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I'm not saying this in a condescending way, i just don't get it.
- he doesn't have that wow factor to his moveset like a Ricochet, not much in the way of high flying moves, which a good percentage of guys his size or even bigger have mastered nowadays.
- his style isn't as believable as a Daniel Bryan's, moreover he frequently no sells.
- he does these submission holds but he's so small and skinny they hardly look devastating.

I'll give him his due, he has genuine likeability to him, It's not like Sami Zayn's forced likeability a couple years ago, but he's been featured way too prominently and when you look at It, he's been outperformed by guys like Andrade, Black, and Ricochet.
 

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He's a really good worker, possibly the best they have. And if you say he no sells everything, you should watch his matches with Almas, the match with Black, and the first two with Ciampa last year. His selling in those matches was great.

But this is very much a "what have you done for me lately business" and the problem is that since the second match with Ciampa (with the Black match excepted) he's been put in these increasingly ridiculous situations since then where he's playing this superman character that tanks everything but that just isn't who he is. Hopefully he can go back to what got him over in the first place now that it looks like he's done with NXT.
 

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F*** This indy flippy shit
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Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
 

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The Empire will Reign again
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17,221 Posts
Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Perfectly said. I liked Johnny Kickout more when he was in DIY, before he gained the survivability of the T-1000.

This video game wrestling is getting out of hand even compared to the last couple years, it used to be guy 1 gets hit with superkick, no-sells, hits guy 2 with lariat, then they both fall down and sell, in the beginning of the third fall Cole hit him with a pump kick, he bounced off the ropes, Cole hits him with a superkick, he bounced off the ropes again, hits Cole with a lariat, they both go down, Johnny immediately stands up and grabs a kendo stick, like WTF?!

WWE needs to impose health bars onto the screen so we can actually get a visual indicator that this shit is hurting them.
 

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Forever Blissful
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1,678 Posts
Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Uh.....you realize this ain't real right? Besides I like that aspect of Johnny, the never say die attitude that you can form an emotional attachment to the man.
 

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Pass. He’s one of these high spot, false finish guys that are killing the business.

Zero character, zero psychology, completely unrealistic and overly choreographed.

The guy is a 180lbs but can withstand a beating that would make Bruce Willis in Die Hard jealous. Adam Cole could have literally pulled out a gun and shot him and he’d kick out at 2.

They are both talented guys but the lack of psychology, selling and common sense just ruin their matches. If you took a drink every time someone threw a superkick or kicked out of a finisher, you’d be drunk off your ass.

Compare that to the NA title match. Velveteen Dream out there selling like a champ, incorporating his character into the match. Strong and Dunne are both Garganos size but they aren’t out there flipping all over the ring. Strong with some really nice looking striking offense. Pete Dunne’s entire moveset is great with the joint manipulation. Plus they incorporated Dunnes attack on the fingers into the psychology of the match by having his opponents not being able to fully utilize moves that require grip strength. When finishers were hit, only a ref stoppage broke the count, no false finish kickoff fest. Fucking excellent.

Hell Baszler vs Yim was a dud but at least they had good psychology selling the arm injury preventing Shayna from using the Kirafuda Clutch.

Tell a goddamn story that makes sense and get people invested in the match, don’t turn it into an overly choreographed gymnastics exhibition. Christ.
Yes I agree with nearly everything you said especially the great storytelling of Pete Dunne psychology used in the triple threat match. I just think in a kayfabe sense ever since what Johnny put himself through with Ciampa I think he just got more durable, and also that spot when he got himself DQ in the first fall of the match see back then he would have never did that but once again after the Ciampa all that change what I'M trying to say is that he grew as a character and is way more resilient to things now cause all the trauma he delt with in his past career in NXT. Like the ladder match he had with AOP and all those hardcore matches he had with Ciampa. But just my opinion what do you think?
 

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Scarring the Night Sky
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I'll give him his due, he has genuine likeability to him, It's not like Sami Zayn's forced likeability a couple years ago, but he's been featured way too prominently and when you look at It, he's been outperformed by guys like Andrade, Black, and Ricochet.
Really? Sami is actually naturally likable and feels like a "realistic" wrestler who plays the underdog babyface wrestler to perfection. If anything, Gargano is forced.
 

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Baby It's Violence
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I thought he played a great underdog firey babyface in plenty of other matches. He has amazing athleticism and ability, but just falls into the "lets just do moves" trope too often.

Hopefully he's getting a break or will feud with somebody different who won't bring the worst out of him like Cole does (no offense to Cole).
 

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Can he get over with his work rate in 4 minute television matches? Has he worked a match in NXT under 20 minutes since his Ciampa feud kicked off?

He's better off going to 205 Live where they work more the kickout spam style and he could get longer matches there.
 

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F*** This indy flippy shit
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Uh.....you realize this ain't real right? Besides I like that aspect of Johnny, the never say die attitude that you can form an emotional attachment to the man.
What!!!!! Wrestling isn't real!?!?!?!? No shit Sherlock.

You can still have a scripted fight that incorporates some realism and common sense so it doesn't look like we are watching a goddamn human video game.

There's a fine line between never say die attitude and utter non-sense and Gargano/Cole have crossed that line by a mile. When a guy takes a flipping piledriver off a ladder and kicks out, the match becomes a joke. Not to mention that set up for a lot of these high spots defy any reasonable definition of logic.
 

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Forever Blissful
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What!!!!! Wrestling isn't real!?!?!?!? No shit Sherlock.

You can still have a scripted fight that incorporates some realism and common sense so it doesn't look like we are watching a goddamn human video game.

There's a fine line between never say die attitude and utter non-sense and Gargano/Cole have crossed that line by a mile. When a guy takes a flipping piledriver off a ladder and kicks out, the match becomes a joke. Not to mention that set up for a lot of these high spots defy any reasonable definition of logic.
What is logic in wrestling? Seriously.
 

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The Empire will Reign again
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What is logic in wrestling? Seriously.
There are illogical things we accept in wrestling like an Irish whip, but there needs to be some logic or internal consistency or else the whole thing turns into a joke. If Rey Mysterio spent an entire match trying to body slam Braun you'd think that was fucking dumb, why because it's illogical for a guy to try to pick up someone three times his size, you wouldn't just go "lel wrestling".
 

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Forever Blissful
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There are illogical things we accept in wrestling like an Irish whip, but there needs to be some logic or internal consistency or else the whole thing turns into a joke. If Rey Mysterio spent an entire match trying to body slam Braun you'd think that was fucking dumb, why because it's illogical for a guy to try to pick up someone three times his size, you wouldn't just go "lel wrestling".
That I can agree with, but Johnny and Adam being made of figurative iron, that makes sense. High pain threshold.
 
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