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Discussion Starter #1
yet Ambrose and Owens are both established top stars.

I get people will say "but they're making the belts credible!" That's true to an extent. But they're not currently in title feuds that feel important. Owens isn't even in a title feud and is pretty much holding the US title hostage until after MITB. And we've seen Ambrose and Miz feuding for what feels like forever dating back to Smackdown. Miz was the perfect fit for the IC title, so hopefully he takes it back at ER.

But the last two midcarders to hold the belts were Rusev and Zack Ryder, both over a year ago (LOL @ Ryder losing it in less than 24 hours).. Cena put over the US title perfectly with his US Open Challenges (only to lose it to Del Rio, LOL), but that was also well over 2 years ago

What I'm trying to say is, those belts used to be and should be used to create the next top stars, not promote already established stars. Jinder Mahal would have been the perfect fit to win the US Title as opposed to rocketing straight to the World. It would have at least felt more organic to climb the ranks, and he could have used the US title to get even more heat.
 

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Answer is: Bad booking.

Yes they should be used to elevate new stars, why aren't they? Because WWE Booking is illogical. And Vince doesn't care.
 

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Yes they should, and creative/Vince HAS TO STOP immediately pushing big time call-ups from NXT to the main event scene. Nowhere to go but down from there, and then those premiere matchups and rivalries are played out within a year or two. Guys like Balor and Nakamura should be using their popularity to bring relevance to the IC/US title scenes. Instead, there is no clear hierarchy within the roster and guys wander aimlessly from random storyline to random storyline. GRADUALLY build these guys, and it and will help the whole roster.
 

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Agree with you. But Ambrose isn't really a top star anymore. He is positioned squarely in the midcard for now.

And in a way, isn't giving the midcard titles to top stars help increase the legitimacy of the belt and the challengers for it? And as long as these guys help increase the legitimacy without being gone for a fre months at a time, I'm fine with it.
 

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I'd like to see Miz as IC Champ, feuding with faces like Big Cass, Slater and Balor for the belt.

And Owens feuding with Mojo, Harper, Sin Cara, Dillinger and Ryder for the belt.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes they should, and creative/Vince HAS TO STOP immediately pushing big time call-ups from NXT to the main event scene. Nowhere to go but down from there, and then those premiere matchups and rivalries are played out within a year or two. Guys like Balor and Nakamura should be using their popularity to bring relevance to the IC/US title scenes. Instead, there is no clear hierarchy within the roster and guys wander aimlessly from random storyline to random storyline. GRADUALLY build these guys, and it and will help the whole roster.
This was exactly what I was getting at. Guys like Balor and Aries should be tearing the house down in great IC title feuds.
 

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Ambrose isnt really a top star anymore. Sure he gets occasional main events and multiple segments, and has some sort of star credibility and presence. But right now, he is an upper midcard.

Same with Owens,
 

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It's a catch 22 if you put the midcard titles on actual midcarders the titles are considered worthless remember the Kofi midcard era. But if you have all these guys like main event upper midcard like Ambrose and Owens not around the title then they're considered being buried and directionless because anytime you're not going for some gold apparently the feud is just filler or you're being buried and not having your skills appreciated. So it's easier to just stick main eventers and upper midcarders there to pacify the vocal crowd that would be complaining

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You're not wrong.

The company seems to think that the TITLES need elevating which is why they're putting guys from the main event scene in there, the likes of Owens, Ambrose, Cena, Rollins, Reigns etc. who have all held the world title within the last year.

When in all honesty, it's the other way round.

Personally, I think part of the problem lies in the fact that a lot of the talent the WWE has is mid-card level and too many of the guys who have held the world title over the last few years weren't ready to hold the belt and probably should NEVER hold the belt.
 

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What WWE fail to, or 'failing' to do is create a division of mid card talents. The mid cards titles both the US and IC are titles for main eventers who have nothing to do "Sorry Kevin Owens we have nothing for you right now here's a title to kleep you happy for a while"

The funny thing is Kevin Owens isnt doing shit with the title, his current storyline is "fuck the Us title I want the WWE title". Why can't the Us title stand on its own, why doesn't Kevin Owens have his own feud? Why is he even holding the Us title when he is focusing on the WWE Title?

