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So who do you prefer?

  • Jim Cornette

    Votes: 37 50.0%
  • Paul Heyman

    Votes: 37 50.0%

  • Total voters
    74
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So if the mods don't want this poll so be it.

Both of them are smooth talkers who used their gifts to propel them into power makers in the industry. Both of them were kids of the industry who sought out every resource they could find. Both of them were mentored by the old territory guys, Heyman has admitted he ran to the paper guys each week for southern territory results, and Cornette took pictures for Jarrett at a very young age. Both men were mentored by Jarrett and Watts, But years later they found themselves head to head in the Original Midnight Express (Rose and Condrey) vs The Midnight Express (Eaton and Lane) feud that would forever link the two of them as young great minds.

Both men started their own failed territories and both men booked multiple companies based on limited success. Both men were on WWE creative.

Today they still have a voice.

So who do you prefer?

I for one would take Cornette any day all day because he fits my old school leanings, but that's just me.

I understand that Paul's ECW creation will probably win the poll, plus the fact that he still gets real air time with managing Brock. But Heyman to me, simply took an already established awesome southern weekly product to a tension starved northeast and added some mark out moments to make ECW. I mean the Northeast was used to the WWF's long programs. They had no clue what weekly booking was like. Cornette was steady and knew how to book weekly. He took a nothing territory like Smokey Mountain to years of success, and he actually paid his guys lol. I can admit Paul E's ECW was cant miss booking and it featured some great talent. Plus he actually had the "balls" to get his fan to chant "southern style sucks" which was the actual style they were running, therefore trying to make it their own. But Cornette stuck to his leanings and produced some great talent in Smokey Mountain.

But let's be truthful they both learned from Jarrett and took the Tennessee style.

But both are still present in wrestling. So chose one?
 

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100% agree with you. I've become a bit of a mark for Cornette recently, just given how spot-on he is about so much to do with wrestling. The man was even made prophetic predictions in the past. Heyman is probably going to win for all those reasons you mentioned, but I agree with your assessment too. So much of ECW was smoke and mirrors, which is part of the game and deserves commendation to a degree, but there were lots of things that don't hold up from that period too. Honestly, I think Smoky Mountain Wrestling has held up better because it seems to stick to some core principles that endear it as wrestling, as opposed to dating it in a moment of time.

Heyman's got a great mind that he tries to keep contemporary, but he's not very good at running promotions to profit, haha. He'd be a great consultant or someone that you use to spike a territory, but over the long term he's probably going to lose the audience he brings in, as well as chase off that audience you have at the start. Both are brilliant performers. Would love to see them give it another go any day of the week, as much as neither really seems to have the intention to.
 

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Cornette for me, mainly because I didn't get ECW, it was on a cable channel but we didn't always have cable and I was never really looking for it anyways. Cornette is one of my favourite people to listen to, even though he is a bit ridiculous.
 
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I prefer Heyman, but it has less to do with Cornette, who I also really like, than it has to do with my age. I grew up watching Heyman, that's a tough bias to beat.

Cornette is no doubt one of the GOAT managers and one of the great wrestling minds, I just have more of a personal connection to Heyman.
Really glad to see Cornette getting a lot of respect in this thread. Kind of expected more of a wash for Heyman. I like your honesty is assessing, and really that personal bias is going to go into it. I love how much Cornette sticks to his guns, but I do think it's to wrestling's detriment that more people aren't going to have that familiarity with Cornette, and are just going to see him through the false lens of the internet of him being an out of touch old guy.

I suspect more and more people will just be more familiar with Heyman. Which isn't a knock on Heyman, other than maybe his willingness to accept a WWE paycheck to keep quiet and not think too much about where wrestling is heading, haha.
 

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Cornette.

I preferred ECW over SMW but I still love Cornette on screen today. He's still awesome on the mic and does passionate promos without shouting. I enjoyed his manager runs and loved his GM roles in TNA. I also find myself agreeing with alot of what he says in his podcasts about wrestling.

On the other hand, Heymam is still a great manager but he gets stale very quick as he's been with Lesnar to long now. His promos end up with shouting and trying to be 'to real.' And his pairings with Cesaro, Axel & Ryback sucked. Ok not the top guys, but heyman didnt really reinvent himself in those role and stayed the same style as his Lesnar promos.
 

