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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Come on, what's the point of the WWE forcing wrestlers to work 300 nights a year with their body beat up night by night and with no time off, no health, and no union benefits whats so ever. Come on, they deserve a lot better than that. I know they are grown people but that doesn't mean they needed to be overworked to death. It's no wonder why so many of them are hooked into drugs to keep alive. WWE and pro-wrestling in general treated wrestlers like they are circus animals and prostitutes. Wrestlers should be allowed to be able to pursue their dreams of being pro wrestlers in other promotions. It's not their fault that the whole wrestling system is messed up. Just because you sign a contract doesn't mean that you should be overworked to death, regardless of what they knew before they signed it.

I mean i see pro-wrestling just use "wrestling" an an excuse for going on a circus travelling. Worse they are in entertainment business and not like real sports like the other where they had union/health benefits.
 

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Because with a union people start asking for benefits, then days off, then more money, etc. It also would force Vince to treat talent like people rather than money machines.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Because with a union people start asking for benefits, then days off, then more money, etc. It also would force Vince to treat talent like people rather than money machines.

Unless efficiently, the wrestlers don't need to be treated like some goddamn circus animals. The wrestlers need to be treated well but not unless when you have Vince McHitler in power.
 

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Come on, what's the point of the WWE forcing wrestlers to work 300 nights a year with their body beat up night by night and with time off, no health, and union benefits whats so ever. Come on, they deserve a lot better than that. I know they are grown people but that doesn't mean they needed to be overworked to death. It's no wonder why so many of them are hooked into drugs to keep alive. WWE and pro-wrestling in general treated wrestlers like they are circus animals and prostitutes. Wrestlers should be allowed to be able to pursue their dreams of being pro wrestlers in other promotions. It's not their fault that the whole wrestling system is messed up. Just because you sign a contract doesn't mean that you should be overworked to death, regardless of what they knew before they signed it.

I mean i see pro-wrestling just use "wrestling" an an excuse for going on a circus travelling. Worse they are in entertainment business and not like real sports like the other where they had union/health benefits.
Wrestling has a long, proud, tradition of promoters screwing over talent. Most promoters know that noone really cares about the plight of a bunch of over grown fake fightes, so there isn't much concern over a public backlash. Also since wrestling has always been run by a handful of influential men, it was easy to blackball performers if they tried to form a union. Now that WWE is basically the only game in town, it makes it that much easier for Vince McMahon to shrug and say "They're private contractors who agreed to the terms I laid out."
 

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A wrestling union would need to be started by the maineventers to have any worth, otherwise Vince would just fire anyone who started one or joined one, WWE contracts can be terminated by the WWE at any time. And none of the maineventers need a union.

WWE has been pretty good health-wise since Benoit, but still pays many wrestlers barely anything as travel costs come out of their paycheck, which really the WWE should be providing for. The maineventers are too busy getting private jets for themselves than fighting for the lower werestlers to have even economy class flights paid for.
 

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A wrestling union would need to be started by the maineventers to have any worth, otherwise Vince would just fire anyone who started one or joined one, WWE contracts can be terminated by the WWE at any time. And none of the maineventers need a union.
Exactly. Catch 22. The people with the power enough to start a union are the people who don't need one. It's a good idea, though; if a company wanted to pose a serious threat to WWE, having a union would be a great way to lure the better talent to your roster. I'd much rather work for somebody who treats me well and has my interests at heart, so I imagine that any new company offering this kind of system would - in the long term - end up greatly rewarded for treating its stars as people.
 

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A wrestling union would need to be started by the maineventers to have any worth, otherwise Vince would just fire anyone who started one or joined one, WWE contracts can be terminated by the WWE at any time. And none of the maineventers need a union.

WWE has been pretty good health-wise since Benoit, but still pays many wrestlers barely anything as travel costs come out of their paycheck, which really the WWE should be providing for. The maineventers are too busy getting private jets for themselves than fighting for the lower werestlers to have even economy class flights paid for.
Untrue. Even if the money for flights came out of their pockets, they would likely be reimbursed
 

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No one is forcing the wrestlers to work for the WWE or perform.
Look, nothing against you personally, but I fucking hate this attitude towards work in America. Somewhere along the line we decided that anyone with money is allowed to treat people anyway they please simply because they provide a paycheck.

Vince McMahon is providing them with a living, yes, but they're providing him with a living and his course of action is to do anything to depress the worth of their labor. These are guys with a highly specialized skill that he has driven into the ground, put them at genuine risk, and even shortened their lifespan. Why do you think so many wrestlers die young? He's poisoning the well he draws from and that isn't just wrong, it's not a particularly smart business move in the long run.