Can you imagine if Hogan wasnt holding the WWE title one day and they gave him the IC title instead and people like Mister Perfect, The British Bulldog, Bret Hart and Roddy Piper were just jobbing every week because the IC title were being used on main eventers...

The titles and how they are being used is one of the major issues I have with the WWE right now, outside of their stars being underutilized.
 

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Maybe Dean could do more/have done more with the IC title if WWE would let him feud with somebody else rather than Miz lol. He's literally only feuded with him since he got drafted to Raw, and outside of that Corbin feud (which was meh) he's only feuded with Miz this ENTIRE year. I wish WWE would give Dean a fresh new feud with the title, but instead they'll take it from him and give it back to Miz, who's been in the title picture WAY too long, over a year :rolleyes:
 
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On Raw midcard is cruiserweight division or Crews, Titus O'Neal or Kalisto. On Smackdown the mid card is Luke Harper, Tye Dillinger, Mojo Rawley types. With the brand split the mid card isn't strong enough anymore to use the title there. Both shows and focusing on about 8 guys and shifting them between World or IC/US title. That is why guys contending for Us or IC could be contending for World a month or two later.
 

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Ambrose isnt really a top star anymore. Sure he gets occasional main events and multiple segments, and has some sort of star credibility and presence. But right now, he is an upper midcard.

Same with Owens,
The point is both Ambrose and Owens are established top of the card guys. Both have been World champion and main evented a number of ppvs the past year. So if Ambrose or Owens were in ppv main event or wrestling for the World Title 5 months from now. It wouldn't really shock anyone.



I think the OP means using IC or US title to build new or young talent to the top. Which will still happen. But right now with the brand split the rosters aren't deep enough to have build new guys all the time. So top guys will end up winning US or IC title. Then shift to World Title soon after. Personally I bet Reigns gets involved in IC Title stuff next. With Ambrose getting mentioned in World Title picture and feuding with Joe and Strowman.
 

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I agree. I really liked the way the US Title was used in the John Cena-JBL fight back in ’05. It really added fuel to the rivalry which came to an end at Wrestlemania.
 

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Do people really care about those titles? It just means you're the second best champ on your show. I wouldn't mind if they got rid of them since they no longer elevate anyone.

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nah you all wouldn't give a shadey fuck about the midcard belts if they were held by the likes of rawley and crews

what they should do is not push people to the main belt straight away, everything seems downhill after that
 

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Completely agreeing with the OP. When these established guys are holding that title, it always end up like looking like they're taking it for granted. And, most of the times, it gives a vibe that the wrestler got demoted from the main event to the mid cards , rather than indicating higher credibility to the title. This was justifiable however, when there was NO brand split and had only one World title. But now, it's lame to see these top guys holding the mid card belt, when you already have two World titles.

Ideally, in the current scenario, it should be contested by guys who are over, but not yet held a world title. I would put it like this.

IC: Samoa Joe, Braun Strowman, Apollo Crews, Big Cass, Cesaro and Elias Samson

US: Baron Corbin, Shinsuke Nakamura, Luke Harper, Mojo Rawley, Rusev and maybe Erick Rowan
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Do people really care about those titles? It just means you're the second best champ on your show. I wouldn't mind if they got rid of them since they no longer elevate anyone.

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That's my point. Maybe if they actually treated them as something special instead of just a prop people would care.


Completely agreeing with the OP. When these established guys are holding that title, it always end up like looking like they're taking it for granted. And, most of the times, it gives a vibe that the wrestler got demoted from the main event to the mid cards , rather than indicating higher credibility to the title. This was justifiable however, when there was NO brand split and had only one World title. But now, it's lame to see these top guys holding the mid card belt, when you already have two World titles.

Ideally, in the current scenario, it should be contested by guys who are over, but not yet held a world title. I would put it like this.

IC: Samoa Joe, Braun Strowman, Apollo Crews, Big Cass, Cesaro and Elias Samson

US: Baron Corbin, Shinsuke Nakamura, Luke Harper, Mojo Rawley, Rusev and maybe Erick Rowan
100% agreed. That's another part I left out in my OP. For example, a couple weeks ago when they had the #1 contenders match for the US title with Styles/Corbin/Zayn. Why would Styles even want to contend for the US title when he was just World champ for almost a year? If they presented the US title as a stepping stone to getting back to the World title, then sure. But they don't. It's just a meaningless prop at this point, especially when already established guys are holding them.
 
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