple H has closed Wrestlemania more times than Cena in the past six years. But I wouldn't try and claim he's a big star in the mainstream.

Main eventing Wrestlemania is a pretty crap argument to use in regards to appeal in the mainstream.

If you're going to use the argument of how big someone is and overstate it, you better bring some figures with you to support yourself.

As for this:
i am not bashing you but the facts and figures and everyone actually in the wrestling industry which none of us are do not lie.
You are indeed right. They don't lie. But the thing is, I know a lot of them. It's why I can confidently say you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. And the crazy thing is, you and many others, could go onto WWE corporate and read the reports and statements and understand them too.

Instead of spreading these arguments that have little depth and show clearly how little you know. Which is why you have to resort to, "there's a reason why he's been main eventing for six years."

You're right, there is. But you seem to have gotten that mixed up too.
Also there is no way that The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania 28 as it would be now because Dana White is never going to let Brock Lesnar work WrestleMania 27 would be bigger than Cena/Lesnar because The Undertaker as a draw decreases more and more every month as he really only works the lead up to WrestleMania and the PPV itself before going away again and when he does return he hardly effects ratings or buyrates. You don't see Vince McMahon rushing The Undertaker back from injury at anytime at all outside of WrestleMania because the streak is all The Undertaker really has anymore to contribute in terms of ratings and buyrates whereas John Cena has been rushed back everytime he has been injured and WWE were so worried about the buyrate for the TLC PPV that they rushed through his storyline with The Nexus so they could add Cena/Barrett although the card was so bad it would have mattered if Austin/Hogan/Rock in their prime was on the card as well.
That's what strikes you as being outlandish? And yet you're trying to state Lesnar/Cena would create another boom era like the late 90s?

Undertaker is the biggest draw for Wrestlemania, period. A large reason for that is the streak.

You take the two biggest match-ups possible at Wrestlemania right now, and they both involve Undertaker, but only one of them involves John Cena. The fact that you think his drawing ability is declining yearly is laughable also.

Do you have some figures to back that up?

Because Survivor Series 2007 headlined by Taker did better than both Survivor Series headlined by John Cena. There are other PPVs where Cena has been outperformed by other major stars in the headline match.

The point being, there is a lot more to the business side than you seem to be aware of with these superficial arguments of yours.
If we would have seen The Undertaker and Brock Lesnar for WrestleMania 27 it would have been big because the whole world was buzzing off of what happened at the end of the Lesnar/Velasquez fight but as soon as Dana White killed it that was it and waiting a year and a half afterwards wouldn't really work because all of the momentum would be taken out of it as well as the fact The Undertaker may not make it to WrestleMania 28 as he needs surgery after every WrestleMania and if he makes it back in time for WrestleMania 27 who is to say he may not make it back after more surgery in mid 2011.
Let me understand this. You think the the momentum has been taken out of a Lesnar/Taker match because of that little moment at UFC cannot be capitalised on? Neglecting the fact that if the match were to happen, that moment would not be brought up by the WWE - because it shows Deadman out of character - and the fact that the larger part of the audience actually isn't aware of that moment at all?

Are you kidding me with this?

Undertaker's streak is the biggest thing about Wrestlemania. Next year is his big 20-0 match-up. Lesnar is a huge star of the past. If the match were to happen next year, it would be even bigger than this year. The interest brought from Lesnar jumping to the WWE for a match will be there whether it happens in a few months or a year.
Like Dana White said there is a line between UFC and WWE in what is real and what isn't and as someone else stated in another thread Brock Lesnar being in the ring in his MMA shorts waiting for The Undertaker to come down with fake lightening and supernatural powers is more than blurring those lines between real and fake. John Cena has no gimmick and has become bigger and better whilst The Undertaker has got older and slower and in a match with someone who works stiff like Brock Lesnar he would probably never walk again after the match but i just can not see how The Undertaker against anyone is a bigger draw than John Cena because John Cena is bigger than everyone in the wrestling world now and for me Cena/Lesnar is bigger than Taker/Lesnar although i never said better.
Undertaker/Batista was the original headline match for Wrestlemania 23. WWE decided against it because of Batista's performances in the few months before it. They certainly considered Batista/Taker a bigger match than Cena/Shawn.

Batista/Triple H and Orton/Triple H outdrew Cena/Triple H.

Shawn Michaels last year against Undertaker was bigger than Cena/Batista and was given closing privileges due to it (much like Flair/HBK at Wrestlemania 24 would have received had Flair not declined the closing position).

Batista/Undertaker at Survivor Series outdrew Cena/Triple H/HBK and Cena/Jericho at the following Survivor Series.

And the above few examples, of which there are many more, show exactly why what you put in bold is one of the crappiest arguments I've ever seen.

As soon as Lesnar steps into the WWE. It's fake. People know that. Having him face John Cena simply because Cena hasn't got supernatural powers isn't going to make it seem less fake.
 

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I'm so sick of people throwing the word fake around left and right when talking about pro wrestling... I'd really like those people to experience living the life of someone like Dynamite Kid just for one day, then, have them come back on here and try and use the word fake around again...
 

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The fake thing refers to the fact that unlike UFC, the winner is predetermined. The better term is scripted but I'm rolling with the term used by another poster to ensure there isn't unnecessary confusion.

No one is underestimating the stress and physical/mental toll pro-wrestling exerts on the body.
 

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It would be a big match but I dont think ufc would allow it because cena could easily beat lesnar in a fight and they wouldnt want to risk having lesnar being beaten further on a big ppv event.
Cena could never beat Lesnar in a real fight lol
 

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It would be a big match but I dont think ufc would allow it because cena could easily beat lesnar in a fight and they wouldnt want to risk having lesnar being beaten further on a big ppv event.
So much wrong in this sentence, first of all Brock would have to get out of his UFC contract or have Dana's permission to do it, and secondly it's predetermined who wins, if Brock is set to win, Brock will win, if Cena is set to win, Cena will win, it's not like they go out there and wing it, and figure out who is gonna win during the match.

In terms of buyrates, this definitely would be the biggest Wrestlemania buyrate ever, the appeal of these two, Wrestling fans, UFC fans, the general public, there is so much money to be made here, much more than Brock vs Taker, or Cena vs Taker. If Brock was able to do it, the only thing that I would have in the back of my mind, is if Vince would screw Brock at Wrestlemania, a legit screwjob to get back at him for leaving, have Brock humiliated in the ring infront of 70,000 people and millions around the world, I'm sure Vince isn't that shallow, but then again he has done some pretty shallow things in the past.
 
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