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Firstly, that is an excellent OP. When I saw the title I did worry it would be biased to one guy or the other but fair play you gave a nice recap of each guy.

I've picked cornette because basically I'm an old school wrestling fan more now than I've ever been. I want to like the contemporary stuff, but I feel they've forgotten basic wrestling tenants that are universal even today.

Also, his recall of facts and he seems to written everything down in books(if you've listened to his podcast with the deep dives, it's the dates and payoffs he records) and the contracts and stuff he kept. In a business known at times for embellishment, he stands out.

Now paul heyman is clearly one of the greats in wrestling history from a mind perspective. He just seems to have never been good with money. His time as head writer for smackdown shows how good he is, when not having to deal with the bottom line. I still rewatch that time period now.
 

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I'll have to go with Paul Heymen, Heymen was always one who was able to catputre trends. ECW, him wanting to turn ECW into basically early ROH before it shut down (That 's what I heard anyway), and his ideas about getting everyone over are great. Cornette as far more set in his ways and can fail to adapt (Ala ROH) which can cause problems. Like listening to both about their ideas and views but Heymen seems like someone who would be more successful in reality.

But as a manger, Cornette all the way baby.
 

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I can't really choose.

One of Cornette's biggest flaws is one of Heyman's biggest strengths - Cornette sometimes struggles to be receptive to new trends or the opinions of the young, while Heyman happily & openly relies on such things.

Cornette is a great booker and has one of the very best wretling minds out there. I'm not sure the same is entirely true for Paul, but just like his ECW creation, he gets over that by compensating for his flaws and magnifying his strengths.

I think if you put the two of them together then you've got something pretty formidable, if Jim was able to get over himself and work with someone instead of against them.
 

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why not both?

Love both of them but Heyman edges for me. Tho I have to admit Cornette has been way more entertaining with his podcast than Heyman has been with his promos this past couple years.
 

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I'll have to go with Paul Heymen, Heymen was always one who was able to catputre trends. ECW, him wanting to turn ECW into basically early ROH before it shut down (That 's what I heard anyway), and his ideas about getting everyone over are great. Cornette as far more set in his ways and can fail to adapt (Ala ROH) which can cause problems. Like listening to both about their ideas and views but Heymen seems like someone who would be more successful in reality.

But as a manger, Cornette all the way baby.
Cornette's plans for ROH are basically what NXT has become. Where Corny went wrong with ROH was trying to standardize the product in order to try and give it more appeal by losing some of the irony. It's a good idea, in theory, until you piss off your fans by doing it, haha. Corny was right, but he just comes from an era where bookers would dictate direction, and wasn't ready for one where fans thought that they should be serviced and take ownership over the product (something Heyman cultivated and was more apt to handle).

Corny tells a hilarious story about how he wrote himself off ROH on-air because the fans were revolting, then they planned out the show as they normally would, and because the fans thought that Corny wasn't involved, they said it was instantly better.
 

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Those Cornette promos on Raw around 1997/1998 were pure gold. I missed them at the time, but going back, I would have thought he was the coolest motherfucker in wrestling the way he completely eviscerated the nWo, etc.

"Hogan, it's true you might be a household word, but so is 'garbage,' and that stinks when it gets old too."

Fucking ouch.
 

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I wouldn't want to work for either, as a matter of fact I would likely end up assaulting them after Paul tries to work his way out of to pay me for the millionth time and Corny threatnens to kill me for triggering his autism

but I choose Heyman since besides being an Economic moron and a shady fucker he created ECW and influenced the 90's greatly , without him many of my favourite guys and Gimmicks and Storylines would never have happened not just in ECW but also WWF and WCW
 

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It depends in what capacity. I appreciate Cornette's knack for understanding fundamental wrestling psychology and expressing it articulately. His ROH Secrets of the Ring DVD was especially insightful in this regard. On the other hand, his fantasy booking scenario for the Invasion angle on Kayfabe Commentaries is some of the most cringe-worthy shit I've ever sat through, so I seriously question his storytelling abilities outside of the in-ring fundamentals.