Vince McMahon is a businessman, and his aim is to make money, I understand that. But somewhere along the line it was decided that businessmen, since they are invested in the bottom line, are absolved from any sort of moral or ethical conundrums.

In the end, I suppose you're right. No one has put a gun to any of the wrestlers heads, they can walk away tomorrow, but what Vince McMahon has done is rig the game against people who make him shitloads of money. That's bad faith bargaining, and so I do hold Vince McMahon accountable for that.
 

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Come on, what's the point of the WWE forcing wrestlers to work 300 nights a year with their body beat up night by night and with time off, no health, and union benefits whats so ever. Come on, they deserve a lot better than that. I know they are grown people but that doesn't mean they needed to be overworked to death. It's no wonder why so many of them are hooked into drugs to keep alive. WWE and pro-wrestling in general treated wrestlers like they are circus animals and prostitutes. Wrestlers should be allowed to be able to pursue their dreams of being pro wrestlers in other promotions. It's not their fault that the whole wrestling system is messed up. Just because you sign a contract doesn't mean that you should be overworked to death, regardless of what they knew before they signed it.

I mean i see pro-wrestling just use "wrestling" an an excuse for going on a circus travelling. Worse they are in entertainment business and not like real sports like the other where they had union/health benefits.
I work as an independent contractor in the IT field, and I don't get any health benefits or belong to any union (I hate Unions personally, and think they should be abolished). If I wanted such things, I would get a job as a full-time employee, but I like working by the hour as a contractor. You don't see me whining about it.

If you want health coverage or to belong to a union there are plenty of jobs you can get.
 

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Unless efficiently, the wrestlers don't need to be treated like some goddamn circus animals. The wrestlers need to be treated well but not unless when you have Vince McHitler in power.
They're treated like independent contractors in any field. Only they are paid a fixed rate per month according to their contract rather than by the hour. If they want the benefits you speak of, they can get a job doing something else, but in most cases they'd make way less money, far more than those "benefits" are worth.
 

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The basic reason: Wrestling focuses on stars, the stars get paid more and are less likely to stick their neck out for the good of all wrestlers.

The anti-union crowd is hilarious, by the way.


No one is forcing the wrestlers to work for the WWE or perform.
No one would force the WWE to contract the union talent either. Your logic swings both ways. This isn't like a Walmart where there is very little talent involved. These wrestlers, much like NFL/NHL/NBA players have great leverage in that they're one of a kind talents in their field. Another common trait is that there's only ONE real league involved in those as well, yet they hold leverage just the same. WWE wrestlers could do it if they weren't so cutthroat with each other.
 

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The anti-union crowd is hilarious, by the way.
Almost as hilarious as the pro-union crowd. Unions were useful 100% years ago to fight for things like working conditions when many people were working in squalid conditions. There is no need for unions in the 21st century.
 

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Quite frankly, there's no union in pro-wrestling because nobody's ever had the balls to try and make a difference when they were in a key position. Jesse Ventura tried to start one when he was out of the game, when Hogan was the top dog but Hogan wouldn't agree to do it because he was McMahon's guy and he knew where his allegiances lay.
 

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Quite frankly, there's no union in pro-wrestling because nobody's ever had the balls to try and make a difference when they were in a key position. Jesse Ventura tried to start one when he was out of the game, when Hogan was the top dog but Hogan wouldn't agree to do it because he was McMahon's guy and he knew where his allegiances lay.
This is pretty much it IMO. No one with enough pull in the industry has ever tried to start one.
 

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Russo has talked about this in several shoots, but no one has picked up the ball. If guys like Cena, Orton, CM Punk, the Rock and Lesnar all could agree to do this, then something would happen. It has to be almost all the top guys in WWE and maybe TNA at once, or it will fail, and several people will loose their jobs.
 

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Almost as hilarious as the pro-union crowd. Unions were useful 100% years ago to fight for things like working conditions when many people were working in squalid conditions. There is no need for unions in the 21st century.
Right, because it's not like conditions would rapidly deteriorate once the unions were gone. For that to happen, businessmen would have to buy power in Washington, and we all know THAT never happens. It's not like there's a concerted effort on the part of business to remove safe guards, regulations, and wage standards, because that would require collusion, and we all know that business NEVER colludes against labor.

I have problems with unions, but if you honestly think that business will treat labor fairly without them, then I've got a company you can join.
 
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