Heyman seems far more contemporary, and he has more of a pulse on popular culture. He adapts very well to his surroundings without seeming too antiquated. He's less of a hothead and a far better manipulator. He also has a reputation for motivating talent and accentuating their strengths / hiding their flaws.


As business men, both failed pretty hard. Heyman failed on a bigger scale, and was hindered by his own content not being easily accessible to a mainstream audience. Cornette failed with SMW, which was relatively under the radar. I wouldn't trust ether to manage my promotion.


If I were hiring, I'd assign Cornette as an agent for helping to put together matches, while I'd keep Heyman around as a creative consultant. Granted, I'm not sure I'd trust ether of them not to stooge off information to dirtsheet reporters.


But as a manger, Cornette all the way baby.

I'm conflicted about this, personally. I used to hate him as a kid (not even in a fun way), and found him to be the most annoying / obnoxious / migrane-inducing person walking the earth. I'm not exactly sure if "please fuck off" heat is the hallmark of a great heel manager, but he succeeded in getting an emotional response out of me which is more than I can say about most managers around that time.


Heyman was a cooler heel manager. He probably wasn't as effective as a heat-getter by virtue of being annoying, but he always got your attention and properly sold his subject. He's the type of heel manager that ultimately swayed you to root for anti-heroes. He, much like Cornette, knew how to get under your skin when the time called for it, but also managed to flip the heel / face dynamic in the process on several occations. That can be seen as a positive or a negative, depending on the context.
 

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cornette

a lot of what worked then still works now re. the basics of wrestling psychology, in-ring and out

heyman has been treading water doing the same promo for the past 5 years, puts a bit of a dent in his legacy IMO. everyone falls over themselves to toss themselves off that he's 'working you into a shoot BROTHER' etc, but it's gotten predictable

ecw was a product of it's time, some of it hasn't aged great. likewise the attitude era. oddly enough, cornette's heel/promo work as a manager from before those holds up better, as does smackdown from 02-03 w/ heyman before steph properly got her claws into it

also, I thought cornette was basically retired? still does his podcast + keeps up the historical stuff obviously, but retired in as much as he doesn't/isn't/won't work full time for a company anymore
 

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As a person? Heyman every time, Cornette's a proper arsehole in all honesty and may need to get mental health assistance.

As a performer? Cornette, he was a better manager for me than Heyman in the way he got heat for the wrestlers where I think Heyman gets himself over more than any of his clients in all honesty. Cornette for me was a great manager regardless of who he's managing where Heyman hasn't been that great for anybody who isn't Brock in a long time. As promoters I prefer Heyman's product than Cornette's but I think Cornette was a better promoter in general who knew what he was doing more. It comes down to being a relevant but bad promoter in Heyman who had a cool product but piss-poor management skills or being a great promoter with a dated product like Cornette did with SMW.
 

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I don't really care for either me as people.... Cornette is insane. The man who wants to out live Russo so he can piss on his grave. That's pretty sad.

Heyman is one of the biggest bullshitters in the business. But it's pro wrestling so fair game.

I only got I to wrestling in the early 2000s, so I only really saw Paul as a performer. I mostly remember him as the GM on Smackdown and WWECW. And obviously his modern persona with Brock. Which was cool in the beginning but is pretty old now.

I've mostly Cornette through interviews. His stories and rants are entertaining.
 

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I'm conflicted about this, personally. I used to hate him as a kid (not even in a fun way), and found him to be the most annoying / obnoxious / migrane-inducing person walking the earth. I'm not exactly sure if "please fuck off" heat is the hallmark of a great heel manager, but he succeeded in getting an emotional response out of me which is more than I can say about most managers around that time.


Heyman was a cooler heel manager. He probably wasn't as effective as a heat-getter by virtue of being annoying, but he always got your attention and properly sold his subject. He's the type of heel manager that swayed you to root for anti-heroes.

You hit the nail on the head. Cornette excels at getting heat and whilst he was a good promo, Heymen was the more entertaining (though Cornette wasn't suppose to be in theory) and was better at speaking for the person.

I guess the only way I can put this is that Heymen was a better spokesperson whereas Cornette was a better heater.
 